Places to Retire on Social Secuity Alone

AlterEgo said:

I came across this page on places to retire on Social Security alone, the top 5 are detailed [DR is not one of them]. I thought it might interest some of us, they say the average SS check is $1200 - times 2 [ $2,400 for a couple] I think DR should rank right up there.

Has anyone lived DR *AND* in the places they detail, and if so, how do you compare them with living in DR?

places-to-retire-on-social-security-alone: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

AE

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Have not lived in any of those other places, but as 1200us is around 40,000rd depending on the exchange rate. there are a whole lot of people living on much less than that here. so would depend on your lifestyle.

One thing is for sure, you are going to be seeing a lot more people ask this question in the future.

I have heard that Ecuador is one of the cheapest in Latin America to live, followed by Bolivia.

I haven't been to any of those places, but Michoacan is suppose to be one of the hot spots in the Mexican Drug Wars. And that's not drug wars like Nancy Reagan "just say no," but a dozen bodies found in a mine with their heads cut off drug and more killed there than in Afghanistan kind of drug war. I hear one of the drug lords keeps tigers and feeds his enemies to them once in a while...

Not surprising to see Panama on the list. There is a big advertising push here in the US targeted to the old.

AlterEgo said:

I came across this page on places to retire on Social Security alone, the top 5 are detailed [DR is not one of them]. I thought it might interest some of us, they say the average SS check is $1200 - times 2 [ $2,400 for a couple] I think DR should rank right up there.

Has anyone lived DR *AND* in the places they detail, and if so, how do you compare them with living in DR?

places-to-retire-on-social-security-alone: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

AE

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That article didn't really appear to be the result of any "study". If it was, Mexico wouldn't even be on the list and the DR definitely would be. Every ex-pat I knew in Mexico has moved back (most to FL or TX).

Mexico has a level of "scary" about it that I've never seen or heard of in the DR. Mexico may not be quite as "lawless" as the DR but there the "Law" is just another street gang. They're not even the biggest or best armed of them. Since the drug bottleneck experienced in Mexico at the start of the past decade ex-pat's have pretty much had to live like "ghosts", maintaining the lowest possible profile and relying on trusted locals to do everything for them from shopping to paying the bills. I'm talking about Central and South Central Mexico, not the border or seaside cities. They used to be ex-pat paradise. Besides the drugs, South Central Mexico has their own problems dealing with the repressed Zapotec population. They are not happy.

....and how in the heck did China make their list?

Actually, the best place to retire...

AlterEgo said:

I came across this page on places to retire on Social Security alone, the top 5 are detailed [DR is not one of them]. I thought it might interest some of us, they say the average SS check is $1200 - times 2 [ $2,400 for a couple] I think DR should rank right up there.

Has anyone lived DR *AND* in the places they detail, and if so, how do you compare them with living in DR?

places-to-retire-on-social-security-alone: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

AE

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on social security alone will be the country that wins the the right to provide Medicare services and then successfully promotes it.

With current budget constraints and the boomers retiring in ever greater numbers for at least the next 10 years and with all those people living longer, the system will be severely tested.

If only the DR government could discard the live for today mentality and think outside the box...If only.

Because of their proximity to the US, I can envision Mexico and Cuba someday being perfect candidates for this sort of thing.....but, for various reasons, certainly not now. The DR could well be in the running if such an opportunity would become available, but that takes vision, planning and lobbying now.



Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

great Topic,
thanks for bringing such up and read opinions on it, AE.
i never lived in any of the countries to compare,
Ecuador is very cheap, yes Robert, and they serve the worst food of all places i ever visited, but great fishing around the Galapagos far offshore. would be a place of interest for myself.
Mexico i find to unstable,
you can live comfo in foreign residencies, but i wouldnot recommend it outside of those areas, prisonlike.
China i never travelled.
Panama brings back good memories, would not have a prob to stay there.
with $1.200.- a month from guranteed check/deposit here in the DR a comfo retirement is possible, yes. no need to stay within a gated community, but of course available if wanted, all around the year climate very fine(don't ask me about the rain at my place right now, it's not the norm).
i will be just 46 this september, plenty of time to choose and get ready, lol,
but at this moment the other locations could not convince me to move for retirement, not moneywise nor weatherwise nor safety or comfowise.
looking forward on opinions and first hand experience on this topic.
Mike

Cheap living is good, but quality medical care becomes very important as one gets older. Not sure if one wants to risk a shorter retirement/life expectancy due to lack of medical services. :ermm:

playacaribe2 said:

on social security alone will be the country that wins the the right to provide Medicare services and then successfully promotes it.

With current budget constraints and the boomers retiring in ever greater numbers for at least the next 10 years and with all those people living longer, the system will be severely tested.

If only the DR government could discard the live for today mentality and think outside the box...If only.

Because of their proximity to the US, I can envision Mexico and Cuba someday being perfect candidates for this sort of thing.....but, for various reasons, certainly not now. The DR could well be in the running if such an opportunity would become available, but that takes vision, planning and lobbying now.



Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

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good points,
Medicare services are a top priority point fo retirees,
it is in retirement ages when we most need such services.
til today the leak of such here is the reason why my parents enjoy vacations but do not consider a move.

the 'live for today' mentality should not bother,
it is something done/thought/lived by each individual on his/her own, the DR would not bother if you want to spend your retiree time here with different priority points in mind.

yes,
the proximity to the US and also to Canada is a keygoal.
in case of Gubmint influences on the every days life of a retiree down here i would not worry much, the folks are welcome and not bothered.

from the foreigners i know down here who spend most of their retirement time on own properties/condos here in the PC area the ones who are unhappy are til now the ones who overdid it with their investments, like a too big/expensive/costy Condo/Villa, tried to make extramoney with sidebusinesses who finally been not successful etc etc.

the ones who moved down here with their Condo paid or living in a rental appropriate to their monthly retirement income do by my observation very well and are happy with their decision of destin.
Mike

CFA123 said:

Cheap living is good, but quality medical care becomes very important as one gets older. Not sure if one wants to risk a shorter retirement/life expectancy due to lack of medical services. :ermm:

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been writing my last posting while you posted.
total agreement,
it is one of the keypoints.
Mike

CFA123 said:

Cheap living is good, but quality medical care becomes very important as one gets older. Not sure if one wants to risk a shorter retirement/life expectancy due to lack of medical services. :ermm:

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What is the point? Is this a specific warning about retiring to the DR, or just a general observation. If the latter, I strongly agree.

With respect to medical care, not being able to use the medicare insurance that is deducted from my Social Security when I get medical care here is a concern, but quality of medical service is not. Yes, I
have to travel from Sosua to Santo Domingo or Santiago for all but one of the top specialists that take care of me, but that is no different than what I would need to do if living in many small town in the US.

These Yahoo news reports are written by idiots. You dont know how inexpensive it really is. This story was written to sell plane tickets and hotel rooms.
You can retire in the DR if you can live modestly and do not have a serious medical condition(if you do then you re relegating to the larger cities).

and the US dollar is the official currency in Panama and Ecuador...and Cuba...and Northern Mexico.

Ken,
It's a general comment and in my opinion should be consideration for anyone retiring to DR or elsewhere.

While you're in good health, retirement living in DR can be great... but I'd want to know I could afford to move back to the 'first world of medical care' should I start to have serious problems. For many of us there'll come a point where we need assistance to maintain both our quality and quantity of life.

I have a good friend who lives in Boquete, Panama and we talk a lot. Living costs are similar to Santo Domingo but without the perks of a large city. Lots of English-speaking people, with real estate on the expensive side that is easy to buy, and difficult to sell if you later change your mind about living there. To buy anything other than basics generally means a 45 minute trip to the next city which is David. They have blackouts, and lots of heavy rain this time of year. Good emergency medical care is 45 minutes away in David.
------------------------------

Morelia, Mexico might not be the best place to choose to live cheap for most foreigners. And greydread is right - the rest of Mexico is absolutely horrible. (I just don't want anyone else coming to my area of MX to spoil my personal paradise of the past 3+ years.)

Living costs in my part of MX are about 40%-50% of Santo Domingo's, with cheap 24/7 electricity and water. Garbage pickup and street cleaning every day of the week. Cheap internet up to 8mg speed and cable TV. Right now, it's sunny and 80 degrees, and will be 60 degrees tonight. I didn't need A/C in either place, but sometimes need a room heater here at night in the winters.

I can find all of the historical colonial stuff nearby (granted, with 50 years less colonial history than Santo Domingo). We have Sam's Club, Wal-mart, Costco, Sears, and about 5 other large national chains.

We have a good local private clinica /hospital with similar services but a much smaller facility than Abel Gonzalez, and the costs are reasonable - about US$125 a night. There are many other small private hospitals, and two large public hospitals as well. Many medical laboratories. There is also a large, well regarded regional hospital in a nearby city with all specialties available.

A doctor's visit here runs US$35-$40, and specialists run $50-$60. Many doctors here do continuing education / additional training in either the US or Cuba. Once you have residency in MX, you are eligible to join and pay for the MX public medical care system.

I have some medical issues under good control, but I don't lose sleep about suffering an emergency because I know that good care is less than 5 minutes away. I also have all of my doctors' home and cell telephone numbers and without exception, have told me to call them any time, any hour if I need to do so.

Comparison to Santo Domingo for me?

Benefits for me in MX - Lower living costs. 90% less stress. 90% cleaner. 90% less noise. Neighbors respect each other better in terms of not creating inconveniences for each other (I previously lived in Gazcue for 6 years). Reliable utilities. Very little air pollution, with the exception of January when the farmers outside of town burn off their fields. Good medical care. Spicier food. Great tequila. The learning curve for how things work was about the same as in the DR.

Drawbacks for me here in MX: Beaches are 8 hours away. Regular telephone service is much more expensive (but Skype solves that). More graffiti here. More of a "system" - for utilities, taxes, licenses, permits, etc. Forget to pay your light bill or telephone bill on time - they cut you off immediately. Slower mail/package services that cost more than Sto Dgo. Sometimes tough to find good plantano and mangos. Much fewer beautiful women. No Presidente, but many other varieties of beer for US$1 a bottle. Hard to find books/magazines in English locally. The MX banking system and the casas de cambio both suck here.

BUT, it could probably not be done in my area of MX without fluency in Spanish.

There are safe areas in MX such as Lake Chapala and San Miguel de Allende with concentrations of English-speaking gringos, but the cost of living is much higher - probably equal to Sto Dgo. If someone speaks Spanish, they could live on a low budget in a less-populated area of the DR, but the three remaining issues for me would still be reliable electricity; cheap, truly fast internet service; and probably too far from good, immediate medical attention in case of a medical emergency. This last one could be a killer.

Certainly only the well respected hospitals...

AlterEgo said:

Excellent point, and one that concerns me. I think the only place that MIGHT accept Medicare sometime down the road is HOMS in Santiago.

In my case, being married to a Dominican who loves his country, I'll be retiring in DR - a minimum of 6-7 months of each year, maybe coming back to NJ for the wonderful summer season we enjoy. I was intrigued by the cost estimates in those other countries, because my husband's brother told him to expect we'll spend $3000/US a month to live in DR. Our SS will exceed that, but I still think the # [about $100,000RD] per month is high [plus we'll still have our US home expenses/taxes in addition].

AE

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such as HOMS would be on a fast track for Medicare approval, but one of the real issues in getting an approval will be size of the US expat community residing there. That is the reason I believe the DR could have a significant advantage over other countries, except perhaps Mexico and Cuba.

With close proximity and fairly easy access to the US, a potentially huge number of retiring US Dominicans, the opportunity via the tourist mechanism to also attract non Dominican expats, the stage could be set. The high quality medical facilities like HOMS already exist.

Granted Mexico does have far more Mexican Americans and expats right now, but the current problems in Mexico make it a rather unlikely candidate for a Medicare experiment at this time.

Cuba could also be a potential recipient for the same reasons as Mexico, close proximity to the US, a huge Cuban American population that would love to returm home to retire and huge name recognition with non Cuban expats (thank Castro for something). But, for obvious current political reasons Cuba is out of contention until the government changes.

You can argue for Costa Rica, Panama, and Ecuador, but their distance from the US make them highly unlikely to attract the numbers of citizens the US government might require to implement such a trial. And, they do not have the numbers of potential returning former residents to provide a broad base.

As far fetched as it may sound, progress in this regard and on other expat issues has been ongoing. So much so that the House of Representatives in 2007 formed a bi-partisan sub-committee on Americans abroad to look into a broad range of issues, Medicare being but one.

For the most part change happens slowly, but it does happen. That is the reason I mentioned above that the DR government should become proactive by passing laws (that really work) to attract the expats, while at the same time using its tourist advantage to reach those expats, and finally to use its political contacts to press the issue as the expat community in the DR grows larger and larger. But as I said above "If only."


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2