Sugar Cane biofuel?

M

Makedocreative

New member
Dec 4, 2011
18
0
0
This is a bit far-fetched, but wondering about the realities of converting a large, unused sugar cane field into a biofuel production space? Brazil has been successfully doing this for a bit of time now.

Any ideas, comments appreciated!
 
P

PeterInBrat

Gold
May 29, 2006
10,265
200
0
While sugar is still one of the DR's biggest industries, I don't think the country is ready yet to convert to biofuels. There is probably some future for using bagasse as a fuel for small power production, but I think most of it now is being used to make the sugar mills self-powered.

I'd prefer the country move away from sugar production and into higher value crops like citrus, mangoes, avocados, corn, organic nuts, coffee and cacao. The last two crops are especially important because the crops require shade from the forest canopy and can sustain about 80% of the species of uncultivated land. This is unlikely to happen though while the US continues to subsidize the country's sugar industry and the sugar barons have influence on the government.

At least one member here grows traditional Indian crops for export to the American and European markets.
 
AlterEgo

AlterEgo

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 9, 2009
23,142
6,308
113
South Coast
This thread reminds me of the short-lived TV series called "CANE" with Jimmy Smits. It was the premise behind the series, which wasn't bad. Guess America wasn't ready for a Cuban drama.
 
E

edithdickie

New member
Apr 18, 2010
2
0
0
Biofuels are not a option in the DR at the present moment.

AlterEgo said:
This thread reminds me of the short-lived TV series called "CANE" with Jimmy Smits. It was the premise behind the series, which wasn't bad. Guess America wasn't ready for a Cuban drama.
Click to expand...

Sugar and associated products earns the DR a considerable amount of income, thus it is unlikely for the near future that converting sugar into alcohol is a big earner. There are other problems converting sugar into alcohol and these include food price rises because there will be a shortage of sugar to make food products. Furthermore, if the alcohol is going to be used as a fuel additive, then cars in the DR will need adapting which will increase the price of transport in the short term future. The flip side of the above points are related to environmental matters that does need to be addressed.
 
T

the gorgon

Platinum
Sep 16, 2010
33,997
83
0
any economic venture such as this requires a holistic analysis, not just strict financial projections. firstly, the sugar cane useage yields very little in the area of job creation, since 100 hectares provides for only 10 jobs. secondly, there is just not enough land to take advantages of economies of scale. i will not get into the myriad of other considerations involved in such a venture, such as energy input versus output, management structures, cane type, monoculture degradation of the soil, etc. sounds nice as a barstool point of conversation. a waste of precious time, otherwise. for the USA to be self sufficient in ethanol, you would need to plant every available acre of arable land in the USA, and Mexico. dump the idea.
 
J

Jared Wilson

New member
Apr 12, 2011
36
0
0
the gorgon said:
any economic venture such as this requires a holistic analysis, not just strict financial projections. firstly, the sugar cane useage yields very little in the area of job creation, since 100 hectares provides for only 10 jobs. secondly, there is just not enough land to take advantages of economies of scale. i will not get into the myriad of other considerations involved in such a venture, such as energy input versus output, management structures, cane type, monoculture degradation of the soil, etc. sounds nice as a barstool point of conversation. a waste of precious time, otherwise. for the USA to be self sufficient in ethanol, you would need to plant every available acre of arable land in the USA, and Mexico. dump the idea.
Click to expand...

The ethanol experiment is a terrible mistake they won't admit.
 
P

PeterInBrat

Gold
May 29, 2006
10,265
200
0
It's not like the almost entirely Haitian cane cutters are making 100 pesos an hour either...

Sugar ethanol does work in Brazil, but they also have a much larger population and sugar industry, which gives the processing a better economy of scale. They also rely heavily on charcoal derived from the rain forests(to process steel for US cars), so it's not like they are the world model for green technologies.

I don't see any one solution fixing the DR's energy needs. As the population grows and the wealth increases, the demand for gas is growing at a much faster rate.
 
T

the gorgon

Platinum
Sep 16, 2010
33,997
83
0
PeterInBrat said:
It's not like the almost entirely Haitian cane cutters are making 100 pesos an hour either...

Sugar ethanol does work in Brazil, but they also have a much larger population and sugar industry, which gives the processing a better economy of scale. They also rely heavily on charcoal derived from the rain forests(to process steel for US cars), so it's not like they are the world model for green technologie
I don't see any one solution fixing the DR's energy needs. As the population grows and the wealth increases, the demand for gas is growing at a much faster rate.
Click to expand...

they also have a far bigger land mass. small acreages cannot reach advantageous economis of scale
 
P

PeterInBrat

Gold
May 29, 2006
10,265
200
0
I doubt the DR sugar industry could compete with other countries if it wasn't subsidized by the US government. The world-wide collapse of the sugar market was one(among many) reasons why the Duvalier regime collapsed in Haiti. A field worker can hand cut sugar at what, maybe 2 or 3 tons a day? How many other countries out there still cut cane by hand?
 
M

Makedocreative

New member
Dec 4, 2011
18
0
0
Thanks for the ideas. It seems most of you are saying that this won't work, for a variety of reasons. Here are some things that may have gotten lost in the mix:
The cane fields, though not massive, are currently unused. So there no jobs and no sugar industry for the people living near the fields.

Most cars here have a propane conversion system, and I've been told that it's cheap to create one for another type of fuel. Whether this is true or not, I don't know.

What if the ethanol were not for mass production but just for the DR? It seems most comments were concerned with it going large scale, but what if it were just kept to a local population?

I like the idea of agro-industry, mangoes and such too.
 
D

dmlawyers1

New member
Sep 6, 2011
2
0
0
dmlawyer.com
This location informs me of the short-lived TV series known as "CANE" with Jimmy Smits. It was the key behind the series, which wasn't bad. Think The u. s. wasn't ready for a Cuban pleasure.
 
R

Rep Dom

Bronze
Dec 27, 2011
1,237
0
0
this subject makes me think about using old oil (the one restaurants use for cooking) instead of diesel. It works fine after a few tricks. And it is quite ecological. It pollutes less than diesel and it's fine to recycle... Anyone has experimented in RD?
 
F

Frank the Tank

Gold
May 12, 2005
8,564
271
83
I think it might work on a small scale but there is not enough land and sugar fields available for nation wide consumption.
 
S

stelen123

Member
Jan 13, 2006
63
0
6
Methanol Synthesis from Communal Waste

Hello all,

I was reading your postings regarding renewable energy use.
I'm getting involved with a company in Europe, founders of this group I know personally, this group won last year the innovation of the year gold award called '' Green Oscar'' awarded by IFIA organization.

The company located in central Europe, and already finishing the 1st pilot plant (finished by March-April 2012). Unique designed technology plant is a enclosed circuit (smokeless factory), 100% environmentally clean and can produce Bio-Methanol from waste. The plant can process approx. 2000 Mt/year waste, from that 700 Mt of Bio-methanol and 1000Mt of liquid carbon dioxide.

This breakthrough new technology could solve few problems at once.


For more information please message me..

Thank you

Stefan
 
P

PeterInBrat

Gold
May 29, 2006
10,265
200
0
I don't know if the OP is correct about cane fields being unused. There are seasonal down times for the fields or they may be letting them sit fallow for a year or two.

DR sugar is subsidized by the US. Without the subsidy, the industry would collapse and the country would go back to importing Chinese sugar, as it did the last time it collapsed. Cuba lost its Soviet sugar subsidy and now it's a ghost industry.

There are numerous other crops the DR grows for export or for domestic use that could be using existing sugar fields. But the sugar barons have a lot of pull both in the DR and the US, and developing fields for other crops takes time. You can't grow an avocado or mango tree in six months.
 
T

the gorgon

Platinum
Sep 16, 2010
33,997
83
0
someone mentioned switching to higher value crops, rather than the traditional primary agricultural exports. well, value aded products would also be a great idea. anyone ever stop to think about how many tons of hot wings are eaten, every day, in restaurants in the USA, alone? hot wings means hot sauce. the DR does not produce ONE decent hot pepper sauce, despite the fact that it has the capability to produce spectacular hot peppers. this is not rocket science. a good recipe is a start. i know that the marketing, and market introductions, will be problematic at the outset, but that is true of all startup projects. look at Pickapeppa , from Jamaica..world renown, for over 50 years.
 
P

PeterInBrat

Gold
May 29, 2006
10,265
200
0
the gorgon said:
someone mentioned switching to higher value crops, rather than the traditional primary agricultural exports. well, value aded products would also be a great idea. anyone ever stop to think about how many tons of hot wings are eaten, every day, in restaurants in the USA, alone? hot wings means hot sauce. the DR does not produce ONE decent hot pepper sauce, despite the fact that it has the capability to produce spectacular hot peppers. this is not rocket science. a good recipe is a start. i know that the marketing, and market introductions, will be problematic at the outset, but that is true of all startup projects. look at Pickapeppa , from Jamaica..world renown, for over 50 years.
Click to expand...

Yep that Pickapeppa is good stuff. I use it in some Asian cooking.

Even regular bell peppers would be a good export. Somehow Holland has got a lock on red and colored bell peppers. I also hear that Puerto Rico imports its tomatoes from the US mainland because the sugar industry has a lock on most of the agricultural land. The DR is a lot closer to PR and the tomatoes in the DR are far better than anything in the US.

At one place I worked, we were getting fresh basil imported from Israel for US$16 pound, which is still about the going price in the US even for wholesale. Maybe a Basil/tilapia hydroponic farm would work. What does basil cost in the DR? I remember making a lot of pesto there..

Avocados are another export, but the DR doesn't grow much of the Haas variety, which is what sells in US supermarkets.

There are many crops being exported from the DR, but they are very small scale compared to the sugar industry. I hear cut flowers are another industry that is doing well in the DR. Those roadside cannas that grow like weeds sell for $1-$2 a stem in the US. What about Orchids native to the DR?
 
M

Mr_DR

Silver
May 12, 2002
2,506
60
0
I think that for fuel purpose Hemp would probably be the best candidate if they would make it legal.
Hemp provides canopy for other crops, has more use since its oil can be used for fuel and the
byproduct you can feed livestock, make nutrition bars, snacks, clothes, ropes, you name it.
 
T

the gorgon

Platinum
Sep 16, 2010
33,997
83
0
PeterinBrat, try mixing the Pickapeppa with some cream cheese, and a sprinkle of parmesan, and you have just made a tasty dip for your nacho chips. yes, the DR has so many opportunities to export agricultural products, but is stuck in 19th century thinking. same old 10 families doing everything. how could Holland have a lock on the US bell pepper market, when the DR produces spectacular exemplars, and is a member of DRCAFTA, besides being a stone's throw away, geographicaly?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom