Dominican Cigars: "Second-Fiddle" to Cubans?

jet · Mar 1, 2011

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/nyregion/27joint.html?_r=1&scp=4&sq=dominican%20republic%20&st=cse

In this New York Times article, the author Alan Feuer calls the Dominican cigars "second-fiddle Dominicans".

The following is a letter sent to him by me:

Dear Mr. Feuer:

As a proud Dominican-American as well as a cigar aficionado, I feel the need to intervene and say, how dare you in this day and age even instigate that Dominican cigars are indeed of ?second-fiddle? quality to Cuban cigars?

The only reason why Cuban cigars are still in such ?high-demand? and hence are ?popular? is due to the ?forbidden fruit? aura still surrounding these almost mythical products.

The Dominicans are certainly leading the way with cigars exports throughout the United States and the rest of the world with their Macanudo brand and yes, dare I say it, the Cuban-Dominican family of Arturo Fuente, with their nominations of Hemingway?s and the up and coming Fuente Fuente Opus X, with its pure Dominican-bread wrapper.

Even if the embargo to Cuba is lifted, the Dominican-made cigars will still dominate the market for decades to come if not centuries.

This is not a Seinfeld episode, don, and do please know that many Dominicans indeed read the New York Times and are probably fuming (No pun intended) over your ridiculous statement.

Sincerely,

Me
***********

Comments?

rice&beans · Mar 1, 2011

Originated in Cuba, but now made in the Dominican Republic. I think La Romana?

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/51418611@N05/5487610831/" title="romeoyjulieta by bocachica64, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5257/5487610831_fa84877068.jpg" width="370" height="65" alt="romeoyjulieta" /></a>

Can't go wrong with these....

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/51418611@N05/5488207954/" title="large_macanudo-cru-royale-prod-shot-box by bocachica64, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5100/5488207954_1646a2b1fb.jpg" width="450" height="450" alt="large_macanudo-cru-royale-prod-shot-box" /></a>

As far as the letter. Even though some Dominicans may be "FUMING", they must realize the article was probably written by some old "STOGIE". It was kinda tame, so I don't think he'll be "SMOKING" mad, or for that matter huffing and "PUFFING"....

But I think you made your point.

Just curious, when you wrote the letter. Was it "HUMIDOR" cool, when you were writing the actual letter?

Not important......

MerengueDutchie · Mar 1, 2011

This is utter drivel.

The main difference between Dominican and Cuban cigars is in their taste, not in the technical quality of the product.

Dominican cigars are mainly produced and heavily influenced by the US market and its taste. The US taste tends to run towards lighter tasting cigars.

Cuban cigars are mainly produced for the European market, where a stronger product is preferred.

Other than the taste preference Cuban and Dominican cigars are both comparable top grade products. So preference is based upon personal taste not on quality.

MerengueDutchie · Mar 1, 2011

Romeo y Julieta and all the old brands are still made in Cuba.

rice&beans · Mar 1, 2011

More drivel....

MerengueDutchie........Romeo y Julieta and all the old brands are still made in Cuba.

Romeo y Julieta cigars are made in Cuba AND the Dominican Republic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_y_Julieta_(cigar)

As far as the European market....

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/51418611@N05/5488407811/" title="VegaFinaBox by bocachica64, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5052/5488407811_0838040b34.jpg" width="305" height="335" alt="VegaFinaBox" /></a>

Very popular, also made in the DR....

Chip · Mar 1, 2011

I occasionally smoke cigars and therefore only do for taste and not name. From what I understand among the real aficionados taste has nothing to do with it but the name. This is from an client from Florida who smokes Cubans on a regular enough basis. Me, I would rather have a nice, mild smoke with little aftertaste than spend US15 on one cigar and then have to deal with "toilet bowl mouth" for the next three days.

greydread · Mar 1, 2011

MerengueDutchie said:
Other than the taste preference Cuban and Dominican cigars are both comparable top grade products. So preference is based upon personal taste not on quality.

They should put this on each box

There are definitely "better" cigars and "not-so-much" cigars and most of that has as much to do with HOW the cigars are made as what's in them. You won't get an even 3" ash off a White Owl.

The reason that some Cuban brands have licensed Dominican manufacturers to wear their label (ie CAOBA/ COHIBA) is that the quality of their filler/binder/wrapper tobacco and rolling process is of the highest standard. Color variations and other flaws are carefully sorted out in this level of processing and the buyer gets a box of 25 cigars which may have been rolled by different people on different days from different bales but are indistinguishable from one another.

Hillbilly · Mar 1, 2011

The reason that some Cuban brands have licensed Dominican manufacturers to wear their label (ie CAOBA/ COHIBA) is that the quality of their filler/binder/wrapper tobacco and rolling process is of the highest standard. Color variations and other flaws are carefully sorted out in this level of processing and the buyer gets a box of 25 cigars which may have been rolled by different people on different days from different bales but are indistinguishable from one another.

You are WAY off base "Beard", I mean way, way off base.
NO Cuban brands have ever, ever been "authorized" to be made in Dominican factories.
What happened was that factory owners and manufacturers that fled Cuba opened factories here and elsewhere and obtained the legal copyright to the brands inthe United States market. They cannot sell product in Europe, since Cuba retained the marketing rights, but since the US embargoed Cuban products, they can be sold in the US if made here.

THAT is why Altadis, the giant fusion of the Spanish and French monopolies on cigar imports and the owner of the selling rights for many of the old Cuban name brands is manufacturing cigars here in La Romana. They will be the prime importers of Cuban cigars when the embargo is lifted.

FYI CAOBA and Cohiba are two entirely different cigars.

As for the OP's letter? Too many typical spelling mistakes to be taken seriously by anyone at NY Times:

Dear Mr. Feuer:

As a proud Dominican-American as well as a cigar aficionado, I feel the need to intervene and say, how dare you in this day and age even instigate insinuatethat Dominican cigars are indeed of “second-fiddle” quality to Cuban cigars?

The only reason why Cuban cigars are still in such “high-demand” and hence are “popular” is due to the “forbidden fruit” aura still surrounding these almost mythical products.

The Dominicans are certainly leading the way with cigars exports throughout the United States and the rest of the world with their Macanudo brand and yes, dare I say it, the Cuban-Dominican family of Arturo Fuente, with their nominations of Hemingway’s and the up and coming Fuente Fuente Opus X, with its pure Dominican-bread bredwrapper.

Even if the embargo to Cuba is lifted, the Dominican-made cigars will still dominate the market for decades to come if not centuries.

This is not a Seinfeld episode, don Just say sir, and do(eliminate this word) please know that many Dominicans indeed read the New York Times and are probably fuming smoking hot(No pun intended) over your ridiculous statement.

Sincerely,

I do not wish to ridicule your letter and I am in total agreement with your statements.
I even understood why you thought "fuming" might be a pun (but only if you are totally bi-lingual and get it!! Fumar is not equal to fuming...jijiji...

and "Dominican-bread is "pan de agua" or "pan sobao" ....another jijiji...

To me the major difference is excellence in the manufacturing process. There are too many poorly made Cubans coming out of Havana these days. You would have to smoke a few boxes of Fuente or Tabacalera Garcia or Macanudos or Gloria Cubanos or Flor Dominicanos or any of the other even smaller brands before you came upon a "plugged" or too-loosely made cigar.

THE cigar guy.

HB

greydread · Mar 1, 2011

Hillbilly said:
[You are WAY off base "Beard", I mean way, way off base.
NO Cuban brands have ever, ever been "authorized" to be made in Dominican factories.
FYI CAOBA and Cohiba are two entirely different cigars.

Hillyboo,
(since we're making up handles for one another now)

I know that Caoba and Cohiba are two different brands

I also know that Caoba was licensed to use the Cohiba band

Did you not know this?

fondly,

Greybread

Hillbilly · Mar 1, 2011

Graydread: My bad! I wanted to write "dread" as I have before. My apologies.

However, allow me to make something really really clear.

NOBODY is this WHOLE WORLD is "licensed" to make Cohibas except Habanos, S.A. in Havana, Cuba. NOBODY.. Those f_(*&ers at CAOBA are nothing but counterfeiting Mofos.

Word!

They are the lowest of the low.

That said, General Cigars and Habanos have been fighting for years because General is marketing a Dominican-made "Cohiba" with a Red Dot, but neither the yellow and black checked ring or the little girl with the pony-tail. I think I saw where Habanos won the case, by the way.

HB (I also thought I had put this up an hour ago??? I must be gettin old!)

corsair74 · Mar 1, 2011

Hillbilly said:
[
To me the major difference is excellence in the manufacturing process. There are too many poorly made Cubans coming out of Havana these days. You would have to smoke a few boxes of Fuente or Tabacalera Garcia or Macanudos or Gloria Cubanos or Flor Dominicanos or any of the other even smaller brands before you came upon a "plugged" or too-loosely made cigar.

THE cigar guy.

HB

I am in total agreement here. I purchased a number of Cubans during my last trip to Colombia. One was plugged so badly that I couldn't even get a good draw on it. And I tried everything, including the last resort method of inserting a straightened metal hanger down the length of the cigar. Nothing worked. And this was a $25 Cohiba Habano. It was the worst cigar I'd ever smoked.

Now, the rest of the cubans I purchased were most excellent. But that one poorly rolled stick made me wonder how something like that could have made it to market. Never had a dominican brand that poorly constructed. And I've smoked literally thousands since I took up the habit 10 years ago.

Vince.

"Journeyman" Aficionado

PICHARDO · Mar 1, 2011

MerengueDutchie said:
This is utter drivel.

The main difference between Dominican and Cuban cigars is in their taste, not in the technical quality of the product.

Dominican cigars are mainly produced and heavily influenced by the US market and its taste. The US taste tends to run towards lighter tasting cigars.

Cuban cigars are mainly produced for the European market, where a stronger product is preferred.

Other than the taste preference Cuban and Dominican cigars are both comparable top grade products. So preference is based upon personal taste not on quality.

The only place where Cuban cigars are extremely restricted (since you still can bring a certain amount from abroad) is the USA, not the whole world, where Dominican and Cuban cigars vie for smokers alike.

Guess what? Cuba does play second (or better said third) fiddle to DR cigars all over Europe and most markets!!

This is the same nonsense played out in the tourism industry between the DR and Cuba compares. Again! The only ones not able to visit Cuba freely are US citizens, all other tourists can hop on a plane or boat and be there when they so feel like.

The bulk of US tourists are IA low budget RR seekers, a niche the DR is moving away from and prove of that is the way cheap/low cost attractions like Sosua are they way they are today, whilst the east is pumping iron.

When you smoke a Cuban cigar in Europe, there's nothing in the aura of "forbidden" fruit to it. Side by side, Dominican cigars are the one on the top from the two in those markets.

Just keep in mind that DR goods are still not competitive enough in relation to their markets, much due to the lack of synergies at home in the DR.

The same plays true when you compare travel costs from anywhere to DR and Cuba. The DR taxes are the extreme in the Caribbean, Cuba is a long way back as second fiddle in that line to DR.

Either way both nations have very good products and good or bad, let people decide what they prefer to puff!

jet · Mar 1, 2011

Hillbilly said:
As for the OP's letter? Too many typical spelling mistakes to be taken seriously by anyone at NY Times:

Dear Mr. Feuer:

As a proud Dominican-American as well as a cigar aficionado, I feel the need to intervene and say, how dare you in this day and age even instigate insinuatethat Dominican cigars are indeed of ?second-fiddle? quality to Cuban cigars?

The only reason why Cuban cigars are still in such ?high-demand? and hence are ?popular? is due to the ?forbidden fruit? aura still surrounding these almost mythical products.

The Dominicans are certainly leading the way with cigars exports throughout the United States and the rest of the world with their Macanudo brand and yes, dare I say it, the Cuban-Dominican family of Arturo Fuente, with their nominations of Hemingway?s and the up and coming Fuente Fuente Opus X, with its pure Dominican-bread bredwrapper.

Even if the embargo to Cuba is lifted, the Dominican-made cigars will still dominate the market for decades to come if not centuries.

This is not a Seinfeld episode, don Just say sir, and do(eliminate this word) please know that many Dominicans indeed read the New York Times and are probably fuming smoking hot(No pun intended) over your ridiculous statement.

Sincerely,

I do not wish to ridicule your letter and I am in total agreement with your statements.
I even understood why you thought "fuming" might be a pun (but only if you are totally bi-lingual and get it!! Fumar is not equal to fuming...jijiji...

and "Dominican-bread is "pan de agua" or "pan sobao" ....another jijiji...

To me the major difference is excellence in the manufacturing process. There are too many poorly made Cubans coming out of Havana these days. You would have to smoke a few boxes of Fuente or Tabacalera Garcia or Macanudos or Gloria Cubanos or Flor Dominicanos or any of the other even smaller brands before you came upon a "plugged" or too-loosely made cigar.

THE cigar guy.

HB

Thank you for the corrections, HB!

Regarding these corrections, I was indeed thinking that he was instigating something instead of insinuating (Because he did make a statement that was in no manner "indirect", but pretty much direct!), however, my sentence structure does not show that!

Also, "bred" in clearly the past participle of "breed" and I forgot to check spelling for that one. Double "jijiji"s for the pan de agua or sobao facts!

And the "pun" regarding the "fuming" perhaps came up because in Latin this word is "Fumare" or "to smoke" and hence the Spanish word, "Fumar"... And "Fuming" does gets its roots from this word according to its etymology.

Anyway, I'm glad that you do get the points that I'm trying to get across. I will make the corrections accordingly and resend him the letter
************

rice&beans,

Thanks for the humorous post! Great way to include cigar jargon into the conversation... I really enjoyed that And to answer your question, yes, I was kind of ticked that he so bluntly made that statement in an article that was supposed to "advertise" a good Dominican cigar place in New York.
************
Anyway,

Thank you all for your replies!

MerengueDutchie · Mar 2, 2011

rice&beans said:
MerengueDutchie........Romeo y Julieta and all the old brands are still made in Cuba.

Romeo y Julieta cigars are made in Cuba AND the Dominican Republic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_y_Julieta_(cigar)

As far as the European market....

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/51418611@N05/5488407811/" title="VegaFinaBox by bocachica64, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5052/5488407811_0838040b34.jpg" width="305" height="335" alt="VegaFinaBox" /></a>

Very popular, also made in the DR....

I guess I wasn't clear first time around... I meant to say what Hillbilly already indicated in his post.. regarding the use of Cuban brands in the DR.

MerengueDutchie · Mar 2, 2011

PICHARDO said:
The only place where Cuban cigars are extremely restricted (since you still can bring a certain amount from abroad) is the USA, not the whole world, where Dominican and Cuban cigars vie for smokers alike.

Guess what? Cuba does play second (or better said third) fiddle to DR cigars all over Europe and most markets!!

This is the same nonsense played out in the tourism industry between the DR and Cuba compares. Again! The only ones not able to visit Cuba freely are US citizens, all other tourists can hop on a plane or boat and be there when they so feel like.

The bulk of US tourists are IA low budget RR seekers, a niche the DR is moving away from and prove of that is the way cheap/low cost attractions like Sosua are they way they are today, whilst the east is pumping iron.

When you smoke a Cuban cigar in Europe, there's nothing in the aura of "forbidden" fruit to it. Side by side, Dominican cigars are the one on the top from the two in those markets.

Just keep in mind that DR goods are still not competitive enough in relation to their markets, much due to the lack of synergies at home in the DR.

The same plays true when you compare travel costs from anywhere to DR and Cuba. The DR taxes are the extreme in the Caribbean, Cuba is a long way back as second fiddle in that line to DR.

Either way both nations have very good products and good or bad, let people decide what they prefer to puff!

Pichardo,

1. From my contacts within the industry there are two main markets for the cigar industry; Europe and the USA. Africa, Australia and Asia at this moment do not make up large markets, although Asia is growing. In my observation Cuban cigars do not play second fiddle in the European market.

2. I still stand by my personal observation that the cuban cigars usually have a heavier taste than most Dominican brands. This originated from the difference in preference between the USA and European markets. Heavier cigars sell better in the European market than in the USA.

3. I think that regarding the tourist industry there is no comparison between Cuba and the DR. The quality in the DR is better. Pricewise the DR is slightly more expensive but you get tired of pan con jamon y queso all the time in Cuba.
Cuba only has mediocre level of hotels and food, with a few exceptions in Havana, whereas the DR has a few excellent resorts.

Still Cuba has much more historical sites (La Havana, Pinar del Rio, Trinidad, Santiago and much, much more).. it's history is also much more interesting and more documented.
Imo this is were the countries strong points are.

Kyle · Mar 2, 2011

flavor, body, filler, wrapper, draw, burn consistency, and overall smoking experience is what i measure a good cigar by. personally i'm a Hoya man from nicaragua.

bob saunders · Mar 2, 2011

MerengueDutchie said:
Pichardo,

1. From my contacts within the industry there are two main markets for the cigar industry; Europe and the USA. Africa, Australia and Asia at this moment do not make up large markets, although Asia is growing. In my observation Cuban cigars do not play second fiddle in the European market.

2. I still stand by my personal observation that the cuban cigars usually have a heavier taste than most Dominican brands. This originated from the difference in preference between the USA and European markets. Heavier cigars sell better in the European market than in the USA.

3. I think that regarding the tourist industry there is no comparison between Cuba and the DR. The quality in the DR is better. Pricewise the DR is slightly more expensive but you get tired of pan con jamon y queso all the time in Cuba.
Cuba only has mediocre level of hotels and food, with a few exceptions in Havana, whereas the DR has a few excellent resorts.

Still Cuba has much more historical sites (La Havana, Pinar del Rio, Trinidad, Santiago and much, much more).. it's history is also much more interesting and more documented.
Imo this is were the countries strong points are.

I would have to agree with your remarks on Cuba. My Dad is a confirmed smoker of Honduran cigars, and recent switched to Philippine cigars. He no longer buys Dominican and Cuban cigars, although both are readily available here in Canada.
The Fifty Best Cigars - Volume 1

greydread · Mar 2, 2011

Hillbilly said:
However, allow me to make something really really clear.

NOBODY is this WHOLE WORLD is "licensed" to make Cohibas except Habanos, S.A. in Havana, Cuba. NOBODY.. Those f_(*&ers at CAOBA are nothing but counterfeiting Mofos.

Word!

They are the lowest of the low.

A Domincan lied to me? OMG!

greydread · Mar 2, 2011

bob saunders said:
I would have to agree with your remarks on Cuba. My Dad is a confirmed smoker of Honduran cigars, and recent switched to Philippine cigars. He no longer buys Dominican and Cuban cigars, although both are readily available here in Canada.
The Fifty Best Cigars - Volume 1

Rocky Patel is the best of the moderately priced sticks IMO. That guy is relatively new to the cigar making business (11 yrs.) but it doesn't show in his products. Very informative and entertaining web site as well.

:: ROCKY PATEL PREMIUM CIGARS

Hillbilly · Mar 2, 2011

And we sell a lot of tobacco to Nicaragua and Honduras. I enjoy cigars from Central America (Costa Rica, Nicaragua and Honduras) they have a distinct flavor, and are generally well made. Dominican cigars run the gamut. You can find truly memorable, outstanding, awesome cigars and you might find the odd "dog rocket" every now and then.

Cigars are like women, there is a nearly infinate variety. However, cigars are less complicated.

HB

Dominican Cigars: "Second-Fiddle" to Cubans?

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