The big mistake...

bachata

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I don't understand why Dominicans name the US as "El pais de las oportunidades" when the more opportunities are in DR right in front of their nose a country where almost everything need to be done and most of the people are ignorant, a country a country where people is still blind, where if you are a skilled person or if you have some commercial abilities you can do very well.
I always remember a story my mother told me many years ago in order to give me enthusiasm as I was complaining about going to " la linea noroeste" representing a company doing of sales man .
this is the ex. she used.
An American shoe company hired a sales man to send him to Africa, two months later the guy came back and quit his argument was that African people was not used to dress shoes and it will be hard to set a market over there. ( the negative)
The American company hired a second sales man and sent him to Africa, three months later the manager received a letter on the mail.
This is the best marketing target I have ever seen my life as no one has a pair of shoes in this country. ( the positive)

JJ
 

Silenus

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I think one of the problems is education, I mean there are a lot of job opportunities but we dominicans don't think that to get good things you have to prepare yourself.

I have a lot of friends unemployed because they don't think that learning the basics of computer and english is required.

They just magically think that if they get to go to the USA they will get everything at their feet, only to be washing dishes there.

I recently graduated from accounting and just bought my first car, I don't need to go someplace else to do that. Although I know that I could get a better salary there I also know that I will have to pay more to live there.
 

Black Dog

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Isn't America widely known as "the land of opportunity"? On a flight back here from NY I sat next to a young Dominican lady who had grown up in NYC. We didn't speak during the flight but as we came into POP she got so excited and started telling me that she was coming to visit her grandparents and that she really wanted to come here to live and that she would like to drop out of university to live here even if she was just selling pizzas. I didn't want to give her a lecture on how hard her parents had probably had to work to get her into uni in the first place and how it might break their hearts to see her selling pizzas at the end of it, so I just made her promise not to miss her flight back to the US, I wonder if she did!
I guess the grass always looks greener eh?
 

ray718

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Funny thing about dominicans

Many dominicans are under the impression that in the u.s. Or living abroad gets you riches beyond your dreams, but many do not know the reality of living abroad. If you do not have a university degree or special skill and speak the native language of the host country, you are stuck with a low paying jobs and poor living conditions. I do not blame them for thinking such, because returning dominicans paint a pretty picture of what life is like abroad, and spend money while visiting d.r. Like no tomorrow-giving a wrong impression to dominicans. The same goes for tourist or ex-pats. They spend money like its water, and give the impression that its easy to get abroad. There are many people ( returning dominicans and ex-pats), who spend money in d.r., but do not spend or are loose with money in their native country. The 36.45 to a dollar or what ever to pound or euro exchange rate is a blessing for the vistor to the dominican republic
 

yacht chef

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No one has said anything about work ethic. Now it takes a lot of hard work and time but I have Sean dishwashers become great waters and bartenders. The chines have started stores and restaurants in bad neighborhoods from nothing. But there is a big difference between wanting, and being welling to do what ever it takes over the long long long Hal. My dad us to say to me all the time " boy your problem is you are just not hungry enough" I think he was right. Some day's playing dominoes and eating chicken and F ing sound A OK with me. Well back to work for me my SS check is still 30 years away.
 
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? bient?t

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E'te e' el pais de las grandes librerias: it doesn't get any better than that! Off to B&N I go... a leer gratis.
 

RacerX

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The chines have started stores and restaurants in bad neighborhoods from nothing.

Thats not true at all. There are things at play that you dont see.

I think one of the problems is education, I mean there are a lot of job opportunities but we dominicans don't think that to get good things you have to prepare yourself.

I have a lot of friends unemployed because they don't think that learning the basics of computer and english is required.

They just magically think that if they get to go to the USA they will get everything at their feet, only to be washing dishes there.

I recently graduated from accounting and just bought my first car, I don't need to go someplace else to do that

This is what I was driving at in my thread in the other section. There is so much to do here and the economy is so fickle so you can do it as you please. Why pine for glory days you think you ll achieve some other place if you are really not prepared for what may come? I dont know. I also think there is a tendency of those who long for there not to want to face reality and subscribe to the illusions of grandeur.
 

ExtremeR

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First factor that Dominican's do not take into account when moving here. Costs of living, they believe they will be able to live on the same US$400.00 a month they used to in the DR. But when they see in NY that they have to pay a US$1,000.00 a month for rent in a low level dump apartment, and after that they have to pay electricity, cable, gas while earning a 12 an hour wage doing hard labor then they start to appreciate what they had in the DR, that's the stage when some of not-so-good ones start messing around with illegal activities.

But there's some other cases when both husband and wife works and contain their costs intelligently & they can build a future for themselves.

In my case the move to the US has been positive as I snatched a good job in my area (IT, Networking) with a company that is growing real fast and is the leader on its market niche. My dilemma now consists on holding off temptations of spending money on useless stuff instead of saving it for something more important later on. I would never would have grabbed a job like this in the DR (at least the pay grade, I had far more responsibilities in the DR than I do here), but I came over here prepared, I know acceptable english, have a CCNA and working on a CCNP and over 5 years of experience working in the IT field in the Dominican Republic (which believe it or not, it is equally advanced as is it here, at least in the big private companies and banks).

Bachata, I saw that you took the first step on certificating yourself on auto mechanics and I commend you for that, and your english has gotten better which should be enough to work on the field and fill reports. Once you get your certifications and get a job based on that, you just start working again based on you experience in the DR and I will assure you everybody will be impressed.
 

suarezn

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Like most Dominicans I love The DR and I'm sure if I had stayed there I was going to make it and most likely make it good as what I was going to be - A doctor. Having said that the average person in The DR or even here in The US has the education, drive, etc...to make it just anywhere. This is where the big difference between The DR and a country like The US is.

A person with a high school diploma is probably not going to be making a top of the line salary in either country, but if you're a dishwasher in The US and you after you pay your bill you have a few hundred USD left that goes a long way when you go back to The DR. For comparison I'll use my son and my nephew, both recent high school graduates. My nephew lives in Santo Domingo and works at a nice hotel as a receptionist. My son works at a fast food restaurant. My nephew makes I think about 10k pesos and that's a good salary in The DR for someone inexperienced with no education. My son here brings in about 800 USD a month which would be a very decent salary in The DR even for an educated person.
 

DMV123

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We have to look at HOW Dominicans do learn:

1. Movies - good old Hollywood makes it look easy - the USA is the land of opportunity. Other countries same story...........

2. Returning Dominicans go out of there way to show the people at home how successful they are! It is expected. So all those neighborhood kids look up to the visiting heroes. And often it is not real - it is illusion as well.

3. Ex pats - we make it look easy. We are rich and we choose to come here to live - we have air conditioners and jeeps and a nice life style. How did we get that - by living outside the DR.

4. Tourists - if you can afford to come on vacation and spend 1,000's of dollars on a vacation you must be rich. And where do you live - not here. So the lesson is to get rich you have to live somewhere else.

Is this based on fact? Of course not. It is an illusion. Those who come on vacation may have worked their asses off for 2 years to afford this. Yes it costs a lot to live in US or England or wherever but Dominicans do NOT see this.

Some expats who retire here have worked their whole lives to be able to retire here. It is not something locals can really relate to. They only see the expat as the HAVES.......

And they do not get the truth about Dominicans living abroad. It is NOT easy.

It is the old - The Grass is Always Greener ..............
 

bachata

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My point of view is based on my self experiences. I know millions Dominicans doesn't have the same education level or skills, with high school education but the sufficient skills to find the way to make a living with out the need to work for somebody else, driving a cab and going to "Villa Cosuelo" in SD to get merchandise to resell it in "La Linea Noroeste" I can make a decent life in DR.
I used to do this in the past and made good money some time more than some of my friends who are professionals.

JJ
 

RacerX

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Like most Dominicans I love The DR and I'm sure if I had stayed there I was going to make it and most likely make it good as what I was going to be - A doctor. Having said that the average person in The DR or even here in The US has the education, drive, etc...to make it just anywhere. This is where the big difference between The DR and a country like The US is.

A person with a high school diploma is probably not going to be making a top of the line salary in either country, but if you're a dishwasher in The US and you after you pay your bill you have a few hundred USD left that goes a long way when you go back to The DR.
For comparison I'll use my son and my nephew, both recent high school graduates. My nephew lives in Santo Domingo and works at a nice hotel as a receptionist. My son works at a fast food restaurant. My nephew makes I think about 10k pesos and that's a good salary in The DR for someone inexperienced with no education. My son here brings in about 800 USD a month which would be a very decent salary in The DR even for an educated person.

Thats not true. At the end of the entire statement your son is only doing "well" washing dishes because he lives with you. No dishwasher or menial kitchen help anywhere in the United States is making more than minimum wage(lets say $7/hour). To even look at the classification of "well" he d have to be working about 100 hours a week, to lose 30% to taxes and own everything he needed(housing, car, etc.) In reality, one person in that position does not get passed the substandard classification of living. He owns nothing, he does nothing and he participates in nothing. Your son can do this, because for him he sees it as a wasting time measure until he figures what he may want to do: join the military, go to community college or trade school or get a government job. Some people dont have that luxury, Americans or immigrants. Dont believe me, go out on any Interstate you want to and stop at any place at random. Some of those people are trapped in those lives.
I know $800 is a great salary for a Dominican in DR, but no matter what it sucks in the US. After taxes you make $10K/year. YOu re getting no where with that. No where.
 
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Figure this as a bare bones budget of $800/month:

Rent $400--with roommate(s)
Transportation $50(no car, some bus)
Food $200(enough calories, but not much nutrition)
Utilities/Phone $50
Clothing $30
Misc $20

Believe me that is no where close to enough. I remember making $4/hour-- minimum wage 25years ago and that was enough to cover my bills and then some. I was also working three jobs. But $4/hour in 1985 dollars in today's dollars is more like $11/hour. Also most minimum wage jobs do not hire for 40 hours a week because they never pay overtime. One more thing about this budget: don't get sick.
 
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negro americano

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I agree with virtually everything Extreme said in his post. You seem to have the perfect mindset needed for successful immigration. And on top of that, congrats for being in the catbird seat of having the proper understanding of how things work, not falling victim to materialism, as well as earning good money. That's what it's all about. And to Bachata, the pieces will fall into place eventually primo. And you'll appreciate it all even more once they do



Although i'm sure many(especially my fellow Yanks) will beg to differ, i think an immigrant with a roomate, or especially a couple, both with low end 8/9 dollarish type jobs could make a living in America, if not a good living. But then, I'm of the school of thought, that for the most part, it's what you do with what you make, rather than what you make. But of course, as always, there are restrictions. I find it quite ludicrous that someone would make possibly the biggest decision of their lives without investing proper time, thought, and research into the most basic of things such as job markets and costs of living of their new home just to name a few. That's probaly most peoples first big mistake. There has to be at least 100 or so metro areas in the US with populations of a quarter of a million or more. And outside of the DC all the way up through the northeast corridor area, along with maybe 5-6 other highly expensive areas, i think the US is a pretty affordable country. Even to those making menial wages, so long as they live accordingly and well within their means. But that says it all, living within your means. A lot of immigrants don't get caught up in the materialism, overconsumption, and credit games that vast amounts of Americans do. They simply lead good but frugal lifestyles, wanting or needing for nothing. Why wouldn't a couple with total take home pay of something in the just say $2200 dollar or so range monthly(which is what i would assume two $8 hr jobs would likely equal out to) be able to make a pretty good living. If sticking to needs such as a moderate rent, food, utilities, and paying cash for their cars and everything else, i think they'd be able to make a decent living, send some money home, and save a good deal of money all at the same time. But this is inconceivable to most Americans on eye level and in real life because they'd probaly have all the basic life needs, to go along with a massive car note, 2/3/4 credit card payments, and countless other payments and wastes of money. I would even go so far as to say that a lot of hourly wage earning immigrants have a lot healthier financial situation, to go along with more money in the bank, than native people making 2-3 times what they make. The guy making $50/60 grand annually has more toys and a swankier address. But he probaly has a lot more headaches too.
 
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bob saunders

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There has to be at least 100 or so metro areas in the USwith populations of a quarter of a million or more. And outside of the DC all the way up through the northeast corridor area, along with maybe 5-6 other highly expensive areas, i think the US is a pretty affordable country. Even to those making menial wages, so long as they live accordingly and well within their means. But that says it all, living within your means. A lot of immigrants don't get caught up in the materialism, overconsumption, and credit games that vast amounts of Americans do. They simply lead good but frugal lifestyles, wanting or needing for nothing. Why wouldn't a couple with total take home pay of something in the just say $2200 dollar or so range monthly(which is what i would assume two $8 hr jobs would likely equal out to) be able to make a pretty good living. If sticking to needs such as a moderate rent, food, utilities, and paying cash for their cars and everything else, i think they'd be able to make a decent living, send some money home, and save a good deal of money all at the same time. But this is inconceivable to most Americans on eye level and in real life because they'd probaly have all the basic life needs, to go along with a massive car note, 2/3/4 credit card payments, and countless other payments and wastes of money. I would even go so far as to say that a lot of hourly wage earning immigrants have a lot healthier financial situation, to go along with more money in the bank, than native people making 2-3 times what they make. The guy making $50/60 grand annually has more toys and a swankier address. But he probaly has a lot more headaches too.

Excellent post, here in Canada I would say the same. Most immigrants do as well if not better that native born Canadians because they have their priorities set diferently, and are used to live with less. Within a few years many own their house without a mortgage, and start businesses. For example in our household, I pay all the bills except gas and insurance for my wife's car. My wife's wages all go to school expenses for the two we still have in college, or into the bank.
 

suarezn

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Extreme: You completely missed my point. Obviously these are not good salaries in either country, but the point is that at the end of the day any little money left when you're working in The US goes a long way when you go back to The DR, thus the reason almost every poor Dominican wants to emigrate.
 
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? bient?t

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Extreme: You completely missed my point. Obviously these are not good salaries in either country, but the point is that at the end of the day any little money left when you're working in The US goes a long way when you go back to The DR, thus the reason almost every poor Dominican wants to emigrate.

I think it was RacerX who missed your point, not Extreme.
 
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The way for a Dominican to make money is to come to the US for a summer and stay with three other people in some tiny room and bust their butts for about 20 weeks. If they work 60 hours a week or more they will not have time to spend their money and they can go back to the DR and take the rest of the year off.

I worked on a farm several years ago and they had a dozen or so Jamaicans working the fields on an guest visa exchange program. It's been around since WWII when the US farm boys went off to war. Now, no one in the US wants work that hard for the wages they pay. They put them up in a common house, they live on pidgeon peas and rice with a little meat and not allowed to go to bars. But they made $8/hour tax free and worked up to 80 hours a week starting with planting peas and finishing with picking apples and pumpkins.

When they go home at the end of the 20 week season, they can buy a small house, start their own business or both. But it's brutal work most days and it takes more skill than most people give credit. The farm owner had tried to hire farm local kids at times but they all quit or got fired after a day or two. Most of the Jamaicans were in their late 30's early 40's.
 
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Chip

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If you have money or access to said and a good business sense you can do well in the DR. I have seen plenty cases of this here.
 

bachata

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Check this out

If you have money or access to said and a good business sense you can do well in the DR. I have seen plenty cases of this here.
In the DR most of the business man I mean the rich people never finish the elementary school. The professional works for them for a miserable salary.

JJ