Battery / Inversol help needed!

Orange LED

TravelHippo said:

Our inversol is the type that switches off from charging automatically....

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What brand/type of inverter (spanish: inversor) do you have?

TravelHippo said:

It tends to have the steady orange light on when their is street power... this says it means 'float'.

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If it is a TRACE or XANTREX inverter the steady orange LED indicates it is in BULK CHARGING stage, after sufficient charging it would change to 'blinking orange' (absorption stage, approx. 29.2 V) and then 'green (= float stage).

donP

P.S.:
Just saw your last post.
Check your Battery Type Selector settings, which should correspond to the type of batteries you have.
'Wet' batteries (deep cycle type) setting is 7.

Checking with a volt meter does give an indication of the health of the batteries but using a hydrometer to measure the specific gravity of each cell and making sure they are all the same is a more important measurement.

Checking the batteries when they are dead is NOT correct. They should be checked when full (green Float condition) . Get another electrician.


Xantrex is an excellent brand of inverter. It may be a good idea to have it checked out just to make sure it is going through the Bulk Charge (orange) Absorption (blinking orange ) and Float (green) phases correctly. The Absorption phase is dependent upon the battery bank size and should last about one hour when the bank size setting is correct.

The over-discharge protection circuit on the Xantrex unit should be on, which means the inverter will turn off and not provide power if the batteries drop below 20% of capacity. I know this limits the time you can run on the inverter, but if the batteries were constantly discharged below 20% they could indeed already have become damaged and need replacing even after less than a year. Batteries should also be equalized regularly ( about every 10 discharge cycles) which for you is just about every week.

The charging current should be set between 1/10 and 1/8 of your battery bank capacity and not higher than that so as not to harm the batteries by charging them to quickly. Eight 225 Ah batteries in two banks of 4 will have a capacity of 450 Ah at a voltage of 24 volts. Charge rate should be between 45 Amps and 56 Amps with the lower number being preferred - lower is always better if possible. The lower charge rate may not be enough to replenish the energy between blackouts, so you end up turning up the charge rate to compensate and shorten the battery life.

My gut feel is that your batteries are already "old" and will need to be replaced soon or they will continue to overheat because of that. One thing you can do temporarily is to turn up the bank size higher so that the batteries go from Bulk to Float more quickly. They won't contain as much power, but it can help for a short period of time to not waste energy. Some people will recommend a chemical additive called EDTA (or the local version called Battery Viagra) to try and rejuvenate the batteries which have become sulphated by abuse, but EDTA has not done anything to help that I have seen.

I also recommend you use the red TROJAN T105 batteries since they seem to take abuse better. What kind do you have now?

TravelHippo said:

Battery Type Selector is correct... set at 7. Battery capacity is set between 170 and 340. Battery charger rate is just over a quarter of the way between the 'min.' dot and the 'max' dot. For example, if the min dot was zero and the max dot was 100, it would be about 27.

Checked it again and is still solid green 'float'. I did see on a manual online that float charging is minimal charging and may not be good for some batteries. Could that be affecting it? I don't know how I could change that though? Also wanted to point out that the invertor isn't hot at all... just the batteries... and the water seems to be boiling/bubbling inside them, sometimes boiling right over.

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7 is correct for flooded lead acid batteries normally sold here. Trojan/US Battery/NAPA/Interstate/Energy, etc.

The charger rate is set OK because it is below 1/10th the battery bank size, but that may not be enough to fill the batteries between blackouts.

GREEN Float: Since you are using the batteries all the time and they don't just stay in float, the comment about battery damage does not apply. That is if the batteries are hardly ever used and just stay in float for months at a time. Something that never happens for you. Nor is it something we can worry about here using the types of inverter chargers we need to use.

Either your inverter is not functioning properly and turning down the charge current at float or you have bad batteries. My guess is bad batteries, but an electrician can tell you that by measuring the charge current, battery voltages and specific gravities. HOT batteries almost always equals BAD or at least FAILING batteries.

By the way, DonP also knows battery inverter systems very well..

TravelHippo said:

Oh sorry, I forgot to answer... my current batteries are Premiere EXTREME Heavy Duty Deep Cycle 6 volt. Also checked the date on the Invertor. It says June 2005. And the type is a DR3624.

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Same model inverter and vintage that I currently use. Your batteries sound like "low end" batteries and a potential example of the "buy cheap, buy twice" saying.

TravelHippo said:

Thank you so much for all of your advice!! It means a lot. We are getting so frustrated with this. It is just nice to hear from someone who knows more than our electrician seems to! I have now set the over-discharge protection on. I wonder if it being off is what damaged our batteries because I know you aren't supposed to let them die completely, correct?

Fully discharging this type of battery is indeed very bad for them and can cause damage.


And ours have about 4 times in the past two months. Do you think that would be the reason?

That is 4 times they full discharged. You don't know how many times they went below 20% and that is also bad. You might need to upgrade to 12 quality batteries.

Otherwise, I don't know why the batteries would have gone bad so quickly as we were taking good care of them until these issues started a couple of months ago? Also of course, I am sure the crazy electricity here doesn't help but worry if it is that, it will just do the same thing with new batteries! :/

It will certainly be frustrating if it is the batteries again since this is the second replacement but before we buy anything new, we need to find an electrician who knows what he is doing so things don't go bad quickly all over again.

Finally, did the battery capacity setting I mentioned of between 170 - 340 sound right? I didn't mention the Search Mode Watts setting before. It is set close to MIN (about 20% of the way between MIN and MAX). Does that sound right? I have no idea what that setting means.



I will keep the charger rate setting the same for now if you think it is okay.

The battery setting is not excessive, but as mentioned before, might not be enough to fully charge the batteries between blackouts.

Thank you again so very much for your help!!

Mission: 'find new electrician who actually has the tools to properly check our invertor and batteries' is now on!

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Probably a good idea. I have no idea who is good in Cabrera.

I can check in Gaspar H if you want. See if there is good electrician around.

Let me know

Yes, all batteries have a limited life. It is related to the depth of discharge. At 10% depth 5 - 7 years is possible.

If discharge is limited the life will be greater.

Ways to do this:

Use 12 volt high efficiency fans - e.g. 02 cool from Amazon.

Use high efficiency lights - now LED lights are twice as efficient as CFC - e.g. Phillips. Last 15 years.

Use Icemaker running when elec is on and thermos flasks/food jars packed with ice to keep foods cold instead of using a fridge when mains is off. (photos anyone interested ? )

Store items that do not absolutely need a fridge under inverted flowerpot covered with wet old towel.

Turn off main inverter and use efficient 100- 500 watt inverter when power is off.

Use LED low energy 20 inch TV or LED monitor attached to laptop.

Aim for energy useage that gets you into lowest payment band.

Use solar oven - not microwave.

Augment by solar power.

Use insulation if areas are getting hot and need powerful fans etc.

Preserve the fossil fuel resources of the planet for future generations.

Remember inverter/battery combination is only 80% efficient.

Yes a good expat life with elec bill of $25 dollars a month plus or minus is possible.

yapask1

yapask1 said:

Yes, all batteries have a limited life. It is related to the depth of discharge. At 10% depth 5 - 7 years is possible.

If discharge is limited the life will be greater.

Ways to do this:

Use 12 volt high efficiency fans - e.g. 02 cool from Amazon.

Use high efficiency lights - now LED lights are twice as efficient as CFC - e.g. Phillips. Last 15 years.

Use Icemaker running when elec is on and thermos flasks/food jars packed with ice to keep foods cold instead of using a fridge when mains is off. (photos anyone interested ? )

Store items that do not absolutely need a fridge under inverted flowerpot covered with wet old towel.

Turn off main inverter and use efficient 100- 500 watt inverter when power is off.

Use LED low energy 20 inch TV or LED monitor attached to laptop.

Aim for energy useage that gets you into lowest payment band.

Use solar oven - not microwave.

Augment by solar power.

Use insulation if areas are getting hot and need powerful fans etc.

Preserve the fossil fuel resources of the planet for future generations.

Remember inverter/battery combination is only 80% efficient.

Yes a good expat life with elec bill of $25 dollars a month plus or minus is possible.

yapask1

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Possible? Maybe. Practical for only .01 X 10-9 % of the population.

I fully concur with windeguy's opinion.

A voltage meter can be used to check at what voltage the bulk charge stage switches over to the absoption charge (= 29.2 V). The gassing should then get less and less and stop.
Otherwise a voltmeter is only good to check how much and quickly your batteries' voltage drops when a high load is applied.

Even if the over discharge protection is set at OFF, there is still an inbuilt threshold of 16.4V at which your inverter would shut down.
[I set mine at MAX because I like the faster transfer when my generator shuts down.]

The search mode watts setting does not have anything to do with your problem, I'd turn it off (= defeat).

I have never heard of the brand of your batteries. They may not be real deep cycle batteries and their label may have been put on in the DR...

Maybe your batteries were not equalized regularly in their early life and the plates have hard sulfate, thus reducing the capacity.

Internal short-circuits can also cause excessive temperature. Warped plates (= bad quality) or too much bottom deposits, which finally reach the plates are likely reasons for that.

Bottom line:
I think, your inverter is OK, your batteries need replacement (T-105).

donP

windeguy said:

Possible? Maybe. Practical for only .01 X 10-9 % of the population.

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I do not see the difference between my o2 fan and ceiling fan in my appartment.

Phillips LED light bulbs are a big success Worldwide.

Insulation is good - has been used in many thousands of commecial premises. RadientGuard could not of grown on 0.01% of population.

Many people are using Solar augmentation.

Solar has grown to 3% of power in some countries.

Thermos sales are up - I can see why with uncertain elec supplies in India, US, etc. etc.

High efficiency fans and fridges are growing in market share.

Solar prices are reducing - down 50% in 2 years.

So let us not have more senseless posts - it is up to all to do their bit to reduce energy consumption.

Japan and others are in energy crisis - expect more innovations.

yapask1

Your Posts

yapask1 said:

So let us not have more senseless posts -

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Yes, please. :tired:

donP

I would have mostly solar power if I thought I could go away for a week and still have it when i come back.......

Popular Panels

davetuna said:

I would have mostly solar power if I thought I could go away for a week and still have it when i come back.......

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Or not have it.... :laugh:

Detienen haitiano por robo de paneles solares en Bani*

http://www.elcaribe.com.do/2012/02/06/cortan-postes-luz-puente-para-robarse-los-paneles-solares


donP