More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship

I suspect this rate will skyrocket as long as the current congress and prez is in power.

Living Proof

I can attest to the banking difficulties firsthand.

My US company had lottery priviledges in NJ. The bank of choice was Wachovia to deposit the lottery revenues.
When my annual banking renewal came up last October, I provided my basic information as I do every year. My immigration status is based on a work visa - permission to work in the US but no obligation to reside, although we do maintain a US residence.
The bank had changed its rules..... account holders are limited to US citizens and US permanent residents (green card holders).
My account was not renewed.
This was a simple lottery account on behalf of the state - a fiduciary account, in effect. I did not have withdrawal abitlity..... just a deposit account to the credit of the state and an account to recieve the lottery commissions.

Perhaps if i had argued that ....... why fight city hall? The banks do not want to be responsible for any accounts held by non-citizens/non-residents.

Adrian Bye said:

More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship

WASHINGTON ? Amid mounting frustration over taxation and banking problems, small but growing numbers of overseas Americans are taking the weighty step of renouncing their citizenship.

?What we have seen is a substantial change in mentality among the overseas community in the past two years,? said Jackie Bugnion, director of American Citizens Abroad, an advocacy group based in Geneva. ?Before, no one would dare mention to other Americans that they were even thinking of renouncing their U.S. nationality. Now, it is an openly discussed issue.?

The Federal Register, the government publication that records such decisions, shows that 502 expatriates gave up their U.S. citizenship or permanent residency status in the last quarter of 2009. That is a tiny portion of the 5.2 million Americans estimated by the State Department to be living abroad.

More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship - NYTimes.com

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Good for them!

Expat13 said:

Good for them!

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I certainly disagree with that. People all over the world would love to have US citizenship.

No place is perfect, and the US is going through some tough times. I am not happy with the way things are going, but certainly not going to give up my citizenship.

You can be sure that one of these days this foolish act is going to come back and bite the people who surrendered their US citizenship.

If this thread is to stay open, keep contributions focused on the expatriate angle.

An expatriate that voluntarily resigns his/her citizenship, as long that they are not opting for being stateless, I don't see what the fuss is about.

Upon that moment of resignation the person will not have a heart attack, will not be damned with some new disease, will not fall into a depression, will not have an instant economic crisis or anything of sort due to resigning their American citizenship. Life will not end because of that.

What could be the fear, especially if a person knows they will never live in the U.S. ever again and have no real reason to visit the U.S. again?

The likelihood your new country might go through some tumultuous moments between now and the day you die is very low.

How many countries fall into political/economic/etc. revolutions every decade?

How many countries go to war on home turf, or are invaded by foreign powers on a per decade basis?

So few and far between that to worry about those things is almost ridiculous. In all likelihood, the countries with the greatest risks of falling into some sort of anarchy that would merit a mass evacuation of non-local citizens are countries that are already unstable, and most countries in the world are simply not at that level. Plus, the Americans in countries with a very real risk of being destabilized are probably not the one's opting to denationalize themselves.

With the case of the DR, it certainly isn't anywhere near such scenario.

I guess I don't understand why some people are so negative towards those who choose to give up their U.S. citizenship, regardless what the reason may be.

If you don't have much need to travel to the U.S. for whatever reason, if you have no intention of becoming a permanent resident in the U.S. anytime in the future, if your connections to the U.S. are nothing more than memories of several earlier chapters in your life that will definitely not be repeated ever again; then what do you got to lose by giving up the U.S. citizenship?

Shopping trips to Miami? You can get the same stuff in other countries.

Top notch medical visits? Most countries have at least one or two top notch clinics/hospitals; no real need for US hospitals.

Winter weather and snow? Again, the rest of the world also offer this.

What exactly will be lost by resigning U.S. citizenship that is guaranteed to be seriously detrimental to a person's health?

Other than paying extra taxes that will be spent on things that will have little or no effects on you or your new home country, the answer is not much.

windeguy said:

A real question for anyone that knows: If a US citizen gives up their passport for a Dominican passport, what countries will they be allowed to visit? Will it become as difficult to travel as a native born Dominican? ( I suspect they will be able to get a US visitor's visa, but what about Europe, etc. ?)

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I don't think there is a guaranteed visitor visa.

Why should an expat who previously was free to enter and leave the US as he wished, be treated any differently than the other nationals of the country he chose to become a citizen of?

NALs said:

What could be the fear, especially if a person knows they will never live in the U.S. ever again and have no real reason to visit the U.S. again?

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For a person such as that, someone who gives up his citizenship certain that he will never again have a desire to travel to the US or be able to call on the US for help in a time of serious trouble, there is nothing to fear.

I wonder what percentage of the expats who have given up their citizenship or are seriously considering doing so fall into that category.

Ken2 said:

I certainly disagree with that. People all over the world would love to have US citizenship.

No place is perfect, and the US is going through some tough times. I am not happy with the way things are going, but certainly not going to give up my citizenship.

You can be sure that one of these days this foolish act is going to come back and bite the people who surrendered their US citizenship.

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Its fine to disagree, its your right, as it is for others to disagree with your views.
Yes I am sure people from all over the world aspire to become US citizens, but not like the old days. In my travels that mindset has changed considerably. I am happy to be a Canadian! the tax on residency, as opposed to citizenship, is a huge plus...my two cents only.

Wrong !

Ken2 said:

I certainly disagree with that. People all over the world would love to have US citizenship.

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People from developing countries would nearly die to have a US citizenship for obvious reasons.

I have lived here,in the US, for more than 10 years, but never felt the need to take US citizenship.

Chicken Little

The sky is falling.... the sky is falling !!

Citizenship, in today's world, is becoming a matter of choice.
Many options exist.

Why can't someone opt to be "stateless"... who cares ?

The aura of US citizenship may be changing. Years ago, the British passport was the cherished one. More recently, the most desirable situation was a Cdn passport with US residency.... things change and yet remain the same.
People travel the world with more alacrity now and perhaps with more freedom

The US allows visitors freely - too freely, some would say. Not being a citizen does NOT limit your visits to the US... perhaps the length of stay but not the number of visits (and even then, they have an ineffective way of measuring the stay)

The number of US ctizenship renounciations is increasing dramatically... each renounciation has its own reason.... impossible to cite those reasons.

Suffice to say "The tide is changing"

The world is rolling towards a global economy.
Why cant there be a global citizen?

WW

william webster said:

The sky is falling.... the sky is falling !!

Citizenship, in today's world, is becoming a matter of choice.
Many options exist.

Why can't someone opt to be "stateless"... who cares ?

The aura of US citizenship may be changing. Years ago, the British passport was the cherished one. More recently, the most desirable situation was a Cdn passport with US residency.... things change and yet remain the same.
People travel the world with more alacrity now and perhaps with more freedom

The US allows visitors freely - too freely, some would say. Not being a citizen does NOT limit your visits to the US... perhaps the length of stay but not the number of visits (and even then, they have an ineffective way of measuring the stay)

The number of US ctizenship renounciations is increasing dramatically... each renounciation has its own reason.... impossible to cite those reasons.

Suffice to say "The tide is changing"

The world is rolling towards a global economy.
Why cant there be a global citizen?

WW

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well 'stateless' would be a bummer, ask the Palestinians.

Conchman said:

well 'stateless' would be a bummer, ask the Palestinians.

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Why is "stateless" a bummer ?

If the issue is taxability, then stateless is good.
Do you need a place to hang your hat ? Why?

A house here, a house there, another one here/there.... every one is a home of sorts if you enjoy them.... just a bit nomadic.

Consider these 'high flying' Euros we all read about.... they are Monaco residents (race car drivers, tennis players) or where ever else.
BUT they all have NYC apartments, Palm beach, Long Island whatever

Having no fixed address.... that's a problem for the homeless, a plus for the advantaged ---- a paradox.

As I said.... the world is going global, think outside the box... the new box

WW

Conchman said:

well 'stateless' would be a bummer, ask the Palestinians.

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Sorry, I get it.... to you 'stateless' means no homeland .... getting kicked off your land/property

I don't think thats what we're talking about here

Others may correct me :-((

william webster said:

The US allows visitors freely - too freely, some would say. Not being a citizen does NOT limit your visits to the US... perhaps the length of stay but not the number of visits (and even then, they have an ineffective way of measuring the stay)

The number of US ctizenship renounciations is increasing dramatically... each renounciation has its own reason.... impossible to cite those reasons.

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Yes, the US has been too free in allowing visitors. But that is changing. Have no idea what the end result will be, but I'm certain entry will be more difficult than at present. The law just passed by Arizona is one indication. Other states are looking at the law to see how it might apply to them. The heat is now on the Federal Government to come up with a law that makes it unnecessary for states to adopt their own laws.

How this will affect the expat who chose to become a foreign national remains to be seen.

If citizenship is renounced

What are the tax obligations on USA pensions, social security, stock earnings and capital gains, annuities, etc.?

Go Ahead

Go ahead and give up your American citizenship, become whatever vagabond you want. I really doubt most will do that. It's a a serious matter. If you're a tax refugee you probably have lots of assets. You'll pay a price eventually. Keep bouncing around if you can, but once you give it up, there is no turning back, not ever. I for one would never even consider giving up what I consider a gift, a pleasure and a lucky draw in the gene pool.

By all means, give up your citizenship

Being an American is a privilege and an obligation. By all means, cast your fate to the unpredictable politics of a country that has no justice system or long established experience of democracy. Just be prepared to die an outcast in a foreign land where you never know what government will be next.

Sorry to kindly disagree Gabriela, but being born as any nationality is an accident of birth. NO ONE chooses where one is born, that decision is made by their parents. One can only choose where to live once they can make their own decisions.

If someone finds themselves as an "outcast" in another country, that probably means that they were an outcast in the country of their birth too. If I am to be considered by some as an outcast because I left the country of my birth, then my question is "who is disloyal - me, my so-called friends back there, or the government of my birth country which I rejected?"

Someone moving to another country does have a privilege with associated obligations, but then again, they made their own choices. There should very few remaining obligations or privileges to the country which they abandoned.

As far as being subjected to unknowns in a political or judicial system in any country, your own actions can usually avoid complications. In the DR or the US, the only predictable thing in politics is that the next people assuming control will have as their sole objective a plan to grab more control and more money from those poor saps who choose to or are trapped into participating in their folly. Going unobtrusively about one's life and daily business usually functions to avoid these types of complications. Park your ego just inside your front door and you'll usually be fine.

Unlike the US, at least the governments in the DR and most other "democracies" in this world choose to butt out if one of their citizens goes somewhere outside of their chosen homeland to live their life.