Problems with Vaccines.. past and present.

[OwnRules]

I'm going to ignore the 2nd part of your obvious attempt to deflect ( when you dont have a valid argument , whip out the " R" word)

but lets elaborate on this first part a little more .
Where exactly is my premise flawed ?
Are you saying that LESS EDUCATED people have a higher degree of understanding of the SCIENCES, therefore they made the right decisions to get Vaccinated , en masse ?


Fascinating ..

Explain it to me slowly

The faulty premise is accepting that people that refuse to get vaccinated are "more educated" than those who chose to get their vaccines - clearly, it isn't so. And the racist part is your conclusion comparing people who get their shots with African tribes trading for trinkets or not knowing how condoms work. What they are doing is listening to the experts and following through on their recommendations - as opposed to becoming 'experts' by listening to a few quacks on social media with their silver bullets such as cattle dewormer.

Fact: The idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid despite things like, knowledge, education and proficiency with the subject matter is literally deadly. As Dirty Harry once said, "a man's gotta know his limitations."

As for the "slow" part, you may read this post as many times as you'd like while mouthing the words if that helps.

 

[OwnRules]

Despite the disinformation prevalent in the anti-vaxx camp, vaccines are working well in preventing ICU stays and deaths:

How do COVID infections differ in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated people?

A CDC study using data collected before the delta variant became the dominant version of the coronavirus in the U.S. found that fully or partially vaccinated people had about a 60% lower risk of developing symptoms, such as fever or chills, compared to the unvaccinated when infected.

Some of the nearly 4,000 health care workers in the study who were vaccinated didn’t develop symptoms at all.

If they did, symptoms were shorter-lived — about 10 days long compared to about 17 days for the unvaccinated. That includes an average of two fewer sick days in bed.

The data confirms the vaccines are doing “exactly what they were supposed to do: prevent severe disease, hospitalization and death,” CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said during a White House COVID-19 briefing on Monday.

As of July 26, when more than 163 million people in the U.S. had been fully vaccinated, the CDC reported 6,587 people with breakthrough infections among the vaccinated who were sick enough to die or be hospitalized.

A total of 1,293 of them have died. That’s less than 0.001% of those who had been fully vaccinated at the time.

 

[NanSanPedro]

Despite the disinformation prevalent in the anti-vaxx camp, vaccines are working well in preventing ICU stays and deaths:

Where exactly is the anti-vaxx camp? Is it in the mountains? Do I need to bring a sleeping bag? Will we roast hot dogs and marshmallows? Are there lions and tigers and bears? Oh my!

 

[SKY]

Where exactly is the anti-vaxx camp? Is it in the mountains? Do I need to bring a sleeping bag? Will we roast hot dogs and marshmallows? Are there lions and tigers and bears? Oh my!

Two people get Covid. One is vaccinated and the other is in the Anti-Vax camp in the mountains.

The one who is vaccinated goes home, maybe has a slight fever for a few days, maybe a cough, or maybe nothing. A week later he is back to normal.

The genius that opted for “freedom? Gets a trip to the ICU ward at his favorite hospital. Ends up on a ventilator and gets the freedom to be buried wherever the family wishes......................







s.

 

[NanSanPedro]

Two people get Covid. One is vaccinated and the other is in the Anti-Vax camp in the mountains.

The one who is vaccinated goes home, maybe has a slight fever for a few days, maybe a cough, or maybe nothing. A week later he is back to normal.

The genius that opted for “freedom? Gets a trip to the ICU ward at his favorite hospital. Ends up on a ventilator and gets the freedom to be buried wherever the family wishes......................







s.

So your data say that if you get the Wuhan Flu, you are assured of ending up on a ventilator?

Enjoy your alt.universe. I'm sure it's very cozy there.

 

[SKY]

So your data say that if you get the Wuhan Flu, you are assured of ending up on a ventilator?

Enjoy your alt.universe. I'm sure it's very cozy there.

No, but you are 100 times more likely to die if you are not vaccinated than someone who is.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), approximately 99.5% of COVID-19 deaths in the United States are among unvaccinated people.

I'm Vaccinated. Can I Still Get COVID?

It's rare but possible. Unvaccinated make up vast majority of cases.

www.scripps.org

 

[cavok]

Breakthrough infections but NO breakthrough deaths. Big difference you would think............................

Not true. While the vaccines are doing a very good job at preventing hospitalizations and deaths, there have been some breakthrough deaths with this Delta variant. I'm guessing they were probably among older patients with underlying conditions(?).

 

[cavok]

Despite the disinformation prevalent in the anti-vaxx camp, vaccines are working well in preventing ICU stays and deaths:

That's a well reported fact and has been stated here many times.

 

[Big]

the statistics are still that 70% of the people that die from covid are the obese. So fat people beware. So if you dont want the vax, just cut down on the Doritos and get some exercise. Mix in smoking cessation and cutting back on the beer at NASCAR events and you should be OK

 

[playacaribe2]

Not true. While the vaccines are doing a very good job at preventing hospitalizations and deaths, there have been some breakthrough deaths with this Delta variant. I'm guessing they were probably among older patients with underlying conditions(?).

Excactly on the NOT true part.

As to the other;

Indonesian Covid deaths add to questions over Sinovac vaccine

Health experts asking if medics should get other jabs after 10 fully vaccinated doctors die in June

www.theguardian.com

Here is but one example.

Those that did die were victims of the placebo-like Si No Vac.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[melphis]

Excactly on the NOT true part.

As to the other;

Indonesian Covid deaths add to questions over Sinovac vaccine

Health experts asking if medics should get other jabs after 10 fully vaccinated doctors die in June

www.theguardian.com

Here is but one example.

Those that did die were victims of the placebo-like Si No Vac.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

If the used a placebo it's very likely that it 0% of any type of medicine or vaccine in it.

 

[cavok]

Excactly on the NOT true part.

As to the other;

Indonesian Covid deaths add to questions over Sinovac vaccine

Health experts asking if medics should get other jabs after 10 fully vaccinated doctors die in June

www.theguardian.com

Here is but one example.

Those that did die were victims of the placebo-like Si No Vac.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

There are plenty of reports of fully vaccinated people with the other vaccines dying from coronavirus. They are not 100% perfect.

 

[NanSanPedro]

No, but you are 100 times more likely to die if you are not vaccinated than someone who is.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), approximately 99.5% of COVID-19 deaths in the United States are among unvaccinated people.

I'm Vaccinated. Can I Still Get COVID?

It's rare but possible. Unvaccinated make up vast majority of cases.

www.scripps.org

We are all going to die. I don't get the flu vax and I'm not getting the Wuhan vax. Not really up for discussion.

If you want it, fine.

 

[melphis]

We are all going to die. I don't get the flu vax and I'm not getting the Wuhan vax. Not really up for discussion.

If you want it, fine.

I agree. Its your body, your choice. No one should ever be allowed to chose what you do to your own body regardless of the issue. (assuming you are of sound mind)

 

[playacaribe2]

There are plenty of reports of fully vaccinated people with the other vaccines dying from coronavirus. They are not 100% perfect.

Yes there are. It would be helpful to see the worldwide stats on the breakthrough cases resulting in death..........and which vaccine seems to work...........and which ones are more placebo-like.

We already have tacit admission by the Chinese that Si No Vac may not be that effective......in spite of the fun with numbers put out by the various studies that were funded by the Chinese.

Si No Vac was, and still is, part of their vaccine world diplomacy............even if the high ranking officials of the Chinese gobernment were not vaccinated with Si No Vac.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[windeguy]

Why right here on DR1. Lots of posts referencing/supporting mandatory vaccinations. Perhaps you might want to read some of them. The search button is a good place to start.

The good news is it will surely not happen in the US…….and likely not in the DR too……but for different reasons.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

In my home country where Biden is POTUS, the Pfizer vaccine was just fully approved, it will mandate that all military and federal employees be vaccinated.
AND, a big AND, sanctions are being threatened upon large businesses that do not require their employees to be vaccinated.

All this while the list of cities requiring vaccinations to enter bars, restaurants, stadiums, etc. is growing.

The US formally entered the two tiered society. Will the DR?

 

[cavok]

Yes there are. It would be helpful to see the worldwide stats on the breakthrough cases resulting in death..........and which vaccine seems to work...........and which ones are more placebo-like.

None are placebo-like. They all are very good in preventing hospitalization and death.

We already have tacit admission by the Chinese that Si No Vac may not be that effective......in spite of the fun with numbers put out by the various studies that were funded by the Chinese.

We already know from clinical trials that Sinovac has a lower efficacy than the others - at least in some trials/countries.

Si No Vac was, and still is, part of their vaccine world diplomacy............even if the high ranking officials of the Chinese gobernment were not vaccinated with Si No Vac.

How would anyone know with any degree of certainty what CCP members are, or not, taking?

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[playacaribe2]

In my home country where Biden is POTUS, the Pfizer vaccine was just fully approved, it will mandate that all military and federal employees be vaccinated.
AND, a big AND, sanctions are being threatened upon large businesses that do not require their employees to be vaccinated.

All this while the list of cities requiring vaccinations to enter bars, restaurants, stadiums, etc. is growing.

The US formally entered the two tiered society. Will the DR?

They (Penatgon) is considering it................meaning they are weighing/testing just how to implement it without a mass exodus of military personnel. This is a very big issue amongst the soldiers;

Thousands of service members saying no to Covid vaccine

Some Army units are seeing as few as one-third agree to the vaccine.

www.nbcnews.com

And as big an issue amongst employers. A recent piece on Bloomberg TV said a 10% resignation/dismissal rate for refusing to be vaccinated is the threshold to do severe damage to the ability of companies to operate/compete successfully.

It certainly may become a two tiered society..................and this will wreak havoc financially/economically................because no matter how many employer/government mandates are issued................they will likely never ever get full compliance.

And I certain there will never ever be any mandatory vaccinations forced onto the people in the US.....................at least not as long as the Constitution exists in its current form.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[playacaribe2]

None are placebo-like. They all are very good in preventing hospitalization and death.

And I respect your opinion and disagree.

We already know from clinical trials that Sinovac has a lower efficacy than the others - at least in some trials/countries.

Yes it does.............likely much lower than reported by the agencies funded by the Chinese government.

How would anyone know with any degree of certainty what CCP members are, or not, taking?

I posted the link in either this or one of the other forums that indicated that high level politicians were all given Sinopharm............not Si No Vac. I believe the link may have been to either a quote from a government official or to the "Global Times" a Chinese Communist Party controlled media outlet.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[windeguy]

Thankfully their is no tyranny of the majority as recognized by de Tocqueville, Madison and others.

Your last sentence solidifies their reasoning for wanting to guard against it.

No vaccine, past present or future should ever be forced on those who do not want it…..especially those that do not have full approval.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

In my home country , all military are required to be vaccinated by September 15. Period.
One place, for now, where vaccines will be forced in my homeland. There are more coming, as I see it.