Do you need an UPS with inverter?

SNH

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Jul 24, 2010
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Currently running a 4 battery inverter in apartment, was curious does the inverter also regulate the voltage to prevent spikes to the electronics (specific laptop) that are plugged in directly to the electrical outlets.

Or do I need to purchase an UPS (uninterruptible power supply) also?

If so any suggested brands I saw a 500w unipower for $1800 @duplex computer store in cabarete.

I googled the OMEGA brand that was recommended but didn't find any info on them.

I'm in Cabarete.
 

AlterEgo

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I think it's supposed to regulate the voltage....but we found out that our microwave will only work if it's plugged into a voltage regulator that's plugged into an outlet. Otherwise we don't get high enough voltage.

AE
 

Olly

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Mar 12, 2007
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Invertors switch over in about 20 to 30 milliseconds and it is wise to have a UPS following them in your circuit. Most UPS here have surge protection in them as well and switch over in less than 10 Milliseconds so computors don't see it at all.
We have that here and have little probems with all the computers
As to brands we have Omega UPS which are manufactured here and designed for the surges and spikes.

HTH
Olly
 

cobraboy

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What Olly says is true. An inverter usually doesn't switch fast enough to act as a UPC.
 

dv8

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we have an inversor and it is fine for laptops, even with power surges and whatever other problems. we also have a UPS connected to a computer tower for modem and phones. extra protection, call it.
 

SNH

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I'm not really worried about the time it takes to switch over to the inversor/inverter the few seconds is fine.

My main concern is protection against power surges, etc by leaving my laptop plugged into the wall outlet.

Does the inversor protect against the power surges also? Or is it necessary to get an UPS?

Sorry wasn't clear in the original post.
 

cobraboy

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Does the inversor protect against the power surges also? Or is it necessary to get an UPS?
Your entire electrical system must be grounded.

UPS is very cheap insurance.
 

westom

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Currently running a 4 battery inverter in apartment, was curious does the inverter also regulate the voltage to prevent spikes to the electronics (specific laptop) that are plugged in directly to the electrical outlets.
I am confused by the question. A UPS contains an inverter. That inverter generates 120 volts AC from DC batteries.

Some of the 'dirtiest' power electronics will see comes from that UPS inverter. For example, this 120 volt UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. A UPS output can be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. Is ideal power to all electronics because electronics are routinely so robust. Those UPS numbers are ideal power for all electronics.

Any protection on an appliance power cord is already done better inside the appliance. Nothing stops a surge. Either the surge is made completely irrelevant by protection inside an appliance. Or that surge blows through that superior protection. If you need surge protection, then upgrade the only item that must always exist in any effective protection system - earth ground.

What is inside electronics? Inverters that are often more robust. Often rated to withstand thousands of volts without damage.

'Dirtiest' power from a UPS or cleaner power from AC mains is converted by electronics to well over 300 volts DC. Then converted to even 'dirtier' radio waves. Those and other conversions done with filters between every conversion. Worrying about 'clean' power is futile. Electronics completely undoes that cleaning. Then its superior circuits convert that 'dirtier' power to 'cleanest' and stable low voltage DC. Appliances that do not make 'dirty' power irrelevant are motorized appliances (ie microwave oven).

Sometimes UPS power is so 'dirty' as to confuse power factor correction circuits inside newer electronics. To say more means many technical numbers including %THD. Most UPS manufacturers 'forget' those facts since some of the 'dirtiest' power is generated by a typical UPS in battery backup mode. Manufacturers want you to assume it outputs 'clean' power.

View its spec numbers for surge protection. Hundreds of joules. Just above zero so that advertising can claim 100% protection. Its only function is to provide temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. Designed as cheaply as possible so that 'dirty' power (ie from another UPS) may even confuse it. Cause it to remain in battery backup mode. Cause its batteries to quickly discharge.

I am confused by what problem you are trying to solve when a UPS also contains an inverter. And connects appliances directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode.
 

SNH

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Jul 24, 2010
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I am confused by the question. A UPS contains an inverter. That inverter generates 120 volts AC from DC batteries.

Some of the 'dirtiest' power electronics will see comes from that UPS inverter. For example, this 120 volt UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. A UPS output can be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. Is ideal power to all electronics because electronics are routinely so robust. Those UPS numbers are ideal power for all electronics.

Any protection on an appliance power cord is already done better inside the appliance. Nothing stops a surge. Either the surge is made completely irrelevant by protection inside an appliance. Or that surge blows through that superior protection. If you need surge protection, then upgrade the only item that must always exist in any effective protection system - earth ground.

What is inside electronics? Inverters that are often more robust. Often rated to withstand thousands of volts without damage.

'Dirtiest' power from a UPS or cleaner power from AC mains is converted by electronics to well over 300 volts DC. Then converted to even 'dirtier' radio waves. Those and other conversions done with filters between every conversion. Worrying about 'clean' power is futile. Electronics completely undoes that cleaning. Then its superior circuits convert that 'dirtier' power to 'cleanest' and stable low voltage DC. Appliances that do not make 'dirty' power irrelevant are motorized appliances (ie microwave oven).

Sometimes UPS power is so 'dirty' as to confuse power factor correction circuits inside newer electronics. To say more means many technical numbers including %THD. Most UPS manufacturers 'forget' those facts since some of the 'dirtiest' power is generated by a typical UPS in battery backup mode. Manufacturers want you to assume it outputs 'clean' power.

View its spec numbers for surge protection. Hundreds of joules. Just above zero so that advertising can claim 100% protection. Its only function is to provide temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. Designed as cheaply as possible so that 'dirty' power (ie from another UPS) may even confuse it. Cause it to remain in battery backup mode. Cause its batteries to quickly discharge.

I am confused by what problem you are trying to solve when a UPS also contains an inverter. And connects appliances directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode.


I am asking about the inversor/inverter that powers the whole apt when the power goes out (4 batteries & inversor thats tied into the fuse box)

In addition to the inversor (mentioned above) do you also need an UPS box like (APS, OMEGA) to protect against power surges?

Or does the inversor/inverter that is tied into the fuse box regulate voltage and protect against power surges also.

Hope that clarifies.
 

cobraboy

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I am asking about the inversor/inverter that powers the whole apt when the power goes out (4 batteries & inversor thats tied into the fuse box)

In addition to the inversor (mentioned above) do you also need an UPS box like (APS, OMEGA) to protect against power surges?

Or does the inversor/inverter that is tied into the fuse box regulate voltage and protect against power surges also.

Hope that clarifies.
1) a properly grounded inverter system acts as a surge suppressor.

2) An inverter doesn't generally switch fast enough to act as a UPS for a computer. A laptop with a battery, yes. A plug-in computer, no.

We have one plug-in computer @ Camp Moto and an inverter set for a fast switchover. The computer almost always goes down when the power goes out. We now have a UPS and the plug in never goes down.
 

windeguy

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I purchased a UPS that does not recognize when it is powered by an inverter. In other words, inverter power to that UPS is just like power is off. I did get it in the US. I am hoping if you do purchase a UPS in the DR that it will simply carry you over the inverter's switching times as the power comes and goes. That UPS ended up being useless to me.

I have a voltage regulator for my TV/Stereo system just a a precaution for my flat screen TV. I have no other surge suppressors or UPS systems at this time. If I use a desktop computer, I do run the risk of it being reset when street power comes on or goes off because of the switching time of the inverter. I normally use a laptop that has no issues with the inverter's switching time.
 

Eddy

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Make sure your UPS will work with an invertor. Several makes (Brands) don't.
 

westom

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In addition to the inversor (mentioned above) do you also need an UPS box like (APS, OMEGA) to protect against power surges?
Temporary power and surges are two completely different issues.

All electronics must be so robust as to make surges generated by a UPS (in battery backup mode) irrelevant. Go back and read those numbers (ie 270 volts). Why are spikes and other anomalies generated by a UPS potentially harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors? Because electronics are so robust as to make those anomalies irrelevant.

Computers are required to operate without any interruption for 17 milliseconds. Many will work much longer. Whereas a 20 or 30 millisecond delay by the 'whole house' inverter is technically bad, some computers will still work uninterrupted. Does not matter. The numbers say that 20 or 30 millisecond delay is too long. So the cheapest UPS with the dirtiest output (that takes about 10 milliseconds to switch over) should be sufficient.

Also grasp what eddy has posted. Inverters can output very 'dirty' power. A UPS is often made as cheap as possible. Therefore can be confused by dirty power; would quickly discharge its battery. Unfortunately, most UPS manufacturers will not provide numbers that quantify that problem because they quietly expect AC power to be so 'clean'. On site testing may be necessary.

Above is temporary power. Surges are something completely different. Most all surges are made irrelevant by how electronics are designed. Your only concern is the rare surge that can overwhelm protection inside all electronics. If that surge is earthed before entering the building, then nothing is damaged. Otherwise that surge goes hunting for earth inside and destructively via appliances. That surge selects which appliance to damage.

Nothing on an appliance power cord will do better than what is already inside. So that superior protection is not overwhelmed, you must earth every wire inside every incoming cable. For example, if AC has three wires, then all three must connect short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth. One makes that connection directly. Other two must be earthed via a 'whole house' protector. Protection is not the near zero component inside a UPS. Protection is a dedicated and low impedance ('less than 10 foot') connection to single point earth ground. Only the earth ground does protection. Protectors either connect short to that protection - or do virtually nothing.

Protection inside a UPS is near zero. Just enough above zero so that advertising can hype massive protection subjectively. Temporary power and surge protection are different solutions to two completely different problems.

Having said that, sometimes an inverter at the service entrance already contains a 'whole house' protector. Therefore that inverter must make the low impedance connection to single point earth ground.
 
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CaptnGlenn

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I was always under the impression that UPS units for computeres were basically just meant to supply power long enough to save work in progress and shut down safely without data loss.
 

cobraboy

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I was always under the impression that UPS units for computeres were basically just meant to supply power long enough to save work in progress and shut down safely without data loss.
That's it. Nothing more.