I am so ashamed to see my countrymen back in the streets again campaigning for a 2012 presidential elections that will throw us back another 50 years. Instead of going with the flow of current events, we drive against a one way street, maintaining the status quo with a bankrupt political system as bad or worst than any Mid East or North African. The fact that we have elections and not a dictator is what makes it so bad. We live in a dictatorial system supported by fake elections that perpetuate uncrowned monarchs whose abusive power makes them as bad as the Iranian Ayatollahs. In Licey Al Medio and Navarrete protests people get killed and nothing happens. But in Bahrain a government is about to fall with one or two killed. What would be the reaction of a Dominican revolt? Thousands dead. That's how much fear Dominicans have of any president elected here. Thousands risk their lives to take a boat into the ocean to flee the system instead of staying h ere and fighting back. No one dares to email and write others to call for a change..not of government, but the system that facilitates that three political parties supported by hundreds of parasite political groups ranging from communists, socialists to the farthest right or so-called alternative parties the continuation of this 'democratic' farse. When will the 'No' vote be a reality?
- Thread starter Golo100
- Start date
Dominicans swimming like salmons back to slavery
When the Government runs out of money and can no longer support it's ridiculous payroll, then you might see some noise from the people. Until then they will remain passive and subservient.
The IMF is now an accomplice with 'the *system' by giving it guidelines and funds legitimizing a putrid establishment. Dominican corrupt officials appeal to false nationalism everytime foreign nations criticize DR and act as little Chavezes. Instead, Obama and world powers should stop all foreign aid and let undeveloped nations seek their level. They only perpetuate this chaos. We're no different than Egypt or Lybia, except for elections. But we have kept Leonel and Chavez in power for 12 years using the democratic abyss. Peru may go back to Toledo again. We could end up with Hipolito. Its a merry-go-round of corrupted power. Juan Bosch's theory of Dictatorship with Popular Support comes alive. This is Bosch's dream come true, except his was to be led by socialists or communists, whereas our model could be headed by any ideological extreme or even the center. Ideology is not the driver, but rather the continuation of extreme populism, paternalism, government growth to replace private investment leading to nationalization. We are all about to become employees of the government. We have 3 times more government employees than the state of California. The entire USA federal employee staff is only 5 times ours with a population 35 times larger, while Americans fight back growth in government. Our armed forces were as large as American forces in Afghanistan during Bush. More than half of our state agencies and secretarias are unnecessary. Every lousy little town in DR wants to be a municipal capital and nothing grows faster than municipal and province officials that were non-salaried honorary personnel during Trujillo. Did you know Regidores were not salaried? We're not a republic or even a failed state. We are anarchy insitutionalized.
I suspect it's going to get ugly. Here, in conservative Las Lomas de Azua, there's strong grumblings. Local food distributors had to roll back the increased prices for basic food stuff, when no one was willing, or able, to pay the new prices. For how long, who knows. But I know that people are willing even to take up arms. Maybe if I was 30 years younger, I'll be willing to lead a rebellion. Anyway, if Trujillo, or his clone, would be alive today, he would take the entire DR Southwest "de calle".
I can only smile...
Dominicans get what they deserve. I am a supporter of free markets and capitalism. These people can not compete. They do not want to compete.
They do not have the gumption to demand transparent government and economic independence. They can starve for all I care, they have created their own bed with their large families and addictions. I like it here for family and because I dont really have to work. The people are the worst part. The status quo works because these people can be bought with a bottle of brugal.
Dominicans get what they deserve. I am a supporter of free markets and capitalism. These people can not compete. They do not want to compete.
They do not have the gumption to demand transparent government and economic independence. They can starve for all I care, they have created their own bed with their large families and addictions. I like it here for family and because I dont really have to work. The people are the worst part. The status quo works because these people can be bought with a bottle of brugal.
These guys look so trustworthy
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/28730583@N02/5463313987/" title="leo and the boys by rsaunders2008, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5218/5463313987_c758b5569f_z.jpg" width="640" height="475" alt="leo and the boys" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/28730583@N02/5463313987/" title="leo and the boys by rsaunders2008, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5218/5463313987_c758b5569f_z.jpg" width="640" height="475" alt="leo and the boys" /></a>
This culture of corruption in the DR is not only tolerated, but intrinsequely part of the national caracter or Dominican identity.
No one would take the street as you have at least one government employee in each family, be it a teacher, a nurse, an "ayuntamiento" person, or simply someone who directly benefit from them...
By the way, this is the "Dominican dream"...
Cobrar mucho sin hacer nada... Mejor que vender drogas...
Then, driving around in an overpriced brand new SUV, playing with BB Bold and spending "fin de semana larga" en Las Terrenas...
Who can change that ???? (rethorical question)
No one would take the street as you have at least one government employee in each family, be it a teacher, a nurse, an "ayuntamiento" person, or simply someone who directly benefit from them...
By the way, this is the "Dominican dream"...
Cobrar mucho sin hacer nada... Mejor que vender drogas...
Then, driving around in an overpriced brand new SUV, playing with BB Bold and spending "fin de semana larga" en Las Terrenas...
Who can change that ???? (rethorical question)
Sometimes I think you guys think we are on the verge of a civil war. Maybe you guys should go to the carnaval and see that people are too content in having a good time. Yes, people are suffering and complaining, but at least the latter is a national pastime so people shouldn't read too much into it.
Also, quit with all the comparisions to other countries like the Middle East or even Venezuela for that matter. The DR is a very homogeneous country with little racism or religious religious factions causing divisions. Top that off with a healthy respect for the church and strong familial and business relations with the US and you have a recipe for a great deal of tolerance of the idiots running the government.
Finally, I recognize that outrage many Dominican expats have regarding the situation here, as I did when I first came here and realized the extent of corruption, nonetheless most Dominicans don't have the same frame of reference to judge the political system that you guys do. Yes they know it's bad but really know little else as opposed to you guys who live in Western countries and know it can be different so therefore they, the locals, just aren't going to get as indignant.
Also, quit with all the comparisions to other countries like the Middle East or even Venezuela for that matter. The DR is a very homogeneous country with little racism or religious religious factions causing divisions. Top that off with a healthy respect for the church and strong familial and business relations with the US and you have a recipe for a great deal of tolerance of the idiots running the government.
Finally, I recognize that outrage many Dominican expats have regarding the situation here, as I did when I first came here and realized the extent of corruption, nonetheless most Dominicans don't have the same frame of reference to judge the political system that you guys do. Yes they know it's bad but really know little else as opposed to you guys who live in Western countries and know it can be different so therefore they, the locals, just aren't going to get as indignant.
Last edited:
E
engineerfg
Guest
Here's the good news, if you go to any of the political rallies here - there was one for "llego papa!" in mirador park recently, and one on the highway to the airport just yesterday giving me a 45 minute detour, you will find plenty of drunk tail with zero idea of what they're celebrating. Tread partisan and for sure you will get laid!
1. When it becomes harder to leave the country and
2. When people dont want to remit as much as they do and
THEN PEOPLE WILL ADVOCATE ON THEIR OWN BEHALF FOR CHANGE AND POLITICAL, SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC ACCOUNTABILITY.
3. The embolden part in RED is sheer lunacy which if true would be counterindicated by the embolden part in BLUE.
Other than that, the sentiment is they deserve what they get. As I see, they dont want things to change, at least not of their own accord. They want someone to change things for them, in their benefit and ask for nothing in return. Its the whole Give a man a fish parable, Chip.
Chip, not everyone here is an ex-pat. Don't forget we've always been party people, but in 50 years we have gone thru several major crises, including the 1965 local revolt(I refuse to call it 'revolucion), local because it was contained in tiny Ciudad Nueva and a hotel in Santiago, and the 1984 revolt against the PRD government of Salvador Jorge Blanco(deceased 2010). The coup against Bosch in 1962 was a revolt averted by the military. We also had a delicate situation when president Antonio Guzman committed suicide in office. The bases for revolt have been brewing in pilot situation in the area of Santiago with the FALPO groups in Licey Al Medio and Navarrete. Moca is a hot spot that was trouble for Trujillo too. We also have the Haitian factor. All the ingredients for a revolt are mixing in the pot. I am in the top of the upper middle class with a very stable economic condition, yet I am so frustrated and disgusted, that my glass is ready...I may not be ready to start something, but the minute people take the streets I will not hesitate go go out. I got caught in the middle of a riot in Herrera's Libertador and I ended up throwing rocks. I was visiting a girl. We got showered with smoke bombs by the police. I'm used to this stuff. Not afraid. If a no vote is allowed the no's may win right now despite conscience buying. But don't let happy party compacency fool you. we are as bad if not worst than Venezuela.
We have to disinfect this country by getting these powerful and corrupt leeches off our vains even if we have torch them.
I see a major disconnect among highly educated Dominicans like the bilingual members of the board as well as others such as those involved in journalism and/or have influence in the community in that it seems to them a "non issue" that by far the majority of Dominicans can't understand the majority of the major news publications and even news programs effectively to formulate an opinion and thus be piqued sufficiently to act accordingly.
Whether you Dominicans can see it or not this pride rooted in classism that is so overwhelmingly embraced here prevents many of these intellectuals and journalists that have influence from communicating in an "espa?ol llano" and therefore having wider influence. No I'm not talking about speaking callejero Spanish either using terms like vaina, joder, etc. Certainly there are exceptions at least from some television and radio shows I have seen and heard but many of these end up speaking the callejero Spanish which isn't taken seriously by many. Until these educated people of influence and journalists decide it is important to engage the populace as opposed to appearing as "educated" as possible we will just have to wait until the education levels in the country increase so that the locals get more involved with what is actually happening in the government in stead of being unhappy bystanders imo.
Whether you Dominicans can see it or not this pride rooted in classism that is so overwhelmingly embraced here prevents many of these intellectuals and journalists that have influence from communicating in an "espa?ol llano" and therefore having wider influence. No I'm not talking about speaking callejero Spanish either using terms like vaina, joder, etc. Certainly there are exceptions at least from some television and radio shows I have seen and heard but many of these end up speaking the callejero Spanish which isn't taken seriously by many. Until these educated people of influence and journalists decide it is important to engage the populace as opposed to appearing as "educated" as possible we will just have to wait until the education levels in the country increase so that the locals get more involved with what is actually happening in the government in stead of being unhappy bystanders imo.
You're giving Dominicans too much credit. Unfortunately we're very easily bought. Seen it many times or just look at these last elections how The PLD was able to get almost every seat just by throwing money around. The mentality is such that as long as I get mine, I don't really care where it came from or who got hurt in the process.
If someone wanted to start something The Police and military would kill tons of people without giving it a second thought to put down the "revolt". These guys are itching to use their weapons. Just look at how they treat peaceful demonstrations (Teachers, doctors, etc) where they beat the crap out of people without any provocation, so you're not going to get a situation like Egypt where they would just stand by and let things develop on their own.
If someone wanted to start something The Police and military would kill tons of people without giving it a second thought to put down the "revolt". These guys are itching to use their weapons. Just look at how they treat peaceful demonstrations (Teachers, doctors, etc) where they beat the crap out of people without any provocation, so you're not going to get a situation like Egypt where they would just stand by and let things develop on their own.
when your entire political history is characterised by the reigns of caudillos and dictators, you get used to being told what to do, and what is good for you. and, when everything in your life has a political quotient, you really do not want to rock the boat too hard. as one poster noted, everyone has some relative or friend who got where he is through politics. the DR will not change in the lifetimes of any of us. get used to it, and sip another presidente. that's what the locals do, when they can afford one.
when i first started coming to this country, 23 years ago, i would complain to my wife or her family about the power outages. "why doesn't somebody do something, the headhunters in Borneo have 24 hour power?", they'd all shrug and say "that's the way it is and will be". now we have generations that think "apagones" are normal, that other countries live this way..............
Sometimes it amazes me that so many people (expats and Dominicans from abroad) question so much and criticize the DR system, using their long time experience from abroad and elsewhere as parting point. First this is THE DR not the USA or UK or CAN or etc...
Each nation owns their own system of things, just like women feel just as beautiful garbed from head to toe in many of the muslim nations, so too Dominicans feel at home and comfortable paying off the cop after being stopped for speeding, drinking, etc...
Politics is a biz, not a public service! Whoever thinks that politicians bid for public seat out of civil duty and love for their country is blind or a moron.
Each person that took onto the political scheme, did so under the pretext of advancing their personal views and agendas unto others.
The DR's political system was a byproduct from internal rejection to outside controls. Even the office of the Presidency acknowledges this, when they used the "executive" power to pen their will unto the system.
If you're to see beyond your nose, you'll notice that the DR's political system is the true all inclusive and open for all people, no matter the background, social or economic breed they insert themselves from.
We have the system we deserve, because is the system we want and accept only.
The Curch is central in our system, both in family and politics. Morals are what they uphold and have no "pelos en la lengua" to voice when they feel the gov or population is transgressing it beyond what's acceptable and tolerated.
We're a country where "God" is not just a "motto" in our flag, but our belief in a supreme being. And yet, we respect 100% those that adore other Gods or follow diferent customs, to that of ours as well.
If the DR did follow the law to the letter, possibly over one third of expats residing in the DR now would be long gone or deported. The rest divided between those fighting to stay and meet the laws and those hoping to never have to deal with it again.
If you were to follow how laws came about, they all originated as a form to mediate how punishment was to be imparted. Laws were placed into place as tools to impart penalties, not to avoid them.
The DR system was born out of rejection for these same punitive laws, the ones rejected from the Colonial powers we sought to break free from. As such, even the mere fact that we adopted the Napoleonic legal system yet introduce more than one way of correlating punishment and pardon on the same terms, goes to show how repulsed we felt of imparting such punishment over our brethren.
Since you come from an overload of rules and laws that MUST be toed in first world countries or else the punishments, you see every instances of imparted leniencies at the basic levels of our system and above as extreme corruption.
The DR is democracy as good as it could get!
Each nation owns their own system of things, just like women feel just as beautiful garbed from head to toe in many of the muslim nations, so too Dominicans feel at home and comfortable paying off the cop after being stopped for speeding, drinking, etc...
Politics is a biz, not a public service! Whoever thinks that politicians bid for public seat out of civil duty and love for their country is blind or a moron.
Each person that took onto the political scheme, did so under the pretext of advancing their personal views and agendas unto others.
The DR's political system was a byproduct from internal rejection to outside controls. Even the office of the Presidency acknowledges this, when they used the "executive" power to pen their will unto the system.
If you're to see beyond your nose, you'll notice that the DR's political system is the true all inclusive and open for all people, no matter the background, social or economic breed they insert themselves from.
We have the system we deserve, because is the system we want and accept only.
The Curch is central in our system, both in family and politics. Morals are what they uphold and have no "pelos en la lengua" to voice when they feel the gov or population is transgressing it beyond what's acceptable and tolerated.
We're a country where "God" is not just a "motto" in our flag, but our belief in a supreme being. And yet, we respect 100% those that adore other Gods or follow diferent customs, to that of ours as well.
If the DR did follow the law to the letter, possibly over one third of expats residing in the DR now would be long gone or deported. The rest divided between those fighting to stay and meet the laws and those hoping to never have to deal with it again.
If you were to follow how laws came about, they all originated as a form to mediate how punishment was to be imparted. Laws were placed into place as tools to impart penalties, not to avoid them.
The DR system was born out of rejection for these same punitive laws, the ones rejected from the Colonial powers we sought to break free from. As such, even the mere fact that we adopted the Napoleonic legal system yet introduce more than one way of correlating punishment and pardon on the same terms, goes to show how repulsed we felt of imparting such punishment over our brethren.
Since you come from an overload of rules and laws that MUST be toed in first world countries or else the punishments, you see every instances of imparted leniencies at the basic levels of our system and above as extreme corruption.
The DR is democracy as good as it could get!