That's basically what Leonel said yesterday in New York. They can't show any signs of progress on the Millennium Development Goals and they're still blaming Hipolito and the bank crisis. Every time i read or hear about Leonel or his lousy declarations i remember a quote on the movie "Phone Booth" said by Colin Farrell, "I lie so much i can run for president..."
- Thread starter JFD
- Start date
Hipolito's fault !
JFD, if you have lived in the DR long enough to assess some of the character traits of the populace, you will have noted that one of the ingrained aspects is the reflexive need to deflect blame for one?s actions. nobody takes ownership of his mistakes, or his failings. it is always someone else?s fault. my Canadian friend once had a crystal goose hierloom on her center table. the cleaning lady knocked it onto the floor, breaking it in a million pieces, an action which enraged my friend. the cleaning lady responded by informing her that it was her fault for having it there. semantically, she might be right, in a sinister sort of way, but that is the thinking. i have watched guys make bad plays , lose a domino game, and blame it on passersby for distracting them. it is no surprise that there is an excuse for everything, even at governmental level. those more lettered than i in the discipline of sociology can probably analyse why Dominicans display this immaturity regarding personal responsibility. that would explain why people like Leo blame the current state of the country on something which happened 8 years ago
Leonel is a part of this intellectual vacuum in DR politics. He said during the last elections that Dominican politicians were not sufficiently skilled to take part in Presidential debates, leaving no forum for the candidates to debate the issues.
He said because of this lack of skill in debating amongst his political adversaries, any debate would evolve into name-calling matches.
Who is he to make this judgment? Oh, of course he would say it because he was the one up for re-election.
He said because of this lack of skill in debating amongst his political adversaries, any debate would evolve into name-calling matches.
Who is he to make this judgment? Oh, of course he would say it because he was the one up for re-election.
well, the political discourse is nothing but accusations and name calling, as it stands. maybe some attempt to formalise it would do some good. it surely cannot make it any worse, since it is currently no better than a frat house food fight.
to gorgon
The same could be said about any populace.the affermentioned is a character trait that many nationalities possess.How many American wall street fatcats lined up to take blame for the economy.Lets not forget the 911 terrorist came from Canada . I am very much Dominican and have always taken full resposibility for my actions.
The same could be said about any populace.the affermentioned is a character trait that many nationalities possess.How many American wall street fatcats lined up to take blame for the economy.Lets not forget the 911 terrorist came from Canada . I am very much Dominican and have always taken full resposibility for my actions.
DRdaddy, i am not saying that this does not happen elsewhere. it is a matter of degree. if that was not the case, it would not be one of the most common observations of people who come here from other countries. they see buck passing in their homes, but never to the level that it happens here. here, everything is the fault of someone else.
DRdaddy, i do not visit tourist areas. i have lived in the DR, on and off, for 21 years, since the days of Balaguer. you are not talking to someone who spends a week at Playa Dorada twice per year. i am not making some hasty judgements. anything i speak on, i understand well, form many years of exposure.
DRdaddy, a group of young adults tried to stow away on a freighter, and there is concern at this time regarding their whereabouts. here is an excerpt from the clipping
The relatives gathered yesterday in the rear area of the Caucedo Port, and blamed the port’s security agents for allowing the missing men to get onboard and hide in one of the containers.
the relatives blamed the port security. they did not place the blame for stowing away on the guys who actually DID it. they place it on the guys who ALLOWED THEM TO DO IT. get the idea?
The relatives gathered yesterday in the rear area of the Caucedo Port, and blamed the port’s security agents for allowing the missing men to get onboard and hide in one of the containers.
the relatives blamed the port security. they did not place the blame for stowing away on the guys who actually DID it. they place it on the guys who ALLOWED THEM TO DO IT. get the idea?
but how is it particularly dominican in this case?
i mean, what was leonel supposed to say? "yeah, we could have spend more money on education and healthcare but you know... my buddies and me we make so much more money with useless billion dollar projects like the metro. we also do not particularly care about achieving the new millenium goals because a population that is ignorant and poor is to busy making ends meet and lacks the intellectual capacity to actually monitor how we are stealing from them."
when was the last time you heard any head of state own up to mistakes and shortcommings of his government?
LF's discourse before the UN body talking about the Millennium Objectives made me sick.
As has been so very well described above, he had an excuse for everything.
Not one mention of the $1.3 billion dollars spent on the Metro. Can anyone imagine that amount of money spent on health care??? or education?
And this year's budget (2011) will assign him about a billion dollars more to spend as he likes. These trips must be costing millions of dollars, because you can be absolutely positive that no one in that entourage is paying a penny for his expenses!!
Vomit is the thing that most closely resembles what he said at the UN.
HB
As has been so very well described above, he had an excuse for everything.
Not one mention of the $1.3 billion dollars spent on the Metro. Can anyone imagine that amount of money spent on health care??? or education?
And this year's budget (2011) will assign him about a billion dollars more to spend as he likes. These trips must be costing millions of dollars, because you can be absolutely positive that no one in that entourage is paying a penny for his expenses!!
Vomit is the thing that most closely resembles what he said at the UN.
HB
i have heard many heads of state whose speeches are on the order of ?we have achieved much, but we have much more left to do. ?this matter of blaming everyone else is not only a flaw of the politicians. it is a trait in the society. there is always an excuse for a failure to perform...always.
Gorgon Sounds like your just being stereotypical .So is Black people liking chicken engrained in their traits.Do all white people like mayo.i can get on google and pull up supporting evidence for all these stereotypes still doesnt make them true....even if its true most of the time.the majority of expats also reside in more affluent areas were these type of people tend to congragate. Im sorry that in 21 years you havent come across any people with values.Im just here to speak for the ones that do.So if your problem is personal and you want to vent your frustration ,I can understand that.Just know that in 30 years Ive known a different DR way of life,so your generalization is just that.
The Gorgon is on to something here, and I don't think he's generalizing or disparaging the Dominican character at all.
Many people feel that bringing back a strongman dictator like Trujillo would be the ticket out of this current mess, but no.
Some of these character traits that The Gorgon mentions were more than likely cemented in the Dominican psyche during Trujillos' rule. Imagine his underlings, the people whose job it was to implement his decrees. They knew from his ruthless behavior what awaited them if they had to deliver bad news. So passing the buck, under this system, became the ingrained norm and cemented in their heads how politics should be played if one wanted to get over.
Also, we must not underestimate the influence of the style of Spanish Colonial rule, which was disorganized, corrupt and totally without legitimacy. The Spaniards were pirates and hijackers of the highest order. It is no wonder that the DR, like many Latin American countries, suffer from similar degrees of egregious political corruption.
Such is the legacy left by the Spanish.
Many people feel that bringing back a strongman dictator like Trujillo would be the ticket out of this current mess, but no.
Some of these character traits that The Gorgon mentions were more than likely cemented in the Dominican psyche during Trujillos' rule. Imagine his underlings, the people whose job it was to implement his decrees. They knew from his ruthless behavior what awaited them if they had to deliver bad news. So passing the buck, under this system, became the ingrained norm and cemented in their heads how politics should be played if one wanted to get over.
Also, we must not underestimate the influence of the style of Spanish Colonial rule, which was disorganized, corrupt and totally without legitimacy. The Spaniards were pirates and hijackers of the highest order. It is no wonder that the DR, like many Latin American countries, suffer from similar degrees of egregious political corruption.
Such is the legacy left by the Spanish.
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Again the same could be said about any country including yours,corruption an unaccountability is not just home to the DR.Who are these many people you talk about,no dominican I've ever come across believes in the Trujillo days.Do all germans worship Hitler,Lets not talk about what americans did back in the day or what Europeans still do.People decide what choices their going to make, not their background, Im proof of that.
The type of relativism you're engaging in with this comment is sophomoric, and a clear indication that quite possibly you do not comprehend the main points in this thread.
That's not what I said. What exactly did you read that you comprehended my post in such a manner?
You misunderstood my post in a very strange way.
You do realize that this type of obfuscating is exactly what the OP is talking about, don't you?
How ironic.
Well all things aside, Banco Intercontinental was a Mejia affair. And there were stringent measures put in place to guarantee the $2B absconded in that time.
Remember the peso was about 14:1 last time LF was running the show in the old century. He may be onto something.
Remember the peso was about 14:1 last time LF was running the show in the old century. He may be onto something.
I don't think the lack of intelectual honesty (or just honesty) is specific to our politician. The problem is as there is no punishment at all, they're pushing the thing waaaaayyyyy too far. It doesn't matter the party or the color, each new government try to break the corruption record of the previous one. They're not even scared and we are building a culture of stealing. That is the real problem.