Just hire a Haitian...

CFA123

Silver
May 29, 2004
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My first exposure to DR, one of the things that struck me immediately was the amount of inefficient manual labor performed for which modern equipment could be substituted. Things such as digging miles of roadside ditches with pick & shovel, cutting grass on hands and knees with machetes, watering an expanse of yard for hours with a handheld hose instead of sprinkler, sweeping a large parking lot by hand when a leaf blower could do it in minutes, etc, etc.

The years go by and recently I was in the U.S. listening to my tired and aching sister (mid-40's) recount putting in a new 20 foot x 20 foot flowerbed. As the soil is largely clay, she'd had to water the area extensively to soften the ground, pull out a roto-tiller on which the pull cord broke, repair the tiller, spend literally hours trying to get the tiller to break through the earth, get the tines of the tiller unstuck several times, pull out an axe and chop through several large roots, load up the clay and haul it off, bring in planting soil, and plant shrubs and flowers.

As the story progressed, all I could think was "you should've hired a Haitian!". As we were sitting in a restaurant, I wasn't willing to voice my opinion lest someone nearby overhear. In that environment, it would've sounded crass at best, extremely racist at worst.

No point to the story, other than how one's thoughts change over time based on experience.
 
Jun 18, 2007
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www.rentalmetrocountry.com
My first exposure to DR, one of the things that struck me immediately was the amount of inefficient manual labor performed for which modern equipment could be substituted. Things such as digging miles of roadside ditches with pick & shovel, cutting grass on hands and knees with machetes, watering an expanse of yard for hours with a handheld hose instead of sprinkler, sweeping a large parking lot by hand when a leaf blower could do it in minutes, etc, etc.

The years go by and recently I was in the U.S. listening to my tired and aching sister (mid-40's) recount putting in a new 20 foot x 20 foot flowerbed. As the soil is largely clay, she'd had to water the area extensively to soften the ground, pull out a roto-tiller on which the pull cord broke, repair the tiller, spend literally hours trying to get the tiller to break through the earth, get the tines of the tiller unstuck several times, pull out an axe and chop through several large roots, load up the clay and haul it off, bring in planting soil, and plant shrubs and flowers.

As the story progressed, all I could think was "you should've hired a Haitian!". As we were sitting in a restaurant, I wasn't willing to voice my opinion lest someone nearby overhear. In that environment, it would've sounded crass at best, extremely racist at worst.

No point to the story, other than how one's thoughts change over time based on experience.

Maybe she could adopt one? ;)
 

william webster

Platinum
Jan 16, 2009
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All in a Day's Work

Haitians or Rd'ers, makes no difference.
They look like they are accomplishing nothing until you inspect at the end of the day.
I can never believe the amount they get done by hand.

We trimmed tree not long ago.....
As efficiently as if I used had used Davey tree or some other group.

No setup time - just climb the tree and start chopping
No coffee breaks - just bring in the water.

Done in no time.

Just outside RSJ, the Garcia farms cuts it roadside ditches by hand - machetes/collines - just over a mile of ditches.
2 miles when you count both sides of the road.
It never takes more than a day.

Sr Manuel Labor reigns supreme!!;)
 

Jumbo

Bronze
Jul 8, 2005
1,503
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You actually think you could find a Haitian in the land of opportunity to dig anything. Most do not even shovel snow. They just gun it and hop the snow bank into their driveways. There is a big Haitian population in my area mostly all working in the health care field. The Central Americans south of Mexico are the up and coming landscapers.
 

pedrochemical

Silver
Aug 22, 2008
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I used to be involved in digging very big holes in the ground in Haiti.
You can hire a backhoe for 600US$ per day and dig 2 or 3 if the locations permit.
Or you can do the done thing and have a team of workers dig the hole.
The hole then takes 2 days to dig, no great shakes if the project takes 10 weeks to complete.

The advantage of having the hole dug by hand is that the money goes into the pockets of some people who need it rather than the backhoe guy who pays his operator a pittance.

The downside is that the contractor will sub-contract to a guy who pays a friend who gets his cousin to hire a guy to find 4 other guys who have their cousins dig the hole.
Everyone down the line gets paid so there is not much left for the guy using the picks and shovels.

But at least the work goes to locals who in rural Haiti are very happy to have any kind of paid work for a change.

Bear in mind that digging a hole in rural Haiti is very, very hot and tiring work.
These guys are tough.

The other downside is that when one of the people in the line of gravy suckers decides not to pay the next guy, the job stops and they come after you for the money.

Haitians rock when it comes to digging holes.
I would recommend them over a mechanical solution any day of the week.

Is that politically incorrect?
Maybe but it is true.
 

CFA123

Silver
May 29, 2004
3,512
413
83
You actually think you could find a Haitian in the land of opportunity to dig anything. Most do not even shovel snow. They just gun it and hop the snow bank into their driveways. There is a big Haitian population in my area mostly all working in the health care field. The Central Americans south of Mexico are the up and coming landscapers.

You miss the point, Jumbo.

I know she can't "just hire a Haitian" or anyone else for a pittance to get manual labor done.
My point is that there was a time when I also could only think of having a huge storage room full of equipment from Home Depot and doing all these jobs myself.

Now, different time and I'm in a different place. I can't at this point even imagine buying quality equipment as parts/repairs are difficult to come by and those I'd have use it would mistreat it and/or have no clue how to operate it. Trim the walkway with a weedeater? Nah. More difficult to break machetes, shovels, and pick axes... and easier to replace when necessary.
 

CFA123

Silver
May 29, 2004
3,512
413
83
I used to be involved in digging very big holes in the ground in Haiti.
You can hire a backhoe for 600US$ per day and dig 2 or 3 if the locations permit.
Or you can do the done thing and have a team of workers dig the hole.
The hole then takes 2 days to dig, no great shakes if the project takes 10 weeks to complete.

The advantage of having the hole dug by hand is that the money goes into the pockets of some people who need it rather than the backhoe guy who pays his operator a pittance.

The downside is that the contractor will sub-contract to a guy who pays a friend who gets his cousin to hire a guy to find 4 other guys who have their cousins dig the hole.
Everyone down the line gets paid so there is not much left for the guy using the picks and shovels.

But at least the work goes to locals who in rural Haiti are very happy to have any kind of paid work for a change.

Bear in mind that digging a hole in rural Haiti is very, very hot and tiring work.
These guys are tough.

The other downside is that when one of the people in the line of gravy suckers decides not to pay the next guy, the job stops and they come after you for the money.

Haitians rock when it comes to digging holes.
I would recommend them over a mechanical solution any day of the week.

Is that politically incorrect?
Maybe but it is true.

That's on point, Pedro. Doing it the way it's done in the 'first world' just doesn't make sense here and as you say there IS the added benefit of putting needed money into the pockets of those doing the work. Takes a little time to realize that.

Then there are others that get an ego boost from being able to say they have people working for them for subpar wages - I find those people disgusting. These workers deserve a lot of respect for actually getting up and working hard all day to support themselves.
 

william webster

Platinum
Jan 16, 2009
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You miss the point, Jumbo.

I know she can't "just hire a Haitian" or anyone else for a pittance to get manual labor done.
My point is that there was a time when I also could only think of having a huge storage room full of equipment from Home Depot and doing all these jobs myself.

Now, different time and I'm in a different place. I can't at this point even imagine buying quality equipment as parts/repairs are difficult to come by and those I'd have use it would mistreat it and/or have no clue how to operate it. Trim the walkway with a weedeater? Nah. More difficult to break machetes, shovels, and pick axes... and easier to replace when necessary.


I have seen gardeners break the most 'unbreakable' things, altho lately I have a very careful one.

The one yr old lawn mower looks like new, el trimmer works well and is getting an upgrade with a hedge trimmer attachment for higher reaches.

But generally. I agree with you.

Another fellow broke a rake the other day - raking
 

pedrochemical

Silver
Aug 22, 2008
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Then there are others that get an ego boost from being able to say they have people working for them for subpar wages - I find those people disgusting.

This is one thing about which I am a stickler.

You must pay a living wage which is around 2-3 times the going rate - and absorb that into your bottom line.
There are associated problems paying over the odds but it can be done if you know what you are doing. Many people on this board got bit in the ass by paying their employees too much because they felt guilty, somehow. Then when it came time to part company they find the local labour office breathing down their neck for insanely inflated severance deals.


This is not charity or because I am a good guy.
It is so that I can sleep soundly at night knowing that the guys digging the hole can sleep soundly at night.
 

rice&beans

Silver
May 16, 2010
4,293
374
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You actually think you could find a Haitian in the land of opportunity to dig anything. Most do not even shovel snow. They just gun it and hop the snow bank into their driveways. There is a big Haitian population in my area mostly all working in the health care field. The Central Americans south of Mexico are the up and coming landscapers.


Agreed......(without generalizing tooo much)

Every Haitian I know in the USA, is either going to school to get an advanced degree.....(or already has one)

Is working two or three jobs, or are working in the health care field, funny how that works....

No wonder why Dominicans can't stand em......



Up and coming landscapers?? Def NOT Haitian......
 

xwill

New member
Dec 2, 2011
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Agreed......(without generalizing tooo much)

Every Haitian I know in the USA, is either going to school to get an advanced degree.....(or already has one)

Is working two or three jobs, or are working in the health care field, funny how that works....

No wonder why Dominicans can't stand em......



Up and coming landscapers?? Def NOT Haitian......

I have seen a ton of them driving cabs... Nothing wrong with that
 

expatsooner

Bronze
Aug 7, 2004
712
11
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I do see the original point of the OP - once you live overseas many times your thought process about problem solving changes - example I needed some new paperwork from a DR government office so I was talking to my mom about it and after a while she asked how long it would take and I said I would get it that day since I had sent a "propina" with the guy going to the office for me. I moved on to talking about something else and my mom stopped me and said you realize you are talking about bribing an official of the government? I stopped to think about it and yea she was right but that is just how you get things done and I had been there for years and didn't think about it in regards to USA lifestyle anymore. Skill sets change in response to different situations........
 

southwardbound2

New member
Jun 5, 2008
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This is one thing about which I am a stickler.

You must pay a living wage which is around 2-3 times the going rate - and absorb that into your bottom line.
There are associated problems paying over the odds but it can be done if you know what you are doing. Many people on this board got bit in the ass by paying their employees too much because they felt guilty, somehow. Then when it came time to part company they find the local labour office breathing down their neck for insanely inflated severance deals.
I'd love to learn your methods. Care to educate?
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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I'd love to learn your methods. Care to educate?


Learn the law and make it work for you.
Then abide by it when it all goes wrong.
Keep the paperwork in order for when you need to show you did everything exactly by the book.

Hiring people as independent contractors is one way but as I say you have to make sure you do not rip them off or the Loupgarou will get you...
 

AlterEgo

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 9, 2009
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South Coast
Mr. AE is constantly frustrated that everything our caretaker uses gets broken at our house.

Everything.

Manual, electric, gas powered.

He grumbles and complains (to me mostly, haha). And this is the "good stuff" he brings from NJ.

He's actually wondered if the guy rents the stuff out when we're not there :ermm:
 

jrhartley

Gold
Sep 10, 2008
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you would presume that things from home would be better made , but often they dont stand up to the climate, so you may as well buy three cheaper models
 

william webster

Platinum
Jan 16, 2009
30,247
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It ain't the climate...... unless you have a good gardener doubling as a mechanic, you'll need to buy every year or two.

As for 'cheaper'... RD doesn't have such a thing.