Bio-Ethical Questions

[It wasn't me]

I assume doctors everywhere must take the Hippocratic oath derived from Greece ?
So there should be no doubt that they should not bar treatment.
It is only because of politics that they have been shaped, threatened, literally had financial cudgels hung over their heads, denied hospital access or had licenses threatened that they would come to any other conclusion that to administer to the sick.

The World will look back soon to regret many actions taken in this scamdemic

The Hippocratic Oath (Modern Version)​

I SWEAR in the presence of the Almighty and before my family, my teachers and my peers that according to my ability and judgment I will keep this Oath and Stipulation.
TO RECKON all who have taught me this art equally dear to me as my parents and in the same spirit and dedication to impart a knowledge of the art of medicine to others. I will continue with diligence to keep abreast of advances in medicine. I will treat without exception all who seek my ministrations, so long as the treatment of others is not compromised thereby, and I will seek the counsel of particularly skilled physicians where indicated for the benefit of my patient.
I WILL FOLLOW that method of treatment which according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patient and abstain from whatever is harmful or mischievous. I will neither prescribe nor administer a lethal dose of medicine to any patient even if asked nor counsel any such thing nor perform the utmost respect for every human life from fertilization to natural death and reject abortion that deliberately takes a unique human life.
WITH PURITY, HOLINESS AND BENEFICENCE I will pass my life and practice my art. Except for the prudent correction of an imminent danger, I will neither treat any patient nor carry out any research on any human being without the valid informed consent of the subject or the appropriate legal protector thereof, understanding that research must have as its purpose the furtherance of the health of that individual. Into whatever patient setting I enter, I will go for the benefit of the sick and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief or corruption and further from the seduction of any patient.
WHATEVER IN CONNECTION with my professional practice or not in connection with it I may see or hear in the lives of my patients which ought not be spoken abroad, I will not divulge, reckoning that all such should be kept secret. WHILE I CONTINUE to keep this Oath unviolated may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art and science of medicine with the blessing of the Almighty and respected by my peers and society, but should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse by my lot.

It's not only out of date but in many places it is either optional or not done at all, and it is also not legally binding.

 

[It wasn't me]

Post a recent link to your 'overrun" statistics

Now why would Sky have to post a link for something that; is common knowledge, easily corroborated yourself with a quick search, and were not his words in the first place. That was WW paraphrasing Windy. Do try and keep up old boy LOL

 

[It wasn't me]

You are incorrect my angry brother. A hospital can't practice one set of medical ethics for one demographic and one for another. All patients must be triaged in the same fashion, with the same set of ethical standards. NSP's point is 100% valid.

Hugs!

Since Covid is well documented to gravely affect one's organs, and otherwise greatly contribute to one's ill health, it is clearly a contributing factor to many deaths. The many I know in the medical field have told me that they look at it through the lens of "if the patient hadn't had covid would they likely have died?" If the answer is no then it's clear how covid contributes to not only overloaded hospitals but to deaths.

If someone come in through Emergency with a broken leg and ends up succumbing to covid what would you call it? The point is that you are lower on the list since your chances of survival is reduced as is the probable length of your life. Those who have covid could well be put lover on the list regardless of vaccine status and those known to be unvaccinated even more so since they are 6, 9, 12 or however many times more likely to require hospitalization and ICU in the first place.

 

[It wasn't me]

Since Covid is well documented to gravely affect one's organs, and otherwise greatly contribute to one's ill health, it is clearly a contributing factor to many deaths. The many I know in the medical field have told me that they look at it through the lens of "if the patient hadn't had covid would they likely have died?" If the answer is no then it's clear how covid contributes to not only overloaded hospitals but to deaths.

If someone come in through Emergency with a broken leg and ends up succumbing to covid what would you call it? The point is that you are lower on the list since your chances of survival is reduced as is the probable length of your life. Those who have covid could well be put lover on the list regardless of vaccine status and those known to be unvaccinated even more so since they are 6, 9, 12 or however many times more likely to require hospitalization and ICU in the first place.

damn timer LOL...

And therefore have a shorter life expectancy. No "discrimination" or whatever. Just Triage protocols. In case there is any doubt it's been like this for about 2 years, it's just not advertised

 

[chico bill]

Now why would Sky have to post a link for something that; is common knowledge, easily corroborated yourself with a quick search, and were not his words in the first place. That was WW paraphrasing Windy. Do try and keep up old boy LOL

Then you post the link. Go ahead if that's so easy. It is one of the mods' rules to post links to "facts".
Waiting.....

 

[chico bill]

It's not only out of date but in many places it is either optional or not done at all, and it is also not legally binding.

Still recognized by AMA and WMA

 

[It wasn't me]

Then you post the link. Go ahead if that's so easy. It is one of the mods' rules to post links to "facts".
Waiting.....

I'll never be doing your work there CB. Please, DO, hold your breath waiting! LOL

P.S. Read the rulings, they vary but unless you're quoting an article there is no need for a link. In other words they don't try and force people to link to things supporting opinions, even though without support opinions have far less, if any, value. Like all of yours.

P.P.S. Posting links from know poor sources just reenforces how useless such opinions and links are.

 

[It wasn't me]

Still recognized by AMA and WMA

Not binding = no teeth.

 

[chico bill]

Mandates becoming less popular by the minute

Brussels: Cops Clash with Protesters at 50K Strong Anti-Vax Pass Rally

Police in Brussels clashed with protestors during a 50,000 strong demonstration against coronavirus restrictions and mandatory vaccinations.

www.breitbart.com

 

[chico bill]

I'll never be doing your work there CB. Please, DO, hold your breath waiting! LOL

P.S. Read the rulings, they vary but unless you're quoting an article there is no need for a link. In other words they don't try and force people to link to things supporting opinions, even though without support opinions have far less, if any, value. Like all of yours.

P.P.S. Posting links from know poor sources just reenforces how useless such opinions and links are.

So it was just "opinion" that DR hospitals are overrun by Covid energencys?
OK my opinion is they are not over run.
Go to a hospital - have a look.
Your sky-is-falling is fake news.

 

[chico bill]

I

You are WAY off ! Nowhere near 75% of the world is fully vaccinated. Not even close

Only 62% of the world has received at least one dose. Fully vaccinated are closer to 50% in the world

The other 38% of course, should be put aside if they get CV19.

Tracking Coronavirus Vaccinations Around the World (Published 2023)

More than 5.55 billion people worldwide have received a Covid-19 vaccine, equal to about 72.3 percent of the world population.

www.nytimes.com

The next debate we can have is how those with 4 vaccinations but had the last one over 6 months ago are no longer fully vaccinated
and they need more or they will be considered unvaccinated.

But wait, that is me... Right now!

And half the world is still not fully vaccinated, nor will they ever be.

No as they called it in Fortran - stuck in a do-loop

 

[fuchs4d]

It's a very serious question they present here - with no definitive answer

The definite answer in the DR and most part of the world is simple: money.

Besides: Now that we see soccer games where as many as 3 players get sudden and unexpectes heart problems, what are the rules of whom to help first when all look pretty much the same and are of same age and gender and no financial or social score immidiatly available?
In the near futue, probably the artificial intelligence will help in quick decisions like that as soon as the social score management is outsourced to companies like google and Facebook. The privatly gathered social score could also be used for autonomus driving to figure out who should survive an accident that can not be avoided anymore.

For today the key factor is money available today. In the future it is "the sum of money a person could possible spent on amazon and for google in his expected life span".

Alexander

 

[william webster]

A doctor willfully failing or refusing to treat a patient would be dealt with by the laws in each country.
Of course when nothing can be done because of limited supplies priorities are made and as you point out there is nothing new about
that and very little more to discuss in that event.

.

You're talking in the extreme Windy.
The issue at hand here is not 'treat or not treat' but in what order to to treat, as opposed to the conventional norm of all being treated equally...
as in the case mentioned - suicide bomber

 

[william webster]

For those of touting money as a driving factor in health care -

How is would that be addressed in socialized medicine countries ?

 

[NanSanPedro]

For those of touting money as a driving factor in health care -

How is would that be addressed in socialized medicine countries ?

more subtly

 

[windeguy]

OK so instead of 1 out of 4 people that are UNVACCINATED, we have 2 out of 5 UNVACCINATED people filling up Hospitals. I stand corrected..........................

With this significant additional set of details as an additional correction, if you will.

The vaccines fade over time, science tells us, so that number of fully vaccinated is already more than 2 out of 5 since many will have been vaccinated more than 6 months ago. And that number is based upon not being fully vaccinated, but only one injection.

About half the world isn't fully vaccinated so the number is 1 out of 2, or 50%, in the world that are not fully vaccinated and that ratio will increase over time as vaccines fade and people either don't get boosters for various reasons.

Science tells us variants become more contagious and more likely to escape influence from vaccines as they mutate while the likelihood of being less deadly is also normal. Rarely do they become more deadly. Take Omicron , for example, which may or may not cause the world to reach peak CV19 and move on. This will cause people to be less likely to get vaccinated or boosted.

We have learned that fully vaccinating the world within a few months is impossible. So CV19 is here, there and everywhere to stay because of that very reason if not others as well. Like poor countries not getting vaccines at all.

And in regards to this thread: Doctors who give priority to only those with previous vaccinations (if they were 6 months or more ago) are making an arbitrary decision not based upon good science as I see it. Doctors who make a decision to treat based upon vaccination status are making a bad decision in any event since only half the world is fully vaccinated and that will increase over time.

 

[windeguy]

For those of touting money as a driving factor in health care -

How is would that be addressed in socialized medicine countries ?

Going to the US for treatment from Canada as one example.

In a couple of months, I think this is going to be a moot point as peak CV19 should be "here" soon.

 

[chico bill]

Not binding = no teeth.

Like liberal's promises on everything !

With this significant additional set of details as an additional correction, if you will.

The vaccines fade over time, science tells us, so that number of fully vaccinated is already more than 2 out of 5 since many will have been vaccinated more than 6 months ago. And that number is based upon not being fully vaccinated, but only one injection.

About half the world isn't fully vaccinated so the number is 1 out of 2, or 50%, in the world that are not fully vaccinated and that ratio will increase over time as vaccines fade and people either don't get boosters for various reasons.

Science tells us variants become more contagious and more likely to escape influence from vaccines as they mutate while the likelihood of being less deadly is also normal. Rarely do they become more deadly. Take Omicron , for example, which may or may not cause the world to reach peak CV19 and move on. This will cause people to be less likely to get vaccinated or boosted.

We have learned that fully vaccinating the world within a few months is impossible. So CV19 is here, there and everywhere to stay because of that very reason if not others as well. Like poor countries not getting vaccines at all.

And in regards to this thread: Doctors who give priority to only those with previous vaccinations (if they were 6 months or more ago) are making an arbitrary decision not based upon good science as I see it. Doctors who make a decision to treat based upon vaccination status are making a bad decision in any event since only half the world is fully vaccinated and that will increase over time.

Good points Windy.
So let's accept the virus is not going away no matter how much someone vaxes, boosts or does the Hokey Pokey

Question for the Vax-Stasi: How many boosters will you get ?
CDC is changing its guidelines to say 2+ a booster is fully vaxed, Canada too. Israel says 2 + 2 boosters

I would like to hear the vaxaholics raise their hand and say they will blindly accept whatever is defined as fully vaxed and will you accept 2, 3 or 5 boosters.
How about 6 boosters over the next 2more years. Let's have an honest answer ?

I am two and done. I believed the hype but can't be fooled now that data shows the vaccines aren't effective and in fact can be detrimental

 

[chico bill]

Going to the US for treatment from Canada as one example.

In a couple of months, I think this is going to be a moot point as peak CV19 should be "here" soon.

Cases are falling. The peak has already come and gone

 

[windeguy]

Like liberal's promises on everything !

Good points Windy.
So let's accept the virus is not going away no matter how much someone vaxes, boosts or does the Hokey Pokey

Question for the Vax-Stasi: How many boosters will you get ?
CDC is changing its guidelines to say 2+ a booster is fully vaxed, Canada too. Israel says 2 + 2 boosters

I would like to hear the vaxaholics raise their hand and say they will blindly accept whatever is defined as fully vaxed and will you accept 2, 3 or 5 boosters.
How about 6 boosters over the next 2more years. Let's have an honest answer ?

I am two and done. I believed the hype but can't be fooled now that data shows the vaccines aren't effective and in fact can be detrimental

I am waiting for governments to enforce time limits upon vaccine "expirations" for travel. Even then I might not travel until such a rule goes away. That is the only way I might be forced to get a 5th shot. Otherwise I am 4 and done.