Reasons for Dominican mess

Mauricio

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Nov 18, 2002
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In this morning's Estilos (Diario Libre) there is below pasted column about how DR / Santo Domingo was under Trujillo and giving a possible reason how the country became such a mess in all senses of the word. I just assumed Dominicans are how they are (messy, chivos sin ley, bending the rules and abusing of position). The column states it's a reaction on the iron rule of Trujillo that made people do whatever they wanted when the regained their freedom and the bad example of TPTB only stimulates that.

You would think that something created in 50 years can be fixed. Too bad Danilo only stays for 4 years, he does give the good example.

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Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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Sorry Mauricio, the article is just his "Twist" on the Dominican philosophy of, "No Es Mi Culpa"!!!!!!!
He just blames someone dead for 50 years, and not EVERYONE, but himself!
He takes a page from the "Obamacrats".
"It's George Bush's FAULT!"
I hope I live long enough to see the day when it's NOT George Bush's "FAULT", because that should give me at least 50 more years to live!
Dominicans "Can Not, Have Not, and NEVER WILL" accept personal, or "communal" responsibility for their actions!!!
Bring back "El JEFE", that's the only way for these "sheep" to be herded, and then "Corralled"!
I guess I have been a little tough on Dominican Society here, but then, "It's Not MY Fault" now is it??? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
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ps, I love to look at "Estilos".
Once I even saw a black peron there.
I was "SHOCKED", but then I saw that it was just the President of Haiti on a visit.
If you look at "Estilos" you would think that this entire country is "Blanco"!
 

LTSteve

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Jul 9, 2010
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It is like the same argument about blaming your parents for your poor and sometimes criminal behavior. You reach a point in adulthood that you have to take personal responsibility for your actions. Don't blame your parents, your DNA or your peer group(unless you are gang member than throw that all out the window). In the DR, society in many ways, have more freedoms than in North America or Europe. The more social freedom the more chance for personal abuse. Check yourself.

LTSteve
 

the gorgon

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Sep 16, 2010
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Sorry Mauricio, the article is just his "Twist" on the Dominican philosophy of, "No Es Mi Culpa"!!!!!!!
He just blames someone dead for 50 years, and not EVERYONE, but himself!
He takes a page from the "Obamacrats".
"It's George Bush's FAULT!"
I hope I live long enough to see the day when it's NOT George Bush's "FAULT", because that should give me at least 50 more years to live!
Dominicans "Can Not, Have Not, and NEVER WILL" accept personal, or "communal" responsibility for their actions!!!
Bring back "El JEFE", that's the only way for these "sheep" to be herded, and then "Corralled"!
I guess I have been a little tough on Dominican Society here, but then, "It's Not MY Fault" now is it??? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
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ps, I love to look at "Estilos".
Once I even saw a black peron there.
I was "SHOCKED", but then I saw that it was just the President of Haiti on a visit.
If you look at "Estilos" you would think that this entire country is "Blanco"!

i once thought it was a Norwegian magazine, until i looked at the language.
 

RonS

Bronze
Oct 18, 2004
1,457
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It is like the same argument about blaming your parents for your poor and sometimes criminal behavior. You reach a point in adulthood that you have to take personal responsibility for your actions. Don't blame your parents, your DNA or your peer group(unless you are gang member than throw that all out the window). In the DR, society in many ways, have more freedoms than in North America or Europe. The more social freedom the more chance for personal abuse. Check yourself. LTSteve

?Es totalmente correcto!
 

dv8

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Sep 27, 2006
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dominican people should be now digging el jefe up to kiss his bony a**. he was the one who built huge streets in the middle of nowhere, on the outskirts of ciudad de trujillo, in the times where there were few cars and they all belonged to him. today, those streets are called churchill, lincoln, jf kennedy and they are the main arteries of the capital. trujillo was the one who brought the power to dominican cities and maintained the electricity system in a pristine condition. his obsession with everything new and great meant installation of telephones, construction of bridges and so on.

yes, i know he was a dictator, yes, i know he was a ruthless bastard, yes, i know he had people murdered for nothing. but let us not forget that he did have a vision of DR as a great power (talk about the illusion de grandeur...) and he followed it.

dang. it is like talking about communism in poland in the 50s and the 60s. yes, there was no freedom to tell a political joke. but there was freedom to walk the streets at night safely and the freedom not to lock your doors. yes, normal people were scared of the police but so were the criminals who were relentlessly pursued. with all the bad, there was also lots of good.
 

LTSteve

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Jul 9, 2010
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Bob:

I can only speak for what I have observed in Las Terrenas. Garbage pick up is still a problem but progress is being made. The beaches are being raked regularly and large garbage bins have been placed and an attempt is being made to empty them regularly. What needs to be cleaned up is those pockets of garbage found in empty lots and along roadsides. As we know, labor is cheap and it would be well worth the expenditure by municipalities to hire people to clean up these problem areas and then due maintenance on a regular basis. This may be once a month or even every other month. This would solve an ongoing problem and clean up waist that contributes to disease and pollution.

LTSTeve
 

Mauricio

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Nov 18, 2002
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I don't think looking or the origin of the mess the society is, is playing the 'no es mi culpa' card. In Europe they have been finding reason how the holocaust could have taken place, how it could happen that in Holland the highest percentage of Jews were caught (reasons: very efficient administration before the war, small country with less space to hide). Are those valid reasons, is it valid fact finding or is that just finding excuses?

How could the economy get in such a financial and later economical crisis? In ding reasons for that is that fact finding, trying to learn from what went wrong or just saying, it's not my fault?

This guy is basically blaming the Dominican people for abusing the liberty they got and looking for ways to fix it. I don't see any 'no es mi culpa' here.
 

dv8

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Sep 27, 2006
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And that is OK?!

did i say it was? he was an evil man but trujillo did good things for DR too. i think that over 50 years after his death people should have cooled down enough to be able to see that that the good went with the bad...
 

bob saunders

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Jan 1, 2002
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Bob:

I can only speak for what I have observed in Las Terrenas. Garbage pick up is still a problem but progress is being made. The beaches are being raked regularly and large garbage bins have been placed and an attempt is being made to empty them regularly. What needs to be cleaned up is those pockets of garbage found in empty lots and along roadsides. As we know, labor is cheap and it would be well worth the expenditure by municipalities to hire people to clean up these problem areas and then due maintenance on a regular basis. This may be once a month or even every other month. This would solve an ongoing problem and clean up waist that contributes to disease and pollution.

LTSTeve

I am fortunate to live in a part of Jarabacoa that has daily street cleaning. Kids and adults alike (not all but many) throw their garbage on the sidewalk or street. We are attempting to train/enforce the picking up of garbage in the school but it takes constant re-enforcement. The same goes for waiting in line, waiting their turn, waiting for teachers assistance....etc. Having said all that there are many Dominicans that are gracious, polite, well-mannered and not only concerned about the enviroment but are ecologically aware and active, as well as law abiding.
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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dominican people should be now digging el jefe up to kiss his bony a**. he was the one who built huge streets in the middle of nowhere, on the outskirts of ciudad de trujillo, in the times where there were few cars and they all belonged to him. today, those streets are called churchill, lincoln, jf kennedy and they are the main arteries of the capital.
Yes, Trujillo did improve, scratch that, built the infrastructure of this country from which all the rest has followed, but avenidas Churchill and Lincoln were built in Balaguer's years. Balaguer was heavily criticized for ordering the Churchill to be so wide, they said it was a waste of money in a city that didn't needed it. Sort of how people criticize the Metro. :cheeky:

There are people that still criticize the overpasses, underpasses and tunnels that were built in the 1990s. They do this even while using those infrastructures. It would be nice if the critics would not drive through the tunnels and on the overpasses, stick to the slow lanes and suffer every traffic light and intersection as they cross the city. That is the least they can do. lol

dv8 said:
trujillo was the one who brought the power to dominican cities and maintained the electricity system in a pristine condition. his obsession with everything new and great meant installation of telephones, construction of bridges and so on.
Yes, its impossible to travel through any area of the country and not see or use an infrastructure built by Trujillo. Take, for example, the drive from Sos?a to Puerto Plata. Along the way you will eventually have to pass through a metal bridge, which until recently had not received much maintenance. That bridge, like practically all metal bridges in the country, was built by Trujillo. Then in Puerto Plata itself, the Cathedral of San Felipe was also Trujillo (like practically all Art Deco buildings), the Fortaleza de San Felipe was restored by Trujillo and plenty of other etc. Of course, the Puerto Plata of Trujillo days was not the Puerto Plata of today. Back then, the city ended on the edges of the what is now considered "El Centro". All those other sectors (Bayardo, Torre Alta, Cristo Rey, etc) was nothing but a mixture of forest and pasture land with a few campesinos attending small conucos, that's it.

dv8 said:
yes, i know he was a dictator, yes, i know he was a ruthless bastard, yes, i know he had people murdered for nothing. but let us not forget that he did have a vision of DR as a great power (talk about the illusion de grandeur...) and he followed it.
He was a military man trained to think and act like a Marine. He took care of business the way he was taught. Some people say he developed the country because there was nothing, but there are many examples of dictators in other countries that didn't do much during their reign. Even in Dominican history we had Hereaux, who did nothing that truly impacted the country.

dv8 said:
dang. it is like talking about communism in poland in the 50s and the 60s. yes, there was no freedom to tell a political joke. but there was freedom to walk the streets at night safely and the freedom not to lock your doors. yes, normal people were scared of the police but so were the criminals who were relentlessly pursued. with all the bad, there was also lots of good.
The problem with the post-Trujillo years is that plenty of the good things were eliminated in the fervor to rid the country from Trujillismo. The order in the traffic, the very high and strict architectural, engineering, and urban planning; the cleanliness and good manners, the patriotism, all of that went out the window in the name of freedom. The results are visible for all to see.
 

dv8

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Sep 27, 2006
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thanks NALs, for all the corrections and comments. i remember seeing big spreads in el caribe about the past of SD, construction of the roads, bridges and so on. it was about both trujillo's times and the 60s so it looks like i mixed them together, thinking that churchil was done before 1961.
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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Trujillo murdered 100,s",Thousands, Who knows?
But the numbers pale when you compare them with the ten's of thousands killed after his murder, by common criminals, drug cartels, and other "Undesirables".
When I first came here in 1986, Doctor Balaguer was Top Dog.
No one here would dream of harming, let along killing a "Tourista", or "Expat" resident!
They would be "GONE" in days if they did, so they DIDN'T!
"Responsibility" was not choosen, it was "ENFORCED"!!!
I walked the darkest streets at 3 am, "No Problema"!
US President Harry S. Truman, ordered two nuclear bombs dropped on Japanese cities, killing over 100,000 then, and more over many years from the radiation.
"Terrible"!
Or was it?
It ENDED World War Two!
If the allies had invaded the Japanese homeland, estimates are over 1 million Japanese civilians killed!
Sacrifice 100,000 to "save" a Million???
The former Soviet Union held dozens of countries, and their citizens in their "IRON FIST"!
Countries that for various reasons, some a thousand years old,hated each other, and would have made war on each other, DIDN'T because "Russia" would not allow that to happen!
The Fall of the Soviet Union, allowed for the rise of Nationalism, and wars.
Can you spell "Ethnic Cleansing"???
So "shove" your "PC" platitudes,just ask the families of those killed by ethnic cleansing, if they would rather be DEAD, or "RED"!
I mourn the deaths of those who die for any reason!
Some of them, "Not-So-Much", but I have empathy with their family and friends who will miss them.
Sometimes, you have to do "Bad Things" to have "Good Results"!
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mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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Duvalier is facing the court now in Haiti.. and he said that when he came back, he found a mess. And he asked " What have you done with my country?" Not that Haiti ever had the sort of infrastructure that Trujillo built. But the crime rate was close to zero with the simple expedient that the prisoners were not fed by the state.

Dictatorships are very orderly.

Still, it is hard to account for the incredibly dirty streets or the messy bathrooms in Blue Mall except that these are perhaps people who are not trained to pick up after themselves
 

the gorgon

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Sep 16, 2010
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Duvalier is facing the court now in Haiti.. and he said that when he came back, he found a mess. And he asked " What have you done with my country?" Not that Haiti ever had the sort of infrastructure that Trujillo built. But the crime rate was close to zero with the simple expedient that the prisoners were not fed by the state.

Dictatorships are very orderly.

Still, it is hard to account for the incredibly dirty streets or the messy bathrooms in Blue Mall except that these are perhaps people who are not trained to pick up after themselves

very interesting thought, MA. when El Jefe was here, he made them clean up after themselves. now that he is gone, they do not know how to.
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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My burning question since I first set "feets" here in 1986 has been, "Do Dominicans know how to be "Civilized" but choose not to, or are they just ignorant of how to act like civilized human beings???
Some of the "Stupid Dominican tricks" they perform make one ask,
"Don't they have any idea "WTF" they are doing?
Many of the "Tricks" they perform,put them, their children, or innocent bystanders in mortal danger!
Is it, Ignorance, Stupidity, Arrogance,Habit, Drugs & Alcohol,or a mixture of "All-The-Above"????
You decide, I sure as hell can't!
But, I DO have my suspicions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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the gorgon

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Sep 16, 2010
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My burning question since I first set "feets" here in 1986 has been, "Do Dominicans know how to be "Civilized" but choose not to, or are they just ignorant of how to act like civilized human beings???
Some of the "Stupid Dominican tricks" they perform make one ask,
"Don't they have any idea "WTF" they are doing?
Many of the "Tricks" they perform,put them, their children, or innocent bystanders in mortal danger!
Is it, Ignorance, Stupidity, Arrogance,Habit, Drugs & Alcohol,or a mixture of "All-The-Above"????
You decide, I sure as hell can't!
But, I DO have my suspicions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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tough question, CC. just last week, i watched a guy ride a motorcycle through a crowd of people, on the SIDEWALK!! people had to be scurrying just to get out of his way. i still cannot wrap my head around it. how can that be explained?