A sad story - how to stop it happening again

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
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Lasr week an 11 year old girl went up onto the zinc roof of her house to adjust the TV aerial. Somehow the electricity cable was touching the antenna, and once she touched the antenna she was unable to let go. A crowd stood around screaming and watching as they were afraid to touch her, or go onto the roof, and did not know what to do. She died. As did an 8 year old boy yesterday - also electrocuted.

This happens all the time so I have decided to do something about it - work with the local red cross, defensa civil and Edeste to educate people as to what they should do. I have been told (in all seriousness) that you should throw a knife at someone or shoot them somewhere non - fatal as if they bleed then the electricity comes out with the blood!

I know very little about electricity, so please let me know - taking into account this country - what you should do if you see someone being electrocuted.

Obviously turn off the current if you can. Can you use pliers with a rubber handle?

Move the electric cable with a mop??

Why do people not let go of the cable when they touch it?

I assume cpr would work if you can get to someone as soon as they have 'died'???

All help gratefully received.

thanks

Matilda
 
Mar 1, 2009
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Muy bien! This happened to my friends cousin, it's called "se quedo pegao", he touched something a wire and became deaf and mute as a result. You have a good idea since that is such a horrible way to die. Ay ombe pobrecita.
 

jrhartley

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Sep 10, 2008
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apparently you can still get a shock off the body if you touch it after its been dislodged from the power source
 

Robert

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Jan 2, 1999
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apparently you can still get a shock off the body if you touch it after its been dislodged from the power source

Would like to see the facts on that, I don't see how it's possible, maybe some static?

Basically, you need to get them away from the source.
Ideally with either a piece of wood, rubber or plastic (broom, rolled up newspaper), something that does not conduct electricity very well.

In this case, looks like the current was passing through her to the zinc roof.

The electricity coming out with the blood sounds like something a brujo would come up with. That would only help if the force of the impact dislodged them from the source.
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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A great cause but I don't know if the solution would be so easy.

Part of the problem is in the campo many people are stealing power and the lines they use to connect are atrociously dangerous.

The real fix will come when people are connected to the power grid by professionals. Also, the parents are culpable in this case if they sent her up there in the first place. What can you do about bad parenting? We spend billions of dollars on education and whatnot in the States and have little results to show for it.
 

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
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These people were not stealing power. I know there are a lot of people stealing power who also get electrocuted, but also our so called professional electricity companies are nowhere near the standards of the first world, and lines fall down all the time - on roads and in this case a roof. I am trying to educate the parents - not a case of bad parenting - a case of lack of knowledge.

Thanks Robert - if someone went onto the zinc roof wearing shoes would that protect them??

matilda
 

greydread

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Jan 3, 2007
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An ounce of prevention

The antenna should have been properly grounded. Connecting a 16 ga. or larger wire or better yet, steel or copper braid from the antenna assembly to any cold water pipe would have greatly reduced her exposure as a conduit for electrical current. It's not a true earth ground but it's close enough to make the shock an annoyance rather than a fatality.

Who sends an 11 year old child onto the roof for any reason?

I have also noticed that Dominicans prefer electrical tape to wire nuts on twisted pairs for household current. This is not very smart as the tape's adhesive will weather and dry leaving exposed wires resulting in danger to children and household pets.

Child safety appears to be way down the list of priorities in the DR. Like the link stated, any nonconductive material can be used to knock an electrocution victim from a source of electric current up to and including a short, swift kick from a rubber soled shoe. Knowing where the circuit breakers (or fuses) are for the source is also very important. Why didn't someone trip the main?
 

Robert

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Jan 2, 1999
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The antenna should have been properly grounded. Connecting a 16 ga. or larger wire or better yet, steel or copper braid from the antenna assembly to any cold water pipe would have greatly reduced her exposure as a conduit for electrical current.

Grounding is very rare here and 99% of household water pipes are made of plastic.

Most houses in poor areas have no breakers and are connected directly.
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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These people were not stealing power. I know there are a lot of people stealing power who also get electrocuted, but also our so called professional electricity companies are nowhere near the standards of the first world, and lines fall down all the time - on roads and in this case a roof.

With all due respect, whether people are paying for power or not is really irrelevant because many have had their power connected , legally or otherwise, by someone in the barrio. The majority electrocutions are caused by this factor, not the occaisional downed power line.

I am trying to educate the parents - not a case of bad parenting - a case of lack of knowledge.

matilda

With the utmost of respect I have three daughters and would NEVER send my daughter up on a roof. whetehr it's pc or not to me this is bad parenting. Just like letting 4 year olds wander around in the streets alone.
 

wuarhat

I am a out of touch hippie.
Nov 13, 2006
1,378
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Lasr week an 11 year old girl went up onto the zinc roof of her house to adjust the TV aerial. Somehow the electricity cable was touching the antenna, and once she touched the antenna she was unable to let go. A crowd stood around screaming and watching as they were afraid to touch her, or go onto the roof, and did not know what to do. She died. As did an 8 year old boy yesterday - also electrocuted.

This happens all the time so I have decided to do something about it - work with the local red cross, defensa civil and Edeste to educate people as to what they should do. I have been told (in all seriousness) that you should throw a knife at someone or shoot them somewhere non - fatal as if they bleed then the electricity comes out with the blood!

I know very little about electricity, so please let me know - taking into account this country - what you should do if you see someone being electrocuted.

Obviously turn off the current if you can. Can you use pliers with a rubber handle?

Move the electric cable with a mop??

Why do people not let go of the cable when they touch it?

I assume cpr would work if you can get to someone as soon as they have 'died'???

All help gratefully received.

thanks

Matilda

It is never advisable to cut a live wire with pliers.

I've heard of a rescue implemented by a good hard wack with a two by four. It would appear brutal, but at that stage of the game necessary. By no means should a metallic rod or any other conductive material be used. So a sharp blow on the forearm of the hand that was holding the antenna, with a wooden mop handle, might have freed her.

I think the clasping has to do with the 60 cycle oscillation of the current. I'm not sure of the physiology.

If the victim can be removed from the power source CPR is the recommended first aid.
 
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Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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Santiago
Based on my experience 4 years in this country (and as an egineer to boot) and having witnessed personally LIVE connections at least 20 times to the power supply if you find somebody in this situation do the following:

1. While wearing thick soled rubber boots or shoes and GLOVES, get a long enough wooden pole and knock the connecting wires off of the utility pole that connects to the house.

2. Or ... get a WOODEN ladder with thick soled boots amd GLOVES and CUT the wire with RUBBER WELL insulated wire clippers. Never touch the exposed skin to the ladder.

Use this only as a LAST RESORT.
 
Last edited:

wuarhat

I am a out of touch hippie.
Nov 13, 2006
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89
48
These people were not stealing power. I know there are a lot of people stealing power who also get electrocuted, but also our so called professional electricity companies are nowhere near the standards of the first world, and lines fall down all the time - on roads and in this case a roof. I am trying to educate the parents - not a case of bad parenting - a case of lack of knowledge.

Thanks Robert - if someone went onto the zinc roof wearing shoes would that protect them??

matilda

By all means if you were going to go on a roof to do something like that shoes would help, the heavier duty the sole the better, but even most work boots are not sufficient to protect you completely. If it happens to you personally the way to break the connection is to deliberately fall, and let your weight break your grasp.
 

bigbird

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May 1, 2005
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Sad story,,,,,,,

The easiest and quickest thing to do would be grab a heavy stick, a 2x4, anything wooden and try to knock the wire away or knock the person's arm loose.

Wearing heavy boots, shutting the main off, grounding the antenna all sound good but in real life you just don't have time for these things. In another post it was mentioned the muscles contract, that is why you are not able to let go. You literally have to knock the person away, even if it means you hit them so hard you break their arm.

For kids to be on a tin roof is no biggie. I see them do it in the barrio all the time. For some kids the tin roof is a playhouse.

Do not grab the person being electrocuted! Grab a 2x4 and knock them loose!
 

J D Sauser

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Nov 20, 2004
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It is a sad story indeed. An 11 year old girl, fried... slowly and helpless.
Why did they send HER up on the tin roof? Because the "geniuses" expected that roof to support HER weight, because they could lift HER up there, because it was easier than doing it themselves.

Was there anything which could have been done, besides NOT sending her up (an adult would probably have met the same faith if they did not break their neck tearing the roof down before getting zapped)?
No, probably not, as until bystanders on the ground not only realized what was going on but also made their way up successfully to her and did the right thing... she had been dead already.

Really, the only thing one can do, as explained by my father who was a renown electrical engineer and professor, is RUN or JUMP into a person FEET FIRST and kick it away with all your force and mass... with 110V to 220V that's something the helping person may also get to feel a zap, but survive without damage. I know people who got kicked away when clinging onto a way higher voltage and both parties survived well.
IF a wooden pole IS at hand, one may leverage the victim away from the power source... but there sure is NO time to search around.

In Ecuador, most homes typically had electric shower heads... when they got old, they would eventually short out before dying... usually with somebody in the shower. Most grown Ecuadorian who was raised in a house hold with hot water will be able to tell you about at least one of these "experiences".
110V CAN be survived by a healthy person for longer than one would expect or Ecuador's population would probably be closer to 7 Million (instead of 14M.).

A Romanian worker I had in Spain, told me that once he had been working with a comrade at a small power substation. Suddenly, standing outside of the little shack, he observed how his coworkers leg, sticking out thru the door was shaking energetically. The station was handling voltages above 1000V. So Mr. Conopan grabbed a shovel and smashed his buddy so hard with it, it sent him flying out onto the floor knocked half unconscious. After coming back to his senses the "saved" comrade asked "why did you beat me, what did I do to you?". Mr. Conopan proudly explained he had just saved him, with the shovel he was still holding in his hand! To which his coworker replied that "NO", he had just dropped a screw into his rubber boots and was trying to shake it out! :tired:

... J-D.
 
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Adrian Bye

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Really, the only thing one can do, as explained by my father who was a renown electrical engineer and professor, is RUN or JUMP into a person FEET FIRST and kick it away with all your force and mass... with 110V to 220V that's something the helping person may also get to feel a zap, but survive without damage. I know people who got kicked away when clinging onto a way higher voltage and both parties survived well.
IF a wooden pole IS at hand, one may leverage the victim away from the power source... but there sure is NO time to search around.

this is good to know. good post
 

el forastero

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Oct 25, 2009
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Things to remember that apply in the DR:

1. Most ladders available in the DR are aluminum, which conducts electricity. If the electricity is connected to a zinc roof, it will go through the ladder (or an aluminum ladder with a rescuer on top of it) to the ground.

2. If the house is wired directly from the pole, make sure there are no others nearby if you need to knock the wire off the pole to disconnect. Should the house end of the wire come loose, there will then be a live wire on the ground. Damp ground can transmit electricity and anyone nearby could also be electrocuted if they are barefoot.

3. A dry pair of chancletas (rubber sandals) or tennis shoes should be thick enough to prevent electricity bleed from a normal current to the wearer. Most people in the DR don’t have or cannot afford proper workboots.

4. You don’t have to kill the victim while hitting them with something made from wood. Hit the point of contact with just enough force to release them (for example their arm).

5. Contact can also be broken using a piece of rope, a pair of DRY pants (use the ones you are wearing) or a piece of garden hose to pull them off the electrical contact. Put one end around their torso and then pull them away, without contacting their body with yours and becoming a second victim.

  • I now have visions of somebody using a running garden hose to do this in the future, and wiping out 10 rescuers while doing so.

True, most electrical connections in the DR are wrapped in electrical tape. While wire nuts are normal in a normal world, I for one have chased all over Santo Domingo in the past just trying to find the dam things.

The idea of stabbing someone or shooting them to break the contact with electricity is ridiculous, Matilda. As smart as they may be in other ways, Haitians or uneducated Dominicanos can sometimes be idiots with advice. Imagine the poor coroner’s dilemma when confronted with a burned body with cuts and bullet holes present.

Education is a start. Maybe teaching CPR to a lot of people would be a good first step.
 
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bigbird

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May 1, 2005
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.....
4. You don’t have to kill the victim while hitting them with something made from wood. Hit the point of contact with just enough force to release them (for example their arm).

5. Contact can also be broken using a piece of rope, a pair of DRY pants (use the ones you are wearing) or a piece of garden hose to pull them off the electrical contact. Put one end around their torso and then pull them away, without contacting their body with yours and becoming a second victim...........

Great info, I think everyone can remember this.
 

bigbird

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Amount of Time?

From the initial time someone is being electrocuted how much time does one have to try to knock them free? Please a ball park number, no analytical analysis.
 

J D Sauser

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From the initial time someone is being electrocuted how much time does one have to try to knock them free? Please a ball park number, no analytical analysis.

Sorry, I can't oblige. The question begs for an analysis.

Assuming we are talking about 110V, it all depends on WHERE THRU the current flows and how some organs are affected or react.
Some may go into cardiac arrest almost immediately, from shock and/or neuro-muscular alterations (E. g.: cardiac rhythm affected, loss of the ability to breath).
Others may just not find the neuro-muscular control to move away or just release a pole or wire and see their limbs being cooked/fried slowly. Some will have to have their limbs amputated afterward.
Usually, under 110-220V, as long the person is still standing, that person may still be alive or savable. A dead person, still being under power, will eventually fall into itself. On the other hand, some terminally damaged victims, may seem "alive" under power for a short while and turn out dead immediately upon being "saved". Others, may be in between and only be saved if CPR is being performed immediately after "disconnection".

I can't give you a ball park idea in TIME... seconds, minutes... some reports fly around about some having survived several minutes... under some circumstances.

A healthy adult takes little risk in trying to push, kick, jump or run off another holding on to 110-220V even if that person gets zapped along the way for a very short period. So, it would ALWAYS seem a reasonable risk to take.


I think that FORASTERO's last suggestion, to start with EDUCATION and possibly CPR would seem the greatest piece of advice given on this thread so far.

At the end, it will most likely only be the one who KNOWS what can/has to be done, who may have the reaction to do the right thing without hesitation.


I just can't stop thinking about that 11 year old girl. "My" Melany will turn 10 in September... I get this picture of that being her... I'd most certainly kill someone if it happened to her.


... J-D.