about haitians in the dr

The excuse of "Domnicans" won't do this type of work is bogus just like the claims in the US. The facts are that citizens want to be paid a fair wage and be treated fairly. The rich people of every country want illegal immigration for cheap labor with limited rights and they hide behind altruism. I think that if they paid $600 pesos a day with proper equipment they would get Dominican workers but that would cut into their profits. Those big government projects are contracted out.

Santiaguero; dang!!! Hiding behind altruism, for their cheap labor...I could not have said it better.
@ Annie, you can put "that" shirt away. He just murdered people.

I don't have a problem with illegals whether here or in the States to a point. The point being where their numbers have adverse effects. That is subjective for sure.

aranoid:Wow, two threads in "Let's blame Haitians for all our woes" mode.

As was said in earlier threads, you really can substitute "Haitian" for "Mexican" and "DR" for "American," and these threads sound like a typical night on Fox News.

So far, my favorite comments have been of the "I'm not racist because I married/have a relationship with/randomly screw a Dominican, but I really hate Haitians, especially the ones who are as black as the blacks I hated back home. But I'm not a racist." lol.

That said, I'm African-American, and hate Haitians as well. That dark skin is just so...ooky.aranoid:aranoid:aranoid:

Anyway, I'd happily challenge any person on this blog to find a Dominican (or even better, a know-it-all expat) to work 12+ hours a day, 6+ days a week on a years-long construction project for 300 pesos (about 8 bux) a day.

It's like finding white folks who complain that immigrants take all the jobs, despite the fact they have no interest whatsoever in picking grapes or melons from sun up to sundown. It's all about the principal, right.

Here comes the part where some expat talks about how hard he worked in his first world country and how he used his brain instead of his head, and now can sit and complain about other people willing to do hard work.

The simple fact is most countries - including the DR - are utterly reliant on cheap labor to operate. Yes, being illegal is less preferable to legal, and yes, the rule of law should be obeyed. But let's not act like the vast majority of illegals work jobs no one wants to work and spend money in our struggling economies to a greater extent than they extract services. After all, lest we forget, most came to work.

I mean, If I were seeking better benefits and more respect, I'd keep on walking to Canada if I were an illegal. But that's me. :glasses::glasses:

At least until your meal goes up dramatically, or the costs of buying/managing your hours increases, or a million other things that you come to rely on suddenly jumps in price because you're so durned principled.

Then, I imagine we'll start to complain over corporate greed, or taxes, or whatever.

I think DRob has a valid point. It is once again the same in every country.

A lot of my uncles are fruit- and vegetable farmers in Belgium. Every crop they have to depend on a lot of seasonal workers. For years they used hindu and pakistani "illegals" who used to show up when crops were ready to be picked. They paid them the official minimum wage in Belgium, and on top of this they got 3 free, good meals a day, as well as a bed, and all other facilities. As soon as the crop was finished, they would move on to France, Spain, or whereever. They never had any complaints of those workers. They were honest, were willing to work long hours if the crop needed picking (they were paid by the hour), and were always happy and content. It were always the same ones who showed up when necessary, so they were even included in family festivities, etc...

The government did not like this, held raids, and most of my uncles got big fines. So far, so good. One uncle decided to give it a test. He went to the unemployment office and told them he needed 30 workers for a 6 week period. He paid quite a bit more over the minimum wage, as now he could bring it into his expenses. He promised them a bonus if they got the crop picked in time. He offered them the same lodgings, and meals, or offered to pay more if they only came to work and had lunch.

It was a disaster. He started with 30, ended up with 10 after the first day. Got 20 new ones the next day, and still ended up with 10 at the end of the day. They found the work too hard, too boring, too many hours, etc...

It is exactly the same here. Now they bitch because the haitians are here, but they forget the fact that they were more than happy that those haitians were here to cut down the sugar cane.

Stop judging someone by his origin, or color, and judge someone by his diligence, honesty, etc...

Do the German system... you can be legal for a year, providing you have work, learn the lingo, and adapt yourself. After a year you are evaluated.

I wonder why so many have to go to an extreme on this board to make and example?

For example, like in this thread someone can be for Haitian illegal immigration up to a certain point, yet someone will come along and states they are a racist for not allowing all the Haitians who want to to come to the DR?

This is a common theme throughout this board and it assumes there is no such thing apparently as a "middle ground".

SantiagueroRD said:

The excuse of "Domnicans" won't do this type of work is bogus just like the claims in the US. The facts are that citizens want to be paid a fair wage and be treated fairly. The rich people of every country want illegal immigration for cheap labor with limited rights and they hide behind altruism. I think that if they paid $600 pesos a day with proper equipment they would get Dominican workers but that would cut into their profits. Those big government projects are contracted out.

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Everything minus the bolded part I completely agree and have been saying this for years now.

Now, about the resentment towards "the rich," it would actually make sense -at least in the Dominican case- if most employees worked for large Dominican companies.

But I'll let you do your own research and then I hope you come here and share your findings with everyone. When you do your research, make sure you identify not just the type of companies that employ most of the workforce, but also their capitalization and productivity levels.

My guess is that you will be very surprised to find out that the companies owned by "the rich" have very little impact on the prevailing wage levels. If anything, those are the companies that most often pay above average wages and, as a group, employ the least amount of Haitian workers.

NALs said:

Everything minus the bolded part I completely agree and have been saying this for years now.

Now, about the resentment towards "the rich," it would actually make sense -at least in the Dominican case- if most employees worked for large Dominican companies.

But I'll let you do your own research and then I hope you come here and share your findings with everyone. When you do your research, make sure you identify not just the type of companies that employ most of the workforce, but also their capitalization and productivity levels.

My guess is that you will be very surprised to find out that the companies owned by "the rich" have very little impact on the prevailing wage levels. If anything, those are the companies that most often pay above average wages and, as a group, employ the least amount of Haitian workers.

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You have a good point and most illegals are employed informally and not by big business...but there is also a history of large scale organized use...obviously in the DR with bateys and cane production and some of the richest families in the country...or in the US with large scale agribusiness. The present circumstances in the DR with a flood of Haitian illegals and a shrunken sugar industry is obviously not the historical norm.

I wish all you ultra-leftists, civil rights wannabe's who wished they marched with Dr. King and fought with and died romantically in Bolivia with Che Guevara would uproot yourselfs again and move some 400 miles west with the mega-cheap imported labor. The Dominican government hires these people and I'm sure you have a big cool aid smile. Awwww poor Dominicans are getting screwed but it's ok, because a poor imigrant is taking his job" Go back to your commie Europe and eat some crepes.

Lando, the thread is about Haitians in the DR, some legal, others not.

King and Guevara were about equal rights for citizens. You're comparing apples to...well, rebar.

BUT, it did give us a pretty good idea that your version of happiness probably involves complaining about how lazy your, ahem, "staff" is, while sipping a mint julep in a seersucker suit as some pretty mulatta calls you "Colonel."

Hey, substitute the suit for shorts, the julep for a Grande, and add a few more honey-skinned cuties, and you've got the DR. Muy interesante.....

Our contractor has 3 Haitians working on the house we are having built and anywhere from 3 to 6 Dominicans, depending on what is being done. In the time that I have spent watching them, the Dominicans work as hard as the Haitians. I would prefer to hire Dominicans myself, or Haitians that are legal than Haitians that are illegal. This has nothing to do with colour, race...etc and everything to do with legality and my own sense of right and wrong. My wife has enough under-employed relatives that need work.
DRob, ML King was an honourable man with honourable intentions. If you believe Guevara was of the same caliber of human being I feel sorry for you because your judgement is flawed. He was a sadist.

Bob Saunders is Old School wise. A most excellent philosophy in the manner a man should conduct them self. You so good things and good things happen. Merry Christmas to some of you!

bob saunders said:

DRob, ML King was an honourable man with honourable intentions. If you believe Guevara was of the same caliber of human being I feel sorry for you because your judgement is flawed. He was a sadist.

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Bob, some would say Che was a paragon, others a pariah. It depends on your perspective. After all, Arabs and Brits love Lawrence of Arabia, but he's not so popular with the Turkish, right? I do know that he's all but a saint in significant populations of numerous latin american and african countries (including DR).

Back on topic. I'd like to hire Americans to do the work around my house, but the simple fact is immigrants (specifically latinos) do it as well for a fraction of the cost. My only rule is they be legal in the U.S.

And your maestro knows the deal. The typical client is looking to get the best work possible for the lowest cost possible. If he pays Dominicans a fair wage, he'll likely price himself out of the bid, or whittle away on his own profits. And nobody is passing on work in the name of principle in this economy.

Lando calrisian said:

I wish all you ultra-leftists, civil rights wannabe's who wished they marched with Dr. King and ... .

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As someone who met and ACTUALLY marched with Dr. King (including 1963 March on Washington) I am so glad that the focus of this thread is "about Haitians in the DR" ... and not about what someone thought they learned in some US history class.