Politur = Taliban?

drstock

drstock

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Oct 29, 2010
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When I came to live in the Dominican Republic, I thought I was coming to a free, open country, liberated to modern western standards. However, recent actions by the Politur in Cabarete, where I live, make me think it is more like a repressive police state with little personal freedom for the citizens.

The young woman who cleans at my place, a good, clean-living church-goer, will not go out after dark by herself, not for fear of crime but because she fears being arrested. Local girls who want to go to the discos on the beach either have to skuttle there furtively while the Politur?s backs are turned or recruit temporary gringo ?boyfriends? to accompany them to the entrance in a ridiculous charade. The latest bit of arbitrary judgment exercised by these self-styled guardians of the town?s morals is that they have arrested girls whose dresses they consider too short ? this on a beach where tourists from all over the world happily spend their days in a state of semi-nakedness.

I know why the Politur takes these actions, but surely acting like little Taliban is no way to improve the town?s image.
 
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suarezn

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I'm sure they're tasked with keeping prostitution down in the town by arresting would be prostitutes, the issue is that how do you determine who is a prostitute or not unless you catch them in the act? I'm sure they know who the real prostitutes are and they could arrest them if they wanted to, but have to present this facade acting like they're actually doing something about "the problem" by harassing every girl in sight.

These are the typical methods of police with little to no education and disregard for human rights. It's the same reason they set up a roadblock anywhere then damn please and inconvenience every driver passing by.

Unfortunately if you live or visit a town with lots of tourism / prostitution you'll see this. Go to the "real" DR and you won't see this occur as it's not a big problem.
 
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PeterInBrat

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Give your house-cleaner 1000 or so pesos to buy herself a basic uniform. I find most Dominicans love work uniforms and it would stop the harassment.
 
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CFA123

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drstock said:
When I came to live in the Dominican Republic, I thought I was coming to a free, open country, liberated to modern western standards.
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That was your mistake.

Overkill seems to be a common characteristic of Dominican police enforcement. Round up all the usual suspects, and a few more for good measure. By and large, it works. The women of accommodating morals will stay home or go find greener pastures. And, like many endeavors, with a little time the discipline of Politur to do the same thing over and over will wain. Then the same problems will trickle back into town and you'll see another big push to do something about it.

That said, there is an organized effort by government, businesses, and interested third parties to clean up a few of the elements deemed less desirable in order for Cabarete to maintain it's appeal, be a safe place to live, and grow the number of visitors. This includes more enforcement officers, better equipment, and improvements to municipal infrastructure (lighting, etc). You're likely to see further evidence of this in the near future.
 
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CFA123

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PeterInBrat said:
Give your house-cleaner 1000 or so pesos to buy herself a basic uniform. I find most Dominicans love work uniforms and it would stop the harassment.
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jackichan said:
And a custom made badge saying she works for you
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First, drstock is not saying this is a problem during the day. I doubt she wants to wear a maid uniform to the discos at 11pm.

Secondly, the 1000 pesos at best will convert into a get out of jail card. You might as well just hand it to Politur now and tell your maid to stay home and watch tv. A lot less drama.

And last, drstock, your good clean-living church going maid is heading out to the discos alone at night? Then she's hoping to leave for the night or a lifetime with a foreigner. Otherwise she'd be hanging out with her friends and potential boyfriends in her own neighborhood. I'm not saying she should be harassed for what she's doing, but a tourist beach bar isn't where a good Dominican church-going girl of the purest morals goes on a regular basis by herself.


 
waytogo

waytogo

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For decent women to be afraid of the Police just for wanting to go out at night is outrageous.....
I wonder how decent men, if harassed like this, would react....

B in Santiago
 
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xamaicano

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Hardly the point. What is deemed appropriate for her to be doing at night shouldn't be an issue. She should have the option to do so if she pleases.

CFA123 said:
And last, drstock, your good clean-living church going maid is heading out to the discos alone at night? Then she's hoping to leave for the night or a lifetime with a foreigner. Otherwise she'd be hanging out with her friends and potential boyfriends in her own neighborhood. I'm not saying she should be harassed for what she's doing, but a tourist beach bar isn't where a good Dominican church-going girl of the purest morals goes on a regular basis by herself.
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DRob

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xamaicano said:
Hardly the point. What is deemed appropriate for her to be doing at night shouldn't be an issue. She should have the option to do so if she pleases.
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Iff'n you say so.

Look, show me the main tourist sector of your town (or any city, for that matter) in NA which is overrun by prostitutes and their low-life moto/drug/criminal-minded buddies, where the business and political folks aren't trying to clean things up.

Sosua is a fun town, and Pedro Clisante is good for what it's good for, but unless they can make the scene more discreet, it'll be impossible to grow the economy beyond geriatric Germans and Italians chasing barely-legal chicas, and east coast Homeboys looking to live out their favorite rap fantasy.

Not a very good option for folks trying to get ready for the new cruise ship port in Puerto Plata.

I like having Sosua-ish fun on occasion as much as the next guy, but yeah, I'd like to walk down the street without worrying about pickpockets, hustlers, and pushers hassling me, while I'm not trying to step over the 4 y.o. who got sent out at 1 a.m. to make begging or shoe-shine money to subsidize grandma's little "habit."
 
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xamaicano

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Well for one, they aren't targeting the "low-life moto/drug/criminal-minded buddies", just the girls. Two, they aren't arresting most of the girls during the commission of a crime but because they are women alone at a certain time of day. And no, I don't know any tourist town in NA where they violate women's human rights simply to make it more palatable to foreigners. If it is that big of a problem, then make prostitution illegal and arrest prostitutes and the guys who partake. But to routinely round up women and arrest them for being prostitutes or because they are suspected of being prostitutes in a country where prostitution is legal so you can have a more enjoyable night on the town is criminal. On one hand gringos complain about the lack rule of law in the DR but then endorse it when it suits them. This isn't about "Sosua-ish fun" it is about violating civil liberties of one segment of society to appease another.


DRob said:
Iff'n you say so.

Look, show me the main tourist sector of your town (or any city, for that matter) in NA which is overrun by prostitutes and their low-life moto/drug/criminal-minded buddies, where the business and political folks aren't trying to clean things up.

Sosua is a fun town, and Pedro Clisante is good for what it's good for, but unless they can make the scene more discreet, it'll be impossible to grow the economy beyond geriatric Germans and Italians chasing barely-legal chicas, and east coast Homeboys looking to live out their favorite rap fantasy.

Not a very good option for folks trying to get ready for the new cruise ship port in Puerto Plata.

I like having Sosua-ish fun on occasion as much as the next guy, but yeah, I'd like to walk down the street without worrying about pickpockets, hustlers, and pushers hassling me, while I'm not trying to step over the 4 y.o. who got sent out at 1 a.m. to make begging or shoe-shine money to subsidize grandma's little "habit."
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wishingiwasthere

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Totally agree with you in every word you say.

Why dont they target the "drug" cartels in Sosua? If I know the guys who are offer "coke" everyone must. Why are they not dealt with!
 
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DRob

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xamaicano said:
Well for one, they aren't targeting the "low-life moto/drug/criminal-minded buddies", just the girls. Two, they aren't arresting most of the girls during the commission of a crime but because they are women alone at a certain time of day. And no, I don't know any tourist town in NA where they violate women's human rights simply to make it more palatable to foreigners. If it is that big of a problem, then make prostitution illegal and arrest prostitutes and the guys who partake. But to routinely round up women and arrest them for being prostitutes or because they are suspected of being prostitutes in a country where prostitution is legal so you can have a more enjoyable night on the town is criminal. On one hand gringos complain about the lack rule of law in the DR but then endorse it when it suits them. This isn't about "Sosua-ish fun" it is about violating civil liberties of one segment of society to appease another.
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Actually, I'm a big fan of the rule of law. The folks who say otherwise are generally looking for a clear path to having their way with 19 y.o. chicas and sankies. You know, the "freedom of sun, sand and sex" crowd, happy to screw everything in sight without issue (let's call them "sexual libertarians"), who will then turn around and complain about how they basically have no effective legal recourse when screwed on a RE deal, or when documents or cash go missing, or when the country doesn't operate as efficiently as Switzerland.

You know, hypocrites.

As with most countries, the DR has been this way for some time. It's not a totalitarian society by any stretch, but it ain't the "wild west" either. You can take it and adapt, or leave it, it's your choice. The newly elected mayor had a conversation with the been-there-forever business sector (including the guys who own the clubs), and based on instructions from SD (other duly elected folk), sprung into action. That's not violating civil rights, so much as enforcing policy. In the States, the federal government calls the program "Weed & Seed." Will we now be debating whether the U.S. has fallen into rank authoritarianism?

Regarding OP's note, comparing pushy tourism cops to the Taliban is, to put it lightly, operating from a false premise. I haven't seen any AMET or Politur cops stoning or cutting noses off chicas lately, and therefore think he/she's overreaching.
 
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xamaicano

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I agree the Taliban comparison is a stretch but the "enforcing policy" is bit draconian since the perpetrators aren't breaking any laws and the enforcement is left up to the arbitrary discretion of the police on the street. While the street action is a nuisance for me, I cannot endorse the rounding up of girls simply to appease my peace of mind. Especially, to the point that girls who are not in the sex industry have to limit their movement. You may say that they shouldn't be out there but why should they have to concern about that. It is their country, their town why should they be restricted to their homes at night simply because it makes me uncomfortable.

DRob said:
It's not a totalitarian society by any stretch, but it ain't the "wild west" either. You can take it and adapt, or leave it, it's your choice. The newly elected mayor had a conversation with the been-there-forever business sector (including the guys who own the clubs), and based on instructions from SD (other duly elected folk), sprung into action. That's not violating civil rights, so much as enforcing policy. In the States, the federal government calls the program "Weed & Seed." Will we now be debating whether the U.S. has fallen into rank authoritarianism?

Regarding OP's note, comparing pushy tourism cops to the Taliban is, to put it lightly, operating from a false premise. I haven't seen any AMET or Politur cops stoning or cutting noses off chicas lately, and therefore think he/she's overreaching.
Click to expand...
 
drstock

drstock

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DRob said:
Regarding OP's note, comparing pushy tourism cops to the Taliban is, to put it lightly, operating from a false premise. I haven't seen any AMET or Politur cops stoning or cutting noses off chicas lately, and therefore think he/she's overreaching.
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Of course my OP headline, of course it's an exagerration, intended to spark some interest. I know the Politur don't go around bombing people but they do set themselves up as moral judges - e.g. arresting girls whose dresses are too short. And by the way, my cleaner doesn't go to discos - she just won't go out AT ALL after dark for fear of being arrested.
 
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FritoBandito

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The politur are a law unto themselves.......

One reason they round-up girls is for free sex.....many working girls have told me this. That is their "get out of jail card," so to speak.

The cops are mafioso and corrupt as hell....no doubt about that!

Because we are tourists and foreigners we haven't had a personal experience with the DR cops.....but most Dominicans know it's in their best interest to steer clear of them.....
 
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