When is self-defense called murder?

belmont

Bronze
Oct 9, 2009
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When it is reported on DR1. Todays news:
Man murdered by 75-year old

Rafael Anibal Castillo, aged 75, was arrested by Sosua police yesterday after beating Frankin Gutierrez, aged 40, to death in Sosua. Castillo said that he had won the lottery in Loma del Chivo in Sosua and was followed home by Gutierrez who then tried to take his RD$6,000 winnings.

Castillo said he had to defend himself with a stick with which he then repeatedly beat Gutierrez, who subsequently died in the Ricardo Limardo hospital.

This guy should receive a hero's parade in Sosua.
 

zoomzx11

Gold
Jan 21, 2006
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Great story with a happy ending. Castillo is a hero worthy of a ticker tape parade. Gutierrez, sadly, is deprived the opportunity to learn a lesson. I have found that a lot of old people got old by being smart. The dumb ones die off young like Gutierrez. Castillo should not be arrested but its the DR. In the real world Castillo woud be celebrated. Hats off to a wonderful guy. Lets talk to Ken and see if he can use his influence with Sosua News to do a story on this guy.
 

DominiRican

Member
Apr 7, 2004
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When it is reported on DR1. Todays news:

This guy should receive a hero's parade in Sosua.

yeah, Gutierrez is 40 years old, I don't have much sympathy. If he were a teenager I might have hope they can mature, but at 40 I don't know what else you can offer society if it doesn't bother you attacking a 75 year old man.
 

imfromda305

New member
Dec 9, 2011
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BUT, at the same time.. one has to think that whenever you got your attacker on the ground there should be a possibility for you to see the difference between self defense, fckng dude up, killing dude!

Don't get me wrong, I don't care about the robbers at any time.. but I'm so happen to be in a mode where I have to say IT'S STILL A LIVE / HUMAN BEING!

At the end of the day, we never know how the guy beat him up.. was it on the body or on the face?! Was dude knocked out or what!?!

Yeah yeah yeah, robbing people is not the way to go..
 

belgiank

Silver
Jun 13, 2009
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Killing a guy over 6,000 rds??? Come on!!!

I know it is a lot of money for a lot of people over here, like a months wages. But killing him over it??? With a stick???

Let us be honest... he had the right to defend his winnings. He had the right to beat the other guy with a stick, to do so...

But, after he beat the other guy into unconsciousness, he could have trussed him up, and called the police... He did not have to continue beating him untill he was dead...

BelgianK
 

belmont

Bronze
Oct 9, 2009
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Let us be honest... But, after he beat the other guy into unconsciousness, he could have trussed him up, and called the police... He did not have to continue beating him untill he was dead...

BelgianK
Glad you were there so you can set us straight on what happened. You sure he didn't fracture his skull with the first blow from the stick? Or, the guy didn't hit his head when he fell to the ground? I guess we'll wait for thr autopsy to see if he died from cardiac arrest due to being full of speed. Oh right, you said he was beaten until dead, case closed.
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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Street Justice, I love it. :cheeky:

I'll bet nobody will fark with that old man ever again...

You wanna rob someone? Do it at your own risk. The risk includes an ugly death. Caveat Emptor.

And nothing like a keyboard hero preaching what "HE'D a DONE" in Porky BadAss 20/20 Hindsight fashion.

I've been in the middle of a home invasion, two intruders. I can tell you that a person has NO idea what they'd do when that happens, and no idea how much adrenalin is coursing through your brain and veins in that moment...

I doubt the oldster knew if the punk was armed or not. I don't blame him for beating the crap out of him to alleviate any possibility of reprisal...

Well done!

It's not a victims responsibility to ensure the health and safety of a thug.
 

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
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The videos of this old guy in jail show the "victim" was strung up, up-side down!, after he was killed. A hammer and a "col?n" (a machete) were also used on the would be assailant.

I seriously doubt that the old man will be prosecuted. But we'll see.

Stay tuned.

HB
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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Hipolito should name him as "Jefe De Policia" in his administration if he gets elected!
I gotta love "Street Justice"!
No police,no trial,no prison,it's all FREE!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

ExtremeR

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Mar 22, 2006
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Killing a guy over 6,000 rds??? Come on!!!

I know it is a lot of money for a lot of people over here, like a months wages. But killing him over it??? With a stick???

Let us be honest... he had the right to defend his winnings. He had the right to beat the other guy with a stick, to do so...

But, after he beat the other guy into unconsciousness, he could have trussed him up, and called the police... He did not have to continue beating him untill he was dead...

BelgianK

It could be RD$100.00. That's not the point, the point is the guy was trying to prey on the "weak" 75 year old grandpa after he had a break winning the lottery. Well done by "Grandpa"..
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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Hipolito should name him as "Jefe De Policia" in his administration if he gets elected!
I gotta love "Street Justice"!
No police,no trial,no prison,it's all FREE!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
Maybe he'll earn a Candelier Peace Award, highly coveted by Law and Order Dominicans...;)
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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I say,"Keep beating the thief,until the police arrive.
That is in about 6 hours here in the DR,if ever!
What do you want the "Old Guy" to do,stop and see if the thief still has a pulse.
Police once told me,"If one of the twp is dead when they arrive,they only hear one story about what happened.
I prefer that they hear only,"My Side Of The Story"!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

zoomzx11

Gold
Jan 21, 2006
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Heads are fragile, it only takes one blow. Maybe he hit him a few extra to be sure. After all he is 70 and does not want the assailant to get up and come at him again. The underlying lesson here is never, ever, call the police in the DR. They will only make matters much worse and in rapid fashion.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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Police once told me,"If one of the twp is dead when they arrive,they only hear one story about what happened.
I prefer that they hear only,"My Side Of The Story"!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
Good advice except to the uber-PC Kum-Bay-Ya crowd...
 

Givadogahome

Silver
Sep 27, 2011
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In a modern world self defense becomes murder when excess use of force is used to protect ones self. In itself is a stupid definition as if you don't beat them hard enough then they can get up and attack again, but if you do use excess force then you are a murderer. I don't care what anyone says RD6,000 is pittance for anyone living on a coastline environment, you can say it is so much, but these guys probably could have more money through their hands each day than most expats, they just don't know how to control money or themselves ,if they did, many would be much better off. I'd like to see street floggings brought back. 10 - 15 years ago they used to have such things if the neighbourhood caught a thief, they would spend the entire day being beaten with electrical cable to within an inch of life, then if the family wanted to collect them they could, if not,then they would go suffer in jail. I don't see or hear of this justice much anymore
 

Ken

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
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Those rushing to judgement should put themselves in the shoes of a man 75 years old who has been attacked by a man about half his age. The victim is lucky to be alive. I'm sure that if I were in the situation I would feel I was fighting for my life and if I were lucky enough to get the attacker on the ground I would do whatever was necessary to keep him from getting up and killing me. My adrenaline would be motivating every swing of the stick and I doubt I would be capable of stopping even if I wanted to.

There are many reports like this, including large numbers of people rushing to the aid of someone being victimized on the street and not only beating the attacker, but in some cases even stringing him up.

It is not the amount of money that motivates these actions, it is the frustration with the seeming lack of action by the authorities to reduce crime and delinquency and the need to do something to fight back.

I would be very surprised if the man was prosecuted t any time and certainly not less than 2 months from a presidential election.
 

ExtremeR

Silver
Mar 22, 2006
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In a modern world self defense becomes murder when excess use of force is used to protect ones self. In itself is a stupid definition as if you don't beat them hard enough then they can get up and attack again, but if you do use excess force then you are a murderer. I don't care what anyone says RD6,000 is pittance for anyone living on a coastline environment, you can say it is so much, but these guys probably could have more money through their hands each day than most expats, they just don't know how to control money or themselves ,if they did, many would be much better off. I'd like to see street floggings brought back. 10 - 15 years ago they used to have such things if the neighbourhood caught a thief, they would spend the entire day being beaten with electrical cable to within an inch of life, then if the family wanted to collect them they could, if not,then they would go suffer in jail. I don't see or hear of this justice much anymore

Oh boy, this should be the most clueless post for the last month.