Have you guys read what this lunatic said?

I agree it's ridiculous for countless reasons, but Clinton started it and Obama administration is continuing the push, yet Doms love both. Huh?

Most commenters on DT (and shall here no doubt) get rabid about the issue, but they tend to be the same posters who rail against the same issue in the southwest U.S. where the basic issues are similar. Huh?

The plot thickens! I always thought it was a conspiracy between the British, French, Canadians and US...

Mind you Mr DR, some of your rantings give Le Professeur a run for his money.

Mr_DR said:

we will drive them to the sea

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Nice.

All these articles about the islands "reuinification" are rooted in ignorance and wishful thinking. It will never happen.

While it is true that there are Dominicans that hate Haitians the same can be said of Haitians with regard to Dominicans and maybe even more so. Fortunately, the DR has shown it's true colors since the earthquake with all the sincere gestures and help and thus the blithering idiots like the guy who wrote the article will have a diminished base of Haitians who will take them seriously.

This topic can get heated, so let's try and keep things civil in this thread. Carry on.

sounds to me like a greedy group of haitians has ruined it's own territory and now feels it has the right or justification to move east and de foliate, pollute and ravage the rest of the island.

Chirimoya said:

Mind you Mr DR, some of your rantings give Le Professeur a run for his money.

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I was thinking the same thing.

People can talk all they want, but I don't see the unification of Hispaniola under one nation (or a Caribbean Union) occuring in our lifetimes, for many reasons that have been stated on other threads by other persons.

On a tangent: if the international community really wants to assist Haiti, the place to begin would be to subsidize the price of natural gas and hand out stoves and propane tanks to the poor. It would put the charcoal makers out of business, certainly, but it would reduce deforestation and tensions along the border where charcoal makers cut Dominican forests.

It will never happen. Never, there is too much disparity in culture, language, economic development and history.

A war will break out first.

Brilliant!

puryear270 said:

I was thinking the same thing.

People can talk all they want, but I don't see the unification of Hispaniola under one nation (or a Caribbean Union) occuring in our lifetimes, for many reasons that have been stated on other threads by other persons.

On a tangent: if the international community really wants to assist Haiti, the place to begin would be to subsidize the price of natural gas and hand out stoves and propane tanks to the poor. It would put the charcoal makers out of business, certainly, but it would reduce deforestation and tensions along the border where charcoal makers cut Dominican forests.

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I think that community ovens would be a great place to start. The problems in Haiti are too numerous to address one family at a time and it seems to me that providing community resources to provide potable water, cooking facilities, healthcare and education should be the new government's top priority. Actually it should have been the old government's top priority.

The talk of creating a single nation on Hispaniola hasn't produced a single benefit and doesn't address the thoudands of potential problems. Haiti will once again be green and lush and productive but it will take years of planning and hard work. Let's hope that their new government is up to the task. If the aid which resulted from the 'quake is properly managed, that natural disaster could very well end up being remembered as "The Catastrophe That Saved A Nation".

I wonder where the author has been getting his crazy ideas. I've been to the Haitixchange site and read over thread that discuss how the Dominicans "stole" their side of the islands from Haiti but I find it hard to believe an educated historian could believe in such a distorted view of history. Odd too is what does the historian believe Dominicans will have to say about their apparently willingly submission of sovereignty? Perhaps he believes the US will invade and force the countries to join? I understand some people think the US is in the business of invading countries for all types of ulterior motives but what would the US have to gain in invading a non belligerent country that is by all accounts a good ally and trading partner?

Honestly, my own personal opinion is that the propaganda machine run by the Haitian government has done a very good job over the last two hundred years blaming a lot of what ails it on it's Dominican neighbors and foreigners in general. I have been told as much by a Haitian who only recognized it after they had move to the States as a young adult. Fortunately, what with the great involvement of the international community in Haiti currently I believe it is only a matter of a few short years before Haitians realize they have been misled as to the real cause of their woes - their own greedy leaders.

Chip said:

I wonder where the author has been getting his crazy ideas. I've been to the Haitixchange site and read over thread that discuss how the Dominicans "stole" their side of the islands from Haiti but I find it hard to believe an educated historian could believe in such a distorted view of history. Odd too is what does the historian believe Dominicans will have to say about their apparently willingly submission of sovereignty? Perhaps he believes the US will invade and force the countries to join? I understand some people think the US is in the business of invading countries for all types of ulterior motives but what would the US have to gain in invading a non belligerent country that is by all accounts a good ally and trading partner?

Honestly, my own personal opinion is that the propaganda machine run by the Haitian government has done a very good job over the last two hundred years blaming a lot of what ails it on it's Dominican neighbors and foreigners in general. I have been told as much by a Haitian who only recognized it after they had move to the States as a young adult. Fortunately, what with the great involvement of the international community in Haiti currently I believe it is only a matter of a few short years before Haitians realize they have been misled as to the real cause of their woes - their own greedy leaders.

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Good post. and certainly true.

Dont be surprised

Frank the Tank and Robert know well my first postings in DR1 were mostly related to Haiti and my oposition to a merger and in many instances a strong anti-Haitian thought. I supported Trujillo's massive deportation and Haitian cleansing, something even Juan Bosch had in mind when he was attempting an invasion and attack on Haiti's capital with his revolutionary government.
But times have made me change. Those who bear-hug the nationalistic flag against the Haitians have been caught sleeping the last 4 years. Unless you live, work and associate yourself in barrios and low income levels you will never realize what is going on. Granted, many of you see many Haitians in corners, working, doing business and even begging in the streets. But it is different seeing how Haitians have assimilated in the barrios.
I see if not a merger in the future, at the very least a Haitian born president, many Haitian legislators and Haitians permeating our social and political life in such numbers that assimilation will complete the merger without the formal institutionalization of one nation for all.
Haitians are practicly taking over our low income neighborhoods. They are everywhere in respectable numbers. They feel extremely comfortable in our communities. They speak their language without fear and so naturally it is mind boggling. It is not because they don not speak Spanish. Most of them do, well or partially well, contrary to Dominicans who care little about learning "Patua".
They stick together and live together in the same houses while they find their way. They have built their own social structure in DR. They work with us, along us and for us. There are Haitians in the business class moving in high society. Upper class Haitians whose children lost their schools in the earthquake have now enrolled in our top English speaking schools like Carol Morgan School. They have moved to upper class neighborhoods purchasing condos in hi-rises. Our universities are teaming with Haitians. Hospitals and clinics have nurses, doctors and medical specialists from Haiti. Several industries and agriculture is impossible without them.
It is only natural that this peaceful, though uneasy invasion of Haitians without their army will be successful in its objective of having two nations in one eventually. It is almost unavoidable. But it may be positive in the end. We Dominicans have failed in our mission to establish a state. We, like Haiti, are failed states. We do not deserve to be a nation. The last 50 years have taught us that we will not succeed in the trial of democracy. As a result Haitians have noticed the weakness of our institutions and our deep corruption. They found the hole in our armor. Now it's too late. The merger of Haiti and Dominican Republic is inevitable. And the irony of it all, is that because of our corrupted society, we are serving as immigration agents for Haitians thru the illegal traffic thru the border by our own army, government officials and our own citizens, who have found a way to profit from the Haitian human trade without regard for the consequences. We live with them. We are marrying them. We love their women. Their women love our men. We are so different yet so much alike. To those who keep pursuing the nationalistic ritual....forget it! Haitians are here to stay and in the end they may govern us again. In some ways I think their politicians are smarter than ours. Ours never learn the lessons of history. I personally do no longer hold a grudge against Haitians. In so many ways is like the old saying "I love my dog better than my wife" or so it goes. After knowing my Dominican compatriots, Haitians are becoming more and more attractive. I think Preval is a much better president than Leonel Fernandez. I would vote for him or for any of the Haitian presidential candidates before I vote for either of our candidates. For God's sake, I would even vote to have Obama or Bush rather than one of our own!

Cant weight for it to happen so I can hear what the pro-radical nationalistic Dominicans have to say about that. "Drive them to the sea", my ass.

US=Mexico relations are NOT the same as DR=Haiti relations. The latter example exists of 2 failed states walking around in the dark looking for dinner. Mexico's problem is that they never created a viable middle class so in order to better yourself you either have to leave the country or become a depraved Narco.

In some way Haitians have peacefully invaded us, however, laws have been enacted to prevent the illegals from gaining legal status, i.e. run for office or creat a legal minority within the country.

I just hope it wont be too late for us all to see what?s at steak and react in time to undo this peaceful invasion.

Wonder what would be public opinion if Woodrow Wilson didnt create the border in the early 20th Century?

Taino, laws preventing Haitians from participating in the big party called "Dominican democracy" and preventing them from becoming citizens are as good as laws giving orders of protection against abused women from their husband. Every day a Dominican woman is killed by her jilted lover, and what does he do? Commits suicide. The law is just a piece of paper in DR. Haitians have learned our ways and mastered the world of survival. They will imposed their will over our laws. They already have. The overwhelming majority of the 2 million we have here are illegals who broke all of our laws to get it. They own our maternity hospitals. They own the flea market at Luperon Avenue and block Autopista 30 de Mayo. They pay no taxes, and on and on. Forget it! Welcome your new brothers and let it go. It is useless.

Golo

Nice try but your all consuming, and just mind you, hate of the inept and corrupt Dominican political system as usual has tainted you opinion.

Growing up in the South I have been accustomed to the same type of alarmist commentary but aimed at the Mexican "invasion". Some may say that the "Mexicans" have been successful because to many Americans any Spanish language business, tv or radio station is proof, whether Mexican or not. The fact is the US and Mexico won't be merging any time soon in spite of such rhetoric and therefore it is fairly incredulous to believe that the Haitians will be taking over the DR anytime soon when they have nary a Haitian named business, voodu church radio nor much less a tv station here in the DR. What they will continue to do is integrate into the Dominican society as they have been doing for the last 200 years.

Golo I believe your hatred of the government and many Dominicans for that matter, disqualifys you from making sound and unbiassed comments towards the laws of this country.

Chip said:

they have nary a Haitian named business, voodu church radio nor much less a tv station here in the DR. What they will continue to do is integrate into the Dominican society as they have been doing for the last 200 years.

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I had lunch at B & B Epis Kreol in CZ when they first opened. The food was good, plentiful and the Prestige was a nice departure. As I stood outside for a smoke after the meal I noticed one SUV containing a pair of Dominicanos who seemed rather upset that there was a Haitian restaraunt there. Everybody else who passed never gave the place a second thought or looked twice.

I can see why some Haitians would be hesitant to open an establishment featuring authentic Haitian anything. The minority of Dominicans who are utterly anti Haitian (not just illegal immigrants) is as vocal as it is small. Some hatred runs so deep that it has no solution. It just is, always has been and always will be.