death of a gringo in a motoconcho accident

Sad news. The driver 'Ramon', does anyone know what his nickname is around town, I am sure he has has a succession of accidents over the years?

Que pena. Yo lamento mucho. Unfortunately these things happen everywhere.

genistar said:

Que pena. Yo lamento mucho. Unfortunately these things happen everywhere.

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Why do people write this statement over and over again in matters relating to the DR?
Major crime, harrassment, corruption, "happen everywhere" - well you must all come from some pretty shady places, is all I can say. :ermm:

I live in England, not in a city, and probably see a motorcycle once or twice a day, perhaps a little more now it is Summertime. They are, by and large, insured for accidents and third party liability. Riders will be wearing helmets by law. We do not have numerous accidents in which blame lays with the "local" rather than the instigator.

Motoconchos are a huge liability to other road users and sometimes to passengers themselves. Whilst I see a need for the service you have to admit that they can be a hazard and a pain in the butt.

My condolences to the deceased and his family.

Rio

rio2003 said:

well you must all come from some pretty shady places, is all I can say. :ermm:

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I live in CANADA. In the summer time there are plenty of insured, properly licensed motorcyles on the road... and everyone wears helmets too. Guess what? There are deadly accidents all the time. What's your point, rio? You think being insured is gonna keep you from dying in an accident? :ermm:

I'm sick and tired of people judging the DR with a supposedly "enlightened" perspective - comparing it to other supposedly "enlightened" places. The DR isn't England. It's not the US. It's not Canada. There is no other place like it on the planet. And I thank God for that!

England has had a massive rise in motorcycle deaths of recent years. over 500 were killed last year and the number is continuing to rise. Accidents happen everywhere, even England.

Anastacio said:

England has had a massive rise in motorcycle deaths of recent years. over 500 were killed last year and the number is continuing to rise. Accidents happen everywhere, even England.

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THANK YOU!

God, how tiresome......
I sense another sabbatical coming up.

Rio

genistar said:

I live in CANADA. In the summer time there are plenty of insured, properly licensed motorcyles on the road... and everyone wears helmets too. Guess what? There are deadly accidents all the time. What's your point, rio? You think being insured is gonna keep you from dying in an accident? :ermm:

I'm sick and tired of people judging the DR with a supposedly "enlightened" perspective - comparing it to other supposedly "enlightened" places. The DR isn't England. It's not the US. It's not Canada. There is no other place like it on the planet. And I thank God for that!

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Sorry, to be polite and answer what my point is.....

There are vast numbers of motorbikes and vehicles on the roads of the DR that are neither insured or roadworthy. There are often accidents resulting in injuries, death and damage to other vehicles. Helmets are generally not worn.

So, in Canada do you have three people on a bike, a family with small children and babies perched on the petrol tank, animals, birds, white goods, furniture carried on them.

My point is that I feel if some degree of control was in place over all of this whether it be the unlicensed conchos, the wearing of a helmet, who and what is carried as fare and prosecutions if found drunk or high then the accidents would be a lot less.

My point is that the roads and people would be much safer if elementary measures were taken in the hope of avoiding such accidents.

You will not find a greater supporter of the DR, and it's people than me, but I do not wear rose tinted glasses and I am not afraid to criticise what I think are glaring problems.

That is my point! :tired:

Rio

The DR with "some degree of control", as you put it, would not be the DR. The laise-faire attitude that most Dominicans have when it comes to the rules of the road are expressed in every other aspect of their daily lives and culture.

Such as:
- bypassing of lineups if in a hurry
- drinking alcohol wherever you want
- showing up without an invitation
- bribing police/government officials
- excessive noise at all hours
- theft of electricity
- piracy of movies/music openly sold on the street
- copyright infringement
- businesses using famous people's photos to advertise without consent
- the list goes on and on...

These things may seem bad... but it's also the reason most foreigners have such a great time in the DR; this care-free attitude is part of the charm. It's a packaged deal. Because if you want the beaches and weather and palm trees and music WITH "some degree of control", go to Florida. Tampa's got a good sized Dominican community that can hook you up with the food and some imported Presidentes. Cheers!

This has gotten way off topic and I feel that I'm at fault. So I apologize for that. Perhaps another thread should be opened to discuss this break-off issue.

I completely agree with Rio on this issue.

Generally speaking in the DR, the roads are are in very poor condition, with huge potholes and deep ditches on either side.

Also generally speaking, many vehicles are in very poor condition and not very well maintained. The "inspection" system is a scam, and this pertains particularly to two-wheel vehicles.

And on top of that, many drivers here do not receive proper training, and more importantly, there seems to be a general attitude of uncaring, again particularly among the motoconchos.

All these factors add up to a much more dangerous driving situation here in the DR compared to other places in the world, specifically in Europe, Canada, and the US.

Furthermore, this forum is supposedly about the conditions here in the DR. When bad things occur here it is important that we are all informed, for a variety of reasons. One reason is so that we all can prepare and protect ourselves. We do not post primarily to make comparisons to other countries, but to better understand the conditions we must deal with here and now.

Well said, Rio & Catcher.

genistar said:

The DR with "some degree of control", as you put it, would not be the DR. The laise-faire attitude that most Dominicans have when it comes to the rules of the road are expressed in every other aspect of their daily lives and culture.

Such as:
- bypassing of lineups if in a hurry
- drinking alcohol wherever you want
- showing up without an invitation
- bribing police/government officials
- excessive noise at all hours
- theft of electricity
- piracy of movies/music openly sold on the street
- copyright infringement
- businesses using famous people's photos to advertise without consent
- the list goes on and on...

These things may seem bad... but it's also the reason most foreigners have such a great time in the DR; this care-free attitude is part of the charm. It's a packaged deal. Because if you want the beaches and weather and palm trees and music WITH "some degree of control", go to Florida. Tampa's got a good sized Dominican community that can hook you up with the food and some imported Presidentes. Cheers!

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My wife is Dominican and she always phones before going to visit someone, hates loud noise at night, doesn't drink, and would never cut in line. She refuses to bribe unless absolutely necessary....etc. What you say is true for a large part of the population but a lot were, and are raised with manners and have good morality. As far as the driving, 80% of moto drivers have no drivers license, and are a menance on the highways.

catcherintherye said:

Generally speaking in the DR, the roads are are in very poor condition, with huge potholes and deep ditches on either side.

Also generally speaking, many vehicles are in very poor condition and not very well maintained. The "inspection" system is a scam, and this pertains particularly to two-wheel vehicles.

And on top of that, many drivers here do not receive proper training, and more importantly, there seems to be a general attitude of uncaring, again particularly among the motoconchos.

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These things are undeniable. Of course it's dangerous. But what, specifically, can be done about this when so many people are living in poverty? The motorcycle is the most affordable transportation. There are helmet and licensing and insurance laws... but these are meaningless. The police don't care because they can't afford their next meal either... hence the reason they're all looking for bribes. It's in the government's best interest to keep people undereducated so they're more easily manipulated during election time.

When a typical Dominican man needs to feed his family, he's not going to care about his under-inflated tires, or his worsening brakes or even buying a helmet... these things aren't even on his radar because he's just trying to get enough money together for the rent and food... and of course he won't think about safety... he has little education so most likely hasn't learned to think about these things from that perspective, and without education he can't get a better job.... it's a vicious cycle.

When the average university graduate makes RD$15,000/month, what do you expect an uneducated working-class person makes? How can you live on that and still care about vehicle maintenance? I know that possible death may seem like a great reason to pay attention to these things, but that's the furthest thing from his mind.

You can't fix this one thing... not without fixing everything else. And right now, the only thing Leonel wants is to keep expanding the subway. I swear I've never seen it filled to capacity. I think the fullest I've ever seen it was like 10 people in a subway car. And as a foreigner, we can't really do anything anyway. Just gripe and discuss these issues without understanding the larger problems that lie beneath the surface.

That being said, I still say that this lack of control in the DR may actually be one of it's biggest strengths. Lack of control is essentially FREEDOM. This means that without laws and government telling you what you can and can't do... you pretty much can do whatever you want. I personally believe that most people are good at heart and conduct themselves peacefully with each other 99% of the time. We don't need the government putting its nose in all our business. As adults, we are responsible for our own actions and as such, if our stupidity kills us we have no one to blame but ourselves. I love this way of life... the freedom.

Even though the DR roads may seem chaotic to most foreigners, I assure you that there IS a method to this madness that these crazy drivers do seem to adhere to. Otherwise we'd see many more accidents. I'm no longer shocked at how they drive. I'm shocked that there are so few major accidents despite how they drive!

As a motorcyclist with tens of thousands of miles riding real motorcycles in the DR I can testify that riding here is no more dangerous than anywhere else. In fact, seeing how there are over 1.3 million motos out of 2.1 million registered vehicles-roughly equivalent to 6 times as many motos per capita than the states-I am constantly amazed there aren't MORE moto accidents here.

Yes, the conditions here are a challenge...IF you come from the sterile road environment in the First World and you've never ridien a motorcycle before-as I suspect many on this thread never really have. These guys and gals grow up here. To them, these conditions are as normal as can be.

MotoCaribe wrote a lengthy essay on how to ride motorcycles in the DR: Two Wheels in Paradise: A Definitive Survival Guide to Riding Motorcycles in the Dominican Republic A long, but hopefully informative read.

The #1 way to radically lower the death-by-moto stats here is to WEAR A REAL HELMET. I'll bet the deceased wasn't. And the #1 way to keep skin and bone intact in an accident on a moto is to WEAR PROTECTIVE GEAR. Gear can take a disasterous accident and make it an inconvenience. Sore and bruised is much better than dead. I can give First Person Testament to this.

True motorcyclists wear their gear like true car drivers wear their seatbelts.

Besides-it's a series of personal choices. If you want to remain as safe as possible, you gear up. If you want to take chances-and accept the consequences-you don't.

I hate to wake you from the dream that you most people in this country seem to be having things like this do not happen everywhere.
?Unfortunately these things happen everywhere.
Such as:
- bypassing of lineups if in a hurry
- drinking alcohol wherever you want
- showing up without an invitation
- bribing police/government officials
- excessive noise at all hours
- theft of electricity
- piracy of movies/music openly sold on the street
- copyright infringement
- businesses using famous people's photos to advertise without consent
- the list goes on and on...?
I have heard the misguided notion that the reason for many of the activities of the people on this island is that they are carefree. I suggest to you that there is a difference between being carefree and careless. A great many of the problems are the direct result of people being careless or so filled with self importance that they apparently feel that the law and rule of common sense does not apply to them.
No one in this venue has advocated total control but most have said some controls, common courtesy and common sense should be in place. A good start may be safety standards even handed enforcement of the law. It is noted that some of the people who operate motorcycles do so to support their families; but should their need to feed their family put anyone at risk or death or serious injury. In addition being a motor operator is not the only job in the D.R.

Whoa!!

You can testify that riding a motorcycle here is no more dangerous than anywhere else??? You will be thrown in jail for perjury. I imagine that most would lie to protect thier business ,eh Cobra?
I would imagine that Canada, with it's relatively low population and good roads would be safer,eh?
I drive a jeep, motorcycle and pasola here in the D.R. and every time I return home safe and sound, I kiss my garage floor!!!
Between livestock on the highways, lack of signal and brakelights, bald tires, awful roads, drunk drivers and an all out disregard for respect and safety, I am amazed we don,t see more deaths.
What is the saying?? God protects fools and drunks??Something like that.

you're not in kansas anymore. if you no likey, move. thx.

cobraboy said:

As a motorcyclist with tens of thousands of miles riding real motorcycles in the DR I can testify that riding here is no more dangerous than anywhere else. In fact, seeing how there are over 1.3 million motos out of 2.1 million registered vehicles-roughly equivalent to 6 times as many motos per capita than the states-I am constantly amazed there aren't MORE moto accidents here.

Yes, the conditions here are a challenge...IF you come from the sterile road environment in the First World and you've never ridien a motorcycle before-as I suspect many on this thread never really have. These guys and gals grow up here. To them, these conditions are as normal as can be.

MotoCaribe wrote a lengthy essay on how to ride motorcycles in the DR: Two Wheels in Paradise: A Definitive Survival Guide to Riding Motorcycles in the Dominican Republic A long, but hopefully informative read.

The #1 way to radically lower the death-by-moto stats here is to WEAR A REAL HELMET. I'll bet the deceased wasn't. And the #1 way to keep skin and bone intact in an accident on a moto is to WEAR PROTECTIVE GEAR. Gear can take a disasterous accident and make it an inconvenience. Sore and bruised is much better than dead. I can give First Person Testament to this.

True motorcyclists wear their gear like true car drivers wear their seatbelts.

Besides-it's a series of personal choices. If you want to remain as safe as possible, you gear up. If you want to take chances-and accept the consequences-you don't.

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"Truer words were never spoken"