Time to wake up you apathetic Dominicans!

Robert

Robert

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I have been going on about this for years, how apathetic good Dominicans are when it comes to the problems, blatant corruption, crime etc here.

It's good to see Adriano Miguel Tejada one of the more respected locals standing up and calling out all those apathetic "good Dominicans" out.

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The executive editor of Diario Libre urges "good Dominicans" to come forward and take a more active role in Dominican public affairs. He said there is a general wave of apathy that has penetrated the collective Dominican psyche and is making us believe that nothing can be done here, that nothing works and that Dominicans are just despicable and shameless. He comments this can be perceived even in the questions journalists ask at press conferences. "There is not even a hint of trying to find the good side of things."
"And it's not as if we shouldn't denounce what is bad, but there should be an intention of correcting, not throwing mud on the country with claims that are leading nowhere, like some kind of joyless masturbation."
He writes: "There is no doubt that our leaders have done very little to change this situation with their lies, their intent on spoiling things and impeding strengthening of institutions in the country". But then he makes his point: "But there are too many good people in this nation for something like that to be happening. What's going on with the good people?"
Adriano Miguel Tejada says that if those who truly love the country continue to stay in their comfortable chairs watching everything that is happening with disdain, the bad guys will continue sending legislators to Congress and bad politicians to lead government. "It is time to wake up," he concludes.
 
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Conchman

Conchman

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the problem is that many Dominicans benefit from their local politicians, whether by being awarded city contracts, getting your son out of jail, not paying certain taxes, etc. You would have to start at the justice system, corruption cannot exist if laws are enforced. But the DR has one of the worst justice systems in the world, where cronyism, favors, and payoffs are the norm, not the exception. Once you get the laws enforced, everything else becomes easy, as regular citizens and reporters could report crimes that would actually end up with the punishment of the perpetrators. Its no accident that in a country with such high amounts of corruption, hardly anybody is ever is convicted of bribery.
 
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woofsback

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it takes time

don't forget the fear that if they get someone in a higher position mad,
they may end up with a taste of the trujillo medicine

when people are born and bred into that type of system,
it's very hard for them to see any light at the end of a tunnel

it's going to take a few more generations b4 it finally changes for the better
and computers will be the reason....

the more affluent the children become with computers the more they will explore and see that there are better ways and they will demand it....
like all children..."i want and i'm going to get"
 
M

MrMike

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They don't want justice, they want to maneuver into a position to take advantage of the injustice.

If most of them really had to think about it, the last thing in the world they want is to fix the system, cause that eliminates their chance for a payday.

People get the society they create, and they get the rulers they deserve.
 
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woofsback

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They don't want justice, they want to maneuver into a position to take advantage of the injustice.

maybe the ones in position are that way, but i doubt very much the poor worker raising a family thinks this way

People get the society they create, and they get the rulers they deserve.

are you for real?
who in thier right minds want to be enslaved, to be tortured, be forced to follow rules they disagree with but are powerless to act because some corrupt leaders decided to take over a country and run it THIER way...
anyone who disagrees DIES...you honestly think they deserve this?
 
R

RacerX

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Conchman said:
the problem is that many Dominicans benefit from their local politicians, whether by being awarded city contracts, getting your son out of jail, not paying certain taxes, etc. You would have to start at the justice system, corruption cannot exist if laws are enforced. But the DR has one of the worst justice systems in the world, where cronyism, favors, and payoffs are the norm, not the exception. Once you get the laws enforced, everything else becomes easy, as regular citizens and reporters could report crimes that would actually end up with the punishment of the perpetrators. Its no accident that in a country with such high amounts of corruption, hardly anybody is ever is convicted of bribery.
Click to expand...

I disagree, most people dont benefit from the system as it is, but those who do have no compulsion to "share" or even divulge the methods of their importance. All these factors are related. The pedantic need of calling someone Licensiado, the overabundance of talk shows on TV who always talk about the same thing, the PRD, the PLD, whatever other mindless political party in existence that only offers one thing to those who support it. Cronyism, and patronage appointments. This is the one reason why presently there is no hope for the political and economic situation. "I got mines, screw you" is the sentiment.
I agree with Mike here. True disclosure would expose the large amount of phonies and frauds who are only who they are because they know so and so, or they have a nice suit. A nice suit? Thats the pedigree here. Tell me I m wrong. I m most sure they even the implementation of a Civil Service Exam here would cause all types of mayhem in the operation of municipal services.

Yea, it would be great if the apathetic populace would stand up, but for what? What specific goal, result and outcome? I recommend them to stand up for full employment, full education, and a system of inclusion instead of preferential policy o ignorance.
But who am I? Just a dude with a US passport.
 
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MrMike

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woofsback said:
They don't want justice, they want to maneuver into a position to take advantage of the injustice.

maybe the ones in position are that way, but i doubt very much the poor worker raising a family thinks this way

People get the society they create, and they get the rulers they deserve.

are you for real?
who in thier right minds want to be enslaved, to be tortured, be forced to follow rules they disagree with but are powerless to act because some corrupt leaders decided to take over a country and run it THIER way...
anyone who disagrees DIES...you honestly think they deserve this?
Click to expand...

Freedom has a price, the only people in the world who are free are the ones who are ready to die to stay that way. Humans love oppressing each other, and Dominican humans seem to love it quite a bit. They don't have to rise very far before they immediately become little tyrants.
 
aarhus

aarhus

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Judicial System

Conchman said:
the problem is that many Dominicans benefit from their local politicians, whether by being awarded city contracts, getting your son out of jail, not paying certain taxes, etc. You would have to start at the justice system, corruption cannot exist if laws are enforced. But the DR has one of the worst justice systems in the world, where cronyism, favors, and payoffs are the norm, not the exception. Once you get the laws enforced, everything else becomes easy, as regular citizens and reporters could report crimes that would actually end up with the punishment of the perpetrators. Its no accident that in a country with such high amounts of corruption, hardly anybody is ever is convicted of bribery.
Click to expand...

I agree that it all depends on the Judicial System working. And maybe an ombudsmand keeping an eye on the authorities.
 
Squat

Squat

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Jan 1, 2002
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MrMike said:
They don't want justice, they want to maneuver into a position to take advantage of the injustice.

If most of them really had to think about it, the last thing in the world they want is to fix the system, cause that eliminates their chance for a payday.

People get the society they create, and they get the rulers they deserve.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%, although I find it sad...
It?s been a while I am living & working here, and this is exactly my experience, from the poor in the barrio, to the wealthy in Arroyo Hondo...
There are however exceptions (of course...) But those folks are in a small minority...
 
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jorgesarduysousa

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Remember the Dominican Slogan"""
Why do things in the correct manner when doing them in a disorderly fashion brings benefits"
 
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woofsback

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going to school

sorta like the kids who just want to have fun and go to school
except theres a bully there...
they can't beat him...
he won't leave them alone...
and if they tell anyone they get it even worse...
they asked to live like that right?

i do agree that the judicail system is probably not as strong as it needs to be

but to think that the masses want this and enjoy this is just stupid.

they don't have a choice til laws are made and enforced.

the trujillo system has been implanted into thier lives and it's the only thing they know.....
 
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Chip

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Many Dominicans are rightly disgusted but feel powerless. Plus the culture too is a lot less confrontational than say the US. It is a complex problem that I believe can only be remedied by education. That being said, I've become somewhat impressed by what they are teaching grade school children here, specifically mine. Who knows, we could see some big changes in a generation.
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

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It's not apathy. It's the reality of Dominican politics.

NOTHING will change until the DR implements a viable, professional Civil Service System not based on clientelism.

The Best Jobs for the average Dominican are gubmint jobs, and those go to the supporters of the winners of elections. Sever that connection and maybe progress can be made.

Until then, don't hold your breath. All the editorials in the world won't matter.
 
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Chip

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windeguy said:
No amount of education will matter without such reform.
Click to expand...

Education gives the ability to question norms and raise expectations. I don't see how clientelism will just disappear. It's either via education or some type of revolution or coup.
 
E

ExtremeR

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cobraboy said:
It's not apathy. It's the reality of Dominican politics.

NOTHING will change until the DR implements a viable, professional Civil Service System not based on clientelism.

The Best Jobs for the average Dominican are gubmint jobs, and those go to the supporters of the winners of elections. Sever that connection and maybe progress can be made.

Until then, don't hold your breath. All the editorials in the world won't matter.
Click to expand...

Bingo, we have a winner. That's why Dominicans are apathethic as you guys says. Any amount of talk or opposittion you may try in the DR won't do anything until we implement what Cobraboy stated here. Meanwhile, why risk an ulcer or a heart attack on a lost cause??
 
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Berzin

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Chip said:
Education gives the ability to question norms and raise expectations. I don't see how clientelism will just disappear. It's either via education or some type of revolution or coup.
Click to expand...

There was a DR1 article recently about how some well-qualified students were not allowed to study abroad because they did not meet the requirements to travel abroad-the house, the bank account, etc.

The excuse was if they left to study they would not come back because they have nothing to come back to. That's about as cynical a statement for social nepotism and intellectual stagnation as has been made by the DR government.

With this they are actively engaging in keeping a segment of their population from advancement by political decree.
 
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RacerX

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Berzin said:
There was a DR1 article recently about how some well-qualified students were not allowed to study abroad because they did not meet the requirements to travel abroad-the house, the bank account, etc.

The excuse was if they left to study they would not come back because they have nothing to come back to. That's about as cynical a statement for social nepotism and intellectual stagnation as has been made by the DR government.

With this they are actively engaging in keeping a segment of their population from advancement by political decree.
Click to expand...

Hold up, are you sure it was the DR govt who implements those rules? Maybe it was the recipient country? That sounds like the same criteria the US uses when issuing tourist visas(maybe they use the same checklist for student visas?)
 
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Chirimoya

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Yes, it was the Spanish consulate. I know one of the students who was given a scholarship, only to be turned down for the visa.
 
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