Automatic Citizenship?

SantiagueroRD

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If a person is born in Haiti of foreign parents or one foreign parent are they automatically a citizen if Haiti?
 

Hillbilly

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Ironic, isn't it, that they insist on becoming Dominican citizens just because they enter the world here?

Which is why the DR Constitution makes it clear. Unless you are here legally, foreigners born here are not citizens.

HB
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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My daughter got a Haitian passport immediately she was born and registered - in that situation she needed to be able to travel and that was the quickest method to acquire a passport/travel document.
I was only ever there legally but was never a full blown resident with a Permis du Sojourn. The equivalent status in the D.R. would not have enabled her to get a Dominican passport without a Dominican parent.

You cannot hold dual nationality according to Haitian law - but my daughter holds both passports.
So I guess I should rip up her Haitian passport but it does not expire for a few years. If I do renew her Haitian passport I would have to make a declaration that she holds no other passport - the timing means that her British passport will expire leaving me 3 months to answer all questions truthfully on her application form and fetch up with 2 passports again.

One of the first tasks for Haiti's new administration should be to change the rules over dual nationality - that would be good for Haiti's future for a number of reasons.


Having said all that - If you know the right people you can get a genuine passport for anybody for 150US$ - right from the passport office. But that is illegal and anyway, you really do not want to be messing around with that stuff.

This drivel does not answer the question about anchor babies - strangely it rarely comes up in conversation ;)
 

mountainannie

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Sorry, I was not quite precise.. I am having a sloppy brain morning. Yes, you are automatically a Haitian citizen if ONE parent. No, you do get automatic Haitian citizenship if you are born on Haitian soil. Jus Solis. BUT yes, you can apply for naturalization after five years .. which few people do since, as Pedro pointed out, the present constitution of Haiti does not allow for dual citizenship and Haitians are admitted in even fewer countries than Dominicans.

As for the dual citizenship issue, that has now been passed by two consecutive legislatures and so when passed by this current one, can be placed in the Constitution as an amendment... I am pretty sure.. but news from Haiti is always a bit garbled.
 

mountainannie

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Ironic, isn't it, that they insist on becoming Dominican citizens just because they enter the world here?

Which is why the DR Constitution makes it clear. Unless you are here legally, foreigners born here are not citizens.

HB

http://www.entreculturas.org/files/...es/DOMINICANO_DOMINICANA_COMO_TU.pdf?download

The issue that some have been pressing is that the Junto Electoral appears to be denying Dominican citizenship to the children of ANY Haitian mother, even if the father is Dominican. And now there are reports that cedulas that have been held for years are not being renewed but confiscated as having been issued "illegally".
 

Ezequiel

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http://www.entreculturas.org/files/...es/DOMINICANO_DOMINICANA_COMO_TU.pdf?download

The issue that some have been pressing is that the Junto Electoral appears to be denying Dominican citizenship to the children of ANY Haitian mother, even if the father is Dominican. And now there are reports that cedulas that have been held for years are not being renewed but confiscated as having been issued "illegally".

The article that you posted doesn't say that the DR government is denying citizenship to children with a Haitian mother and a Dominican father!

D?borah tiene 13 a?os, naci? en Santo Domingo y es hija de un dominicano y una haitiana.
Su padre muri? 9 meses despu?s de su nacimiento.

In this case Deborah's father died 9 months after her birth, I guess he was lazy and didn't bother to declare her as his daughter immediately after her birth! And when the mother, a Haitian citizen, went to declare her it was denied.

Deborah was registered as a Dominican citizen as per the article that you posted, because her mother got her "Cedula" and Resident Card, documents that she didn't bother to get, even though she entered the DR with a visa.

She didn't need her Dominican husband to get DR citizenship to her kids IF she would it had gotten her immigration papers in order from the beginning, as she entered the DR legally with a Visa.

Not even Dominican citizens can declare their children without a Cedula! Why we have to break the laws for Haitians? Especially Haitians that are already legal and don't bother to get their Cedula!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

mountainannie

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sorry.. perhaps the article did not say that. I only know that from interviewing hospital personel in Dajabon. They simply give the Libra Rosada paper to ANY Haitian mother, whether she has a cedula or not, whether the father is Dominican or not.. does not matter.

And what is clear is that the rules are uneven. being applied unevenly.

Stats were that even 15% of the Dominicans do not have papers. Do you have to come here to the Junta Electoral to get them or can the local Ayuntemto issue you everything you need?

The problem is that Haiti has been practically without a functioning state for the better part of thirty years.. And even what little it had was corrupt and operating only in Port Au Prince. You have to travel to Port Au Prince to get any sort of official papers.

So a very small portion of the Haitians have the needed papers to even begin the process to get legal here in the DR.
 

PICHARDO

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40-44% of births are of Haitians

In an interview with Diario Libre, the president of the Central Electoral Board (JCE), the government body in charge of civil registry in the Dominican Republic, Roberto Rosario said that 42-44% of births in hospitals along the border with Haiti involve Haitian mothers who cross the border to give birth in Dominican public hospitals. The hospitals provide the service for free. He said that in metropolitan areas the percentage is more than 30%.

According to Rosario, these births are registered in the Libro de Extranjeria and they are given a document confirming that the birth was registered under the name of the mother. For the child to be issued a Dominican birth certificate, either the mother or the father would need to be a legal resident or national of the Dominican Republic.

Dominican Republic News & Travel Information Service
 

Ezequiel

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sorry.. perhaps the article did not say that. I only know that from interviewing hospital personel in Dajabon. They simply give the Libra Rosada paper to ANY Haitian mother, whether she has a cedula or not, whether the father is Dominican or not.. does not matter.

Where is the article that says that? If the Dominican father goes to declare his children with his cedula, his children will be registered as Dominican citizen.

And what is clear is that the rules are uneven. being applied unevenly.

They are not uneven and they are very clear! The Dominican parent needs to registered the child NOT the illegal parent without proper documentation.

Stats were that even 15% of the Dominicans do not have papers. Do you have to come here to the Junta Electoral to get them or can the local Ayuntemto issue you everything you need?

Last time I checked every town have a place to register the birth of children, and registration of birth is something that is handled by the central government not the Ayuntamientos!

I know a couple Dominicans without birth certificates, not because they have to go to "La Capital" to be resgistered, but because their parents are lazy and irresponsible. Birth registration is pretty easy.

The problem is that Haiti has been practically without a functioning state for the better part of thirty years.. And even what little it had was corrupt and operating only in Port Au Prince. You have to travel to Port Au Prince to get any sort of official papers.

That's not the DR problem! Thank god that the DR gained its independence from Haiti NOT the other way around, because I know everything that have befell Haiti was going to be blamed to the DR.

So a very small portion of the Haitians have the needed papers to even begin the process to get legal here in the DR.

They seem not to have problem going to Port Au Prince to get their birth certificates and passports when they want to go Canada, France and U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Ezequiel

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After a landmark international court decision in 2005 calling on the Dominican government to end its discrimination against this population, the government did the opposite: it hardened its policies and began retroactively withdrawing citizenship from Dominicans of Haitian descent who were previously recognized as citizens.

It seems to me that the International Court made things even worst!!!!! Those who had already had citizenship lost it due to the international court's ruling sticking its nose where it doesn't belong!
 

mountainannie

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Chill, Ezekiel.

You did not see the article, because I did not write it.

Because this is a very touchy subject and one that inflames antihaitianismo which is the opposite of what I try to do in my work.

If you go to pages 19 , 20 of the report that I posted, you will see

Esta investigaci?n sobre la base de casos concretos, nos muestra que la pr?ctica en el
Distrito Nacional es diferente seg?n las oficial?as, antes y despu?s de la nueva Ley de Migraci?n.
En realidad el proceso de obtenci?n del acta de nacimiento en la Republica Dominicana es muy
difuso y complicado y se empeora cuando es enfrentado por los dominicanos, hijos de padres
haitianos.
Para la declaraci?n de ni?os de ascendencia haitiana o hijos de familias haitianas
inmigrantes, habr?a que enfrentan los siguientes cambios y exigencias; (especialmente en cuanto
a la identificaci?n de los padres) a partir de la nueva Ley de Migraci?n 285-04:

and then there is a complicated tables which I do not completely understand.

There are lots of folks working on this issue at much higher pay grades than I am. And they are NOT all trying to get all the Haitians born here to have DR citizenship but to simply eliminate the problem WHICH ALREADY EXISTS that there are STATELESS people here.

That means people who cannot vote or drive or legally work or travel.. nada.. cannot even legally return to Haiti. Since most of them cannot even speak Kreyole. Since they were raised here. It is a permanent underclass. And it simply is not going to help.


Perhaps those figures that you posted are accurate, Picardo. I would actually have to see the papers and the registry with my own eyes to actually believe them. And even then.. as I said, when I went to hospital in Dajabon, they said it did not matter to them if the Haitian mother had a cedula, they still put the baby in the Libra Rosada.

It is a moot point, really, since only a very small percentage of the Haitians here have cedulas and I would be shocked to find any of them in Dajabon. Could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Weren't you the one who was telling us how the government was making up the figures on the economy over there on the middle class thread?

What I have ALWAYS wondered is WHY the DR simply keeps doing this and then WAILING about it?

WHY don't they actually call in some really BIG NGOs like OIM and SHOW them all the copies of the LIBRA ROSADA papers and then ASK for the money from the international support money that is given to the government of HAITI?

Now one of the mothers interviewed in the Open Society was clear, that they told her that she would have to register the children in her name alone, and she did not want to do this, to register them without a father. That, imho, is just silly. .. so now they have a father and no papers?

Anyway, it does not seem that there are any firm facts and figures.

I know that this is a problem that comes from Haiti. And I certainly understand that the DR is an independent nation. But it does no good for you to simply talk as if you won the war and that is that and like you never have to actually deal with them any more (like the US really actually does not have to deal with the UK)..

You are more like a divorced couple who is condemned to live in the same house until you die.

So the problems of one.. ARE the problems of another,

And, the DR, being the more advanced of the two countries does have the responsibility, I think, to take the lead in this one and see to it that there is not a CONTINUING STREAM of STATELESS children.

So I think that an annual publication of the Libra Rosada.. the delivery of all the names to the local Haitian Consul (the one in Dajabon had NEVER seen a copy of one) ,,, and PRESSURE from the DR government on the GOVERNMENT of HAITI to register these children as HAITIAN... to give them birth certificates. SO that at LEAST they can go to school as foreigners and later get passports.

Then at the end of the year, the DR can ASK for the cost to be repaid or at least officially take credit for it

instead of what is now happening which is just a waste .. a waste of people's lives

of the lives of children who had nothing whatsoever to do with the geopolitical situation.

that is my 5 cents for the afternoon
 

Ezequiel

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So the problems of one.. ARE the problems of another,

And, the DR, being the more advanced of the two countries does have the responsibility, I think, to take the lead in this one and see to it that there is not a CONTINUING STREAM of STATELESS children.

Wrong again! Haiti needs to amend its constitution to provide those Haitians born abroad with Haitian citizenship. The DR provide citizenship to very children that have a least a Dominican parent, no matter where they were born.

So I think that an annual publication of the Libra Rosada.. the delivery of all the names to the local Haitian Consul (the one in Dajabon had NEVER seen a copy of one) ,,, and PRESSURE from the DR government on the GOVERNMENT of HAITI to register these children as HAITIAN... to give them birth certificates. SO that at LEAST they can go to school as foreigners and later get passports.

No country on earth does that as far as I'm concerned! When a child of a foreign national is born in the DR they received the Pink Birth Certificate, and is up to the child parent or parents to registered that child with their countries embassy.

Then at the end of the year, the DR can ASK for the cost to be repaid or at least officially take credit for it

Who is going to pay the DR? Santa Claus! The DR doesn't have to take credit for anything, the big rich governments know what's going on, and they are looking the other way.

instead of what is now happening which is just a waste .. a waste of people's lives

The DR is already providing Pink Birth Certificate, if Haitians are throwing it to the trash can that's not the DR problem.

of the lives of children who had nothing whatsoever to do with the geopolitical situation.

That's what people of rich countries always like to say because is not their countries footing the burden!
 

mountainannie

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Haiti[s cpnstitution provides for citizenship of all children of parents who were born in Haiti. Just as the DR's does

Most countries in the world are not facing the very peculiar problem that your country is facing.

If I were Dominican, I would be looking for ways to get out of the problem instead of simply repeating that it is Haiti's problem,

And yes, the bill for the births could be submitted to the Haitian government's ministry of health for inclusion in their budget Or it could start a campaign to build birthing centers on the HAITIAN side of the border.

But I have not seen ONE single proposal in six years.

Just complaints.

At the very least the DR could indeed do something positive rather than simply stirring the pot....
 

Ezequiel

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Haiti[s cpnstitution provides for citizenship of all children of parents who were born in Haiti. Just as the DR's does

Thank you for clarification! That means that there is not stateless Haitians in the DR they just need to go to the Haitians embassy to be registered

Most countries in the world are not facing the very peculiar problem that your country is facing.

Due to the fact that the DR is in a particular situation, the DR is doing everything it can with limited resources!

If I were Dominican, I would be looking for ways to get out of the problem instead of simply repeating that it is Haiti's problem,

The DR is doing enough and had don't enough already without any help!

And yes, the bill for the births could be submitted to the Haitian government's ministry of health for inclusion in their budget Or it could start a campaign to build birthing centers on the HAITIAN side of the border.

And from where the Haitian government is going to find the money to pay the bill?

But I have not seen ONE single proposal in six years.

Just complaints.

You are the one complaining! The DR solved its problem by not giving them citizenship. Your country, Canada and France can whine all they want, the DR is going to do what is best for Dominicans NOT Haitians.

At the very least the DR could indeed do something positive rather than simply stirring the pot....

So in your view the DR is not doing nothing positive!!!!!!!!!!

Haitians cross the border to give birth in DR hospital and we take care them, because they have no hospital in Haiti! That's not positive?

The DR provide them with Birth Certificate so they can be registered with their government! Not even the Haitian government provide them with instant birth certificate! That's not positive?

The DR has allowed millions of Haitians to cross the border and work in the DR! That's not positive?

Now what your country is doing? Your country is deporting them, instead of giving them amnesty.
 

bienamor

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Just as an aside zeke, are you not writing this from the USA? Your just one on the I'm so Dominican, but hum I like it up here in the USA so I can complain about the problem, but when push comes to shove, I will do so from where I am comfortable. I would also guess your do so as a resident, not a citizen of the US. Which would mean if you ever step out of line, you will be back down here, then you can complain about how the USA treats the poor misunderstood resident that they deported.
 
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Per Pick and Nails, most Dominicans are middle and upper class, so why all the fuss about giving these millions of crumpled up broke and impoverished Haitians papers. Heck, if Pick and Nails are accurate, then just give these 2 million or so Haitians full citizenship. They can then also enjoy the benefits of the only nation on PLANET EARTH where the majority are well to do.

Now, if the opposite is true, then they've got to send them home packing. Because if the majority of Dominicans are in fact crumpled up and broke, then the competition for scarce resources threatens the natives over the foreigners. Lastly, if the crumpled up Haitians and Dominicans were to unite, the very existence of the middle and upper classes would be in check. Of course, this is all crazy talk of a VEGGIE MAN. It will all be fine per Pick and Nails. More pretty pictures from Pick please. That'll make it all fine.

P.S. If they do decide to give Haitians papers, then they should also give full citizenship papers to the rest of the foreign community, all the ex-pats, everyone YIPPEEE
 

mountainannie

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Yes, If your parents were Haitian, you can claim citizenship. But only if your parents are Haitian. Do the hundreds of thousands of Domincan Haitians born here before the Libra Rosada in 2007, cannot.

Nor can the grandchildren.

Haiti's economy is projected to grow by 7% this year.