Health reform is needed

sdnylz

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Aug 16, 2009
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This is a sad story and I feel I need to vent to people that might understand me. You know how the health systems is in DR. My dad just passed away, because he got sick went to a public hospital (you know how that is, he realized he wasn't going to get help there) then he went to a clinic and they didn't want to admit him cuz he didnt have the amount of money they were asking for deposit. When I learned what was going on, I sent the money via western union. Meanwhile, I asked the clinic via telephone to charge my usa credit card, or to treat him that the money was on the way. They didn't cooperate and didn't admit him until 11pm.

So many hours had passed without medical intervention, next morning he went in intensive care, then passed around 11am that morning. I feel that would've never had happen in the USA. Here you get admitted money or not. I'm devastated don't want to know anything about DR. Money is what matters not people, in the USA at least they are afraid of lawsuits. Well, I guess that makes the difference between a developed and un-develop country.

I use to love DR and be so proud until I saw the ugly face of it.
 

SKing

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Nov 22, 2007
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So sorry to hear about your father. The situation of healthcare in the country is the giant elephant in the room that noone talks about. Money rules, sad to say, and my country United States, is at the total other end of the pole....don't get me started on that.

My deepest condolences

SHALENA
 

wuarhat

I am a out of touch hippie.
Nov 13, 2006
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This is a sad story and I feel I need to vent to people that might understand me. You know how the health systems is in DR. My dad just passed away, because he got sick went to a public hospital (you know how that is, he realized he wasn't going to get help there) then he went to a clinic and they didn't want to admit him cuz he didnt have the amount of money they were asking for deposit. When I learned what was going on, I sent the money via western union. Meanwhile, I asked the clinic via telephone to charge my usa credit card, or to treat him that the money was on the way. They didn't cooperate and didn't admit him until 11pm.

So many hours had passed without medical intervention, next morning he went in intensive care, then passed around 11am that morning. I feel that would've never had happen in the USA. Here you get admitted money or not. I'm devastated don't want to know anything about DR. Money is what matters not people, in the USA at least they are afraid of lawsuits. Well, I guess that makes the difference between a developed and un-develop country.

I use to love DR and be so proud until I saw the ugly face of it.

I'm very sorry for your loss. I concur with your assessment of the LRD medical delivery system. My wife had a seizure in Santo Domingo last November, fortunately, it was the first trip I had rented a car for in over a year, but still, lugging her into the car in the middle of the night, flagging people in the street down and asking directions to the hospital, and then when we got there depending on people in the waiting room to help carry her in, and in the ER fighting with the staff to even look at her. They had the attitude that they could care less about another OD'd junkie. When they finally decided to treat her, spending the night in a filthy 8' X 10' room with four other patients and their families was another eye opener. You have to come in your own ambulance and bring your own nurse. My brother in law who has no medical training accept for the possible exception of watching his own mother die of cancer, relatively untreated, ended up comforting two other seriously in pain patients whose children had taken a break. Cheez, I shudder every time I think about that night.
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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Santiago
To the OP, sorry for you loss.

The DR is a poor country it could be said mostly do to it's mismanaged resources and corruption. Nonetheless, the medical care I've seen is excellent for a majority of the treatment needed. As far as the public hospitals go is it quite possible to get good and professional treatment as long as they aren't overwhelmed. No the accommodations generally aren't pretty or comfortable.

Also, most of the doctors that work in the public hospitals also work in a private clinic or even have their own practice.

Finally, my father died of cancer in the US because of his doctor's indiscretion and we also lived a few years unable to get health insurance for me and my wife. Furthermore, while lawsuits may appear to help medical professionals act more responsible by all accounts it is a billion dollar industry in the US so that's not maybe as progressive as one might think.
 

zoomzx11

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Jan 21, 2006
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Sadly you are not alone. My wifes sister bled to death delivering twins in a public hospital. One baby died from lack of Oxygen and mom died because hospital had no blood. The other child we adopted turned out to be profundly retarded from her brain being starved of oxygen. She has never spoken or walked and does not know us. Being poor is a rocky road in the DR. The DR is full of similar horror stories. You see the results on the street. So many amputations. People who lost the use of arms because they were poorly set when broken. Human life has little value here. Sorry for your loss.
 

SKing

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Nov 22, 2007
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Chip has a family member who works in a public hospital so his narratives are somewhat scewed. There are some staff in public hospitals who give very good treatment this is true. They are severely understaffed and under equipped. Rarely do they have the supplies to do the task at hand and are sometimes not pais for a month or two.
All of this however is no excuse for the lack of human caring and abundance of ignorance even when presented with truth. I spent a week sleeping on the floor in Cabral y Baez with my son's 80 something year old great-grandmother when her husband was dying. The family wanted me there as I am a nurse in the US. The docs were super nice to me but other staff seemed angry and bitter. The resident doc came in to put a catheter in his penis for urine collection. We had bought the supplies. I had purchased sterilized gloves, yet this physician took a pair of gloves out of his pocket. I stopped him, telling him that I had sterilized gloves for him (in the US, placing a urinary catheter is a sterile procedure). He told me, "I have my own. No problem" and I had to put my hand on his and say "Yes, problem". I explained to him that the bladder is sterile and that that is where his catheter would end up, and placing a catheter without sterilized technique could cause a serious infection in this already immuno-suppressed 90 year old.
( I dis not use the words technique or suppressed because I don't know those words in Spanish but I explained it the best I could). He accepted this and was very nice and used the sterile gloves, I had to stop him again to clean the head of the penis before sticking the catheter in. This person is probably already a doc now on his own.
That is not the worse part. Not even 2 hours later he had to pit a catheter in another elderly patient in the room and did NOTHING that I had explained to him before. NOTHING
Not having supplies or being understaffed is no use for ignorance and bad treatment. Your father should've been treated immediately or at least with your promise of payment. The caring has gone. One of my midwife instructors spent 2 weeks in Santiago public hospital with a group of 7 Midwives and students. The docs lived them because they had an ease up on their workload but twice the group had to leave early due to done if the students not being able to handle the treatment of the women. Some were slapped when they were out of control with pain. They are on sheetless beds left alone except for every 2 hours a doc cones around with at least 5 others (residents and med students) and opens their legs forcefully, checking their cervixes in front of 8 other women and the 5 men standing there, talking about them like they aren't there, ignoring their cries for help, closing their legs and moving on to the next one not even washing their hands in between. They saw a Haitian deliver a stillbirth in a bathroom, the hospital staff took her baby away and left her on the floor in blood and feces. While the Midwives prayed over her, the staff then returned with a wheelchair and took her to a room with a metal table, had her climb up bleeding and in pain and proceeded to tug on her placenta, one of the midwife students said that not one staff person said a word to the patient and she looked like a deer in headlights.
Nothing
Nothing
Nothing is an excuse for this type of treatment.

We cannot say anything, we sign forms for our Midwife students that state that we understand that we are not there to judge the hospital staff and we are not there to change their ways of doing things, we are there to be a blessing to the patients. And we do not need to make enemies of these doctors.

But when will ONE doctor stand up and say that this is wrong. When will 1 treat a patient with compassion, as a human and not a disease. When will 1 doctor hold a scared woman's hand? I have had patients that I hope to never see again in my life! Patients that have left me seething with anger, yet they never knew.

Sad part is....that is the DR....until sine people in power change, nothing will. And I wouldn't hold my breath for it
 

sdnylz

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Aug 16, 2009
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Sking... growing up that's exactly how I remember the people talking about how women deliver their babies in DR, how they make fun of the women saying something like "shut up, you didn't complain when you made that baby". I know is sad, I don't know how anybody can see a human being suffering and be so cold. The culture is all mess up. I really appreciate what you are doing there. As I said, maybe when my mind is in a better place I'll be able to help.
 

Chip

Platinum
Jul 25, 2007
16,772
429
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Santiago
The culture is all mess up.

To just assume that all health care professionals here don't care is just as fair as saying they don't care about people in public hospitals or nursing homes in the States due to the number of scandals. Furthermore, if my sister in law who has worked in the urology clinic for more than 10 years could understand how you guys were claiming how all the measley paid, overworked not to mention lack of necessary equipment and poor working conditions medical professionals here in the public system could care less about people I'm sure you guys would learn the real meaning of a "boche".

Hey, what do I know, I've only been treated in the public hospitals here, had one of my daughters born there and had my wife's kidney surgery valued at US35k back in 2000 done for free.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
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Exactly how is "health reform" going to be paid for in a relatively poor country?
 

dv8

Gold
Sep 27, 2006
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well, call me a devil's advocate: if the OP had the monies to pay for the treatment he has the money to pay for health insurance. yes, granted, you cannot obtain one if older but i cannot stress how IMPORTANT it is to get one whenver one can. because sometimes it is just to late.

and yes, a public hospital in DR can provide a decent help, ocasionally. but i would not count on it. get the insurance, this is a number one advice to everyone who lives in DR.
 

Lolitula

New member
Mar 16, 2011
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Chip has a family member who works in a public hospital so his narratives are somewhat scewed. There are some staff in public hospitals who give very good treatment this is true. They are severely understaffed and under equipped. Rarely do they have the supplies to do the task at hand and are sometimes not pais for a month or two.
All of this however is no excuse for the lack of human caring and abundance of ignorance even when presented with truth. I spent a week sleeping on the floor in Cabral y Baez with my son's 80 something year old great-grandmother when her husband was dying. The family wanted me there as I am a nurse in the US. The docs were super nice to me but other staff seemed angry and bitter. The resident doc came in to put a catheter in his penis for urine collection. We had bought the supplies. I had purchased sterilized gloves, yet this physician took a pair of gloves out of his pocket. I stopped him, telling him that I had sterilized gloves for him (in the US, placing a urinary catheter is a sterile procedure). He told me, "I have my own. No problem" and I had to put my hand on his and say "Yes, problem". I explained to him that the bladder is sterile and that that is where his catheter would end up, and placing a catheter without sterilized technique could cause a serious infection in this already immuno-suppressed 90 year old.
( I dis not use the words technique or suppressed because I don't know those words in Spanish but I explained it the best I could). He accepted this and was very nice and used the sterile gloves, I had to stop him again to clean the head of the penis before sticking the catheter in. This person is probably already a doc now on his own.
That is not the worse part. Not even 2 hours later he had to pit a catheter in another elderly patient in the room and did NOTHING that I had explained to him before. NOTHING
Not having supplies or being understaffed is no use for ignorance and bad treatment. Your father should've been treated immediately or at least with your promise of payment. The caring has gone. One of my midwife instructors spent 2 weeks in Santiago public hospital with a group of 7 Midwives and students. The docs lived them because they had an ease up on their workload but twice the group had to leave early due to done if the students not being able to handle the treatment of the women. Some were slapped when they were out of control with pain. They are on sheetless beds left alone except for every 2 hours a doc cones around with at least 5 others (residents and med students) and opens their legs forcefully, checking their cervixes in front of 8 other women and the 5 men standing there, talking about them like they aren't there, ignoring their cries for help, closing their legs and moving on to the next one not even washing their hands in between. They saw a Haitian deliver a stillbirth in a bathroom, the hospital staff took her baby away and left her on the floor in blood and feces. While the Midwives prayed over her, the staff then returned with a wheelchair and took her to a room with a metal table, had her climb up bleeding and in pain and proceeded to tug on her placenta, one of the midwife students said that not one staff person said a word to the patient and she looked like a deer in headlights.
Nothing
Nothing
Nothing is an excuse for this type of treatment.

We cannot say anything, we sign forms for our Midwife students that state that we understand that we are not there to judge the hospital staff and we are not there to change their ways of doing things, we are there to be a blessing to the patients. And we do not need to make enemies of these doctors.

But when will ONE doctor stand up and say that this is wrong. When will 1 treat a patient with compassion, as a human and not a disease. When will 1 doctor hold a scared woman's hand? I have had patients that I hope to never see again in my life! Patients that have left me seething with anger, yet they never knew.

Sad part is....that is the DR....until sine people in power change, nothing will. And I wouldn't hold my breath for it

First and foremost, I am so so sorry for your loss...I, too, lost my dad this year to an incurable cancer and it was a terribly hard time. He was treated in Canada, land of the so-called 'free' healthcare, but no chemo or radiation or drugs could help him. The nurses were the saving grace, always by his side and making jokes and trying to keep his spirits up. It was - and still is - often times the nurses that make these experiences so much easier to deal with...I salute you, Shalena!

I went to a public health centre when I was pregnant here in the DR. When I got ameobas at 6 months into my pregnancy and was hospitalized for over a week (ah, the money they made!) I made the decision to return home to deliver my child...they even told me the RH test (I think that's what it's called? I'm O negative...) was to be done AFTER the birth. When I got home at 7.5 months pregnant, they told me I needed it immediately. I'm so happy I was home for that and avoided disaster.

All that being said, and I KNOW this may sound controversial...I think the DR system absolutely needs SO much better training, resources, help in general...BUT...I found the doctors (my OBGYN here and a Gastrointestinal Dr.) had a better bedside manner at least. In Canada they were too busy to ask how I was doing emotionally, whereas here they were always calling in and making sure I was feeling good, that I was loved and cared for. If nothing else, that's somewhere the DR went right with the medical help, although it's small time considering lives are at stake.

I'm so so so sorry. I feel every ounce of your pain, and I wish that you'll be surrounded by people that love you in this difficult time.
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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Sorry Chip!

You are starting to sound like "Nals",and "Pichardo"!
Your DR "Agenda" always seems to clash with what the rest of us know is the DR REALITY!
It is not necessary for you to "Chime In" to every post that says something you concieve as criticizing the DR,we KNOW what you think!
I have had three children born here,they have all been hospitalized several times each,"Hemmoraegic Dengue","GI" infections,concussion,etc. I have been hospitalized 5 or 6 times myself.I have worked in "Healthcare" for over 40 years,including 10 years here!
"Healthcare",(OXYMORON"????) in the DR is worse than poor!
There are a few doctors who have trained abroad that are very good.Most are ignorant of the "basics",including sterile technique!
The biggest problem starts with nursing care,and technical support. It doesn't exist here!
They have nowhere to train.
I could spend the next week listing "Horror Stories" about healthcare in the DR!
Your "Positive Spin" about every facet of life in the DR will NOT change the reality!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

Chip

Platinum
Jul 25, 2007
16,772
429
0
Santiago
You are starting to sound like "Nals",and "Pichardo"!
Your DR "Agenda" always seems to clash with what the rest of us know is the DR REALITY!
It is not necessary for you to "Chime In" to every post that says something you concieve as criticizing the DR,we KNOW what you think!
I have had three children born here,they have all been hospitalized several times each,"Hemmoraegic Dengue","GI" infections,concussion,etc. I have been hospitalized 5 or 6 times myself.I have worked in "Healthcare" for over 40 years,including 10 years here!
"Healthcare",(OXYMORON"????) in the DR is worse than poor!
There are a few doctors who have trained abroad that are very good.Most are ignorant of the "basics",including sterile technique!
The biggest problem starts with nursing care,and technical support. It doesn't exist here!
They have nowhere to train.
I could spend the next week listing "Horror Stories" about healthcare in the DR!
Your "Positive Spin" about every facet of life in the DR will NOT change the reality!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

The point I want to make is that is that it is possible to get good medical care here and obviously that would be mostly in the public clinics and that one shouldn't assume all the public health workers could care less about the patients. What is lacking is adequate funding and wages by the government and no doubt better education as well.

As far as me painting the DR as without warts all I have to say is Pichardo and Nals do not consider me a friend of "the cause" that's for sure.
 

SKing

Silver
Nov 22, 2007
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Do you guys think that Chip, his wife, and his lovely children would have gotten such "great care" in the public hospital if we weren't whiter than a sheet of paper and his wife weren't sisters with a nurse there??

I did say that the docs were nice at most times, I never said they hated the patients. They treat the patients how they were taught to treat them, like inanimate objects. These women are treated inhumanely more often than not. I also have a friend who went and volunteered in their AIDS clinic, and I won't even begin to tell you his stories. If they can just stop and listen, there is more than one way to skin a cat. But like Criss stated, there are some here just in order to paint everything the color of roses, likes to negate every point made.

I will be speaking soon to the OB docs when I go in November...maybe I'll stop by the Urology area and see just how wonderful it is.....

SHALENA
 
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SKing

Silver
Nov 22, 2007
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What is lacking is adequate funding and wages by the government and no doubt better education as well.

Ummmm, isn't this basically what I said?

English Comprehension.....they have an app for that.

SHALENA