Construction Buffs - familiar with this??

SKing

Silver
Nov 22, 2007
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Hello everyone,

Been a while visiting on DR1. I am here right now in NYC working. Trying to get this solar bought by August. After talking to a couple of Santiago Real Estate personnel, the loan officer at my bank (Asociacion Cibao), and the Dominican family that I rent a room from in NYC, the consensus has been BUILD...don't BUY. I am both excited and terrified.
I have been notified of a new building technique by a real estate friend of mine and a maestro that apparently saves some money on construction and is being used by some maestros in Santiago, one who just finished building an apartment building with this method. Anyway, I am posting a link that one sent to me so that I could get familiar with it and see if I would like to build this way.
As always, I am checking with you guys to see if anyone is familiar with this or if its all a crock of mierda.

Formaletas | Proceso de construccion con formaletas de aluminio

I consulted Chip to see what today's going rates are for building and he told me between
20,000rd-22,000rd/m2, Victor's dad who is in this business told me about 18,000-19,500rd/m2 and this new "process" has been quoted to me as approximately 15,000rd/m2 or less.
Has anyone built lately to give me a little perspective?
I am not using my ex (Victor's dad) because we have a good relationship and I'm very particular and don't want to mix business with, well, not pleasure but....."getting alongness" just like I wouldn't buy a car from a friend.
He will be doing the checking for me though once building commences, as well as my close real estate friend.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I have a house plan but I think it is too big and I want to finish the house in a year and a half, I will only have $8,000 per month to go towards the construction so I'm trying to find another that I like that is smaller in size.

Thanks again,
SHALENA
 

hammerdown

Bronze
Apr 29, 2005
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Shalena, that technique has been here for a few years. A developer, before he was murdered, was building with this technique in Cabarete. He was telling me its WAY faster than building with blocks and if the contractor is any good you can build a floor every 3-4 days. (this being a 4 floor, 4 units per floor building). If you are in Cabarete you can see the buildings, not finished, by the bomba Texaco. They are the green ones.

The only problem, is that not many contractors are experienced. Possibly, and hopefully in your case, things have changed. IMO it is the way to build your house.
 

SKing

Silver
Nov 22, 2007
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Thanks so much. My real estate friend is taking me by the apartment buildings in Santiago built with this method. I just wanted to see if anyone else had heard of it because my trust factor has gone down a lot and I don't want to throw $150,000 at a construction that ends up being a piece of crap. I am working 7 days a week in NYC when I am here and it will be the house built out of my blood, sweat, and tears....literally.
Do you know of ay contractors experienced in that in Santiago? Of course, I'm being introduced to the one that built the apartments but I would like to "interview" 3 or 4 if possible. Getting the solar in August and then hope to start January 2014.

SHALENA
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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Formaletas are a good system and they are fast. However there are a couple of issues:

1. You can't use a maestro(because he doesn't own the forms) but will need to have a contractor do it for you and it will be more than RD20k per m2 if not more because of his chiripa.

2. Formaletas come in standardized sizes, so no tweeking your house plans allowed. This also requires extra coordination between the architect and contractor which means you will be charged more and not get exactly what you want.

Formaletas are great for commercial and some homebuilders but bad for custom built homes.

To save money one can go with paneles aligerados or a Plyrock/sheetrock system.
 

janlindy

Active member
Mar 8, 2011
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I will be watching your post and the replies - as we will begin the process of building sometime this fall. Land has been purchased and am currently looking at simple building plans, so any ideas are always helpful.
 

Castellamonte

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Mar 3, 2005
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www.villa-castellamonte.com
I was considering this building technique for an office I was going to build but because the forms are a "standard size" and I couldn't tweak them I decided not to do it. The apartments I saw being built like this were in the La Union area near Puerto Plata. They went up extremely quickly and are, for all intents and purposes, the same as poured concrete walls so they are exceptionally strong.
 

dv8

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Sep 27, 2006
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shalena, i am not a construction specialist so forgive me if my post if not what you were looking for...

i think it is always best to go with simple and local. and here in DR that means cement blocks and traditional methods. one thing is the cost of materials and another thing, as chip mentioned, is the cost of construction. with normal blocks you could get virtually anyone to to the job, and do the job well and fast. if you'd have to look at hiring special team to do the job you are looking at higher costs.

in addition, with cement blocks you can purchase majority of the materials at the beginning of the construction and store them on the spot. you could stop the construction at nearly every point of the way whenever the money runs short. one floor, half the floor, whatever. just stacking the blocks together and putting up a raw building is a fairly speedy process. you can then halt the work until you have money to do floors, windows, kitchen, bathrooms and so on.

PM me in case you'd like to consult an architect. my SIL runs her own company here in POP. will travel if needed.
 

dv8

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Sep 27, 2006
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yes, of course, the roof or the floor has to be done in one go. but blocks? heck, you could put one a day. it does not matter much.

plus, i think i saw on the pictures that all cables and pipes go between the aluminium blocks? not sure how would you go about fixing anything. with cement blocks you can dig in, break, rewire, redo the plumbing, anything that takes your fancy.
 

JohnnyBoy

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Jun 17, 2012
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I would be very careful of who the maestro is on that project. By the time you rent the forms and given the Dominican building style I can see that become an expensive project. That style seems to work better on a large project it may not be cost effective on just one unit
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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I don't know how you the owner could monitor it, but the big problem with poured walls is that they have to be vibrated so there isn't any honeycomb or holes in the walls when the forms are removed. Yes such can be filled with concrete, but it leaves a very weakened structure.
Der Fish

Concrete acts primarily as the compressive load bearing component and the steel as the tension component, hence the fact that there may be small voids does not mean the structure has been compromised.

As far as vibrating the mixture that is no bid deal either.
 

SKing

Silver
Nov 22, 2007
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Also another question.
If the prices are between 18,000-22,000 per M2 are they counting just the structure or does this include windows, door, railings, etc?
Has anyone thats built negotiated a lower price in lieu of buying their own furnishings (and when I say furnishings, I mean, windows, doors, knobs, cabinets, etc).
Thanks again

SHALENA
 

bayaguanaman

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Oct 22, 2009
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I used this system in the serviced apartment hotel in the venetian development, Macao, China. Progress was rapid, however the Achilles Heel was the fact nothing could be poured on the next level until the MEP installation was installed and signed off by the inspector. A bit similar to tunnel forming hotels, the key to success is the plumber and electrician, once they have the system understood, it is fast. Have a look at www.mfeformwork.com ( If I new how to add fotos I would easily do so ...help).

Also, be careful that you agree in advance the costs associated in holing the panels ( where you require pipe or conduits to pass through a wall or roof surface), the panel supplier could sting you for the cost of the panel repair or replacement !!!!! This doesn't happen in the back boxes for lighting and wall sockets / switches as these can be foam filled or wrapped in duct tape to prevent the concrete entering these and the conduits (heaven forbid this to happen) then cleaned out immediately the wall / roof forms are released. Down side, you need to be sure of your required layout as changes in electrical routing are difficult enough but a nightmare using this system. Not impossible but timely and therefore time = $$$$$$$$.
 
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Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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My years of experience here, including large construction projects, like CEDIMAT, have taught me that it is ALWAYS better to stick to "Traditional" Dominican construction methods.
They KNOW how to build cement block structures.
Get out of their "Comfort Zone", and they always fail!
Here is another thing I have learned, ALWAYS have a slanted roof, NOT a flat roof!
Flat roofs will always leak, no matter how, or how many times, you try to "seal" them.
Water runs OFF a slanted roof, NOT Through It!!!
AND, I would BUY, Not Build!
That way you know what you will be getting.
And even more important, how MUCH you will be paying!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
And, "YES", I DO Know EVERYTHING!!!!!
 

SKing

Silver
Nov 22, 2007
3,750
183
63
My years of experience here, including large construction projects, like CEDIMAT, have taught me that it is ALWAYS better to stick to "Traditional" Dominican construction methods.
They KNOW how to build cement block structures.
Get out of their "Comfort Zone", and they always fail!
Here is another thing I have learned, ALWAYS have a slanted roof, NOT a flat roof!
Flat roofs will always leak, no matter how, or how many times, you try to "seal" them.
Water runs OFF a slanted roof, NOT Through It!!!
AND, I would BUY, Not Build!
That way you know what you will be getting.
And even more important, how MUCH you will be paying!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
And, "YES", I DO Know EVERYTHING!!!!!

Criss,
I have talked to the bank. If I buy (which if you rmeember I absolutely LOVE the house I'm in now), the interest rates are variable and could go up and down. I could end up paying 2-3x the actual worth of the house. if I thought that I wouldn't get screwed with the interest, I would definitely buy the house I'm renting. This building stuff is a headache, especially to a woman.
Have any pointers or tips for me to to buy where I wouldn't be paying back $300,000-$400,000 for a $150,000 house?

SHALENA
 

SKing

Silver
Nov 22, 2007
3,750
183
63
In the USA if your payments are $800.00 a month for example you can pay whatever you wish over and above that toward the interest so if you have $8000 to devote to housing do it that way. Make the mortgage and then pay it off in 4 or 5 years that way.
Der Fish

I thought about that but the problem is, I don't want to die LOL. I will have the $8,000 per month by staying here in NYC and working 2 jobs while I am here going back home to santiago every 2 months for a week or two and I do not want to do that for 4-5 years. And if I would do it for the 2 then why not have my own house built without paying the interest.
Basically, if I'm going to work like a dog, I want every cent of my money to go to the house, not interest. But if I were to buy the current house, I could potentially pay it off in 10 years without working like a donkey and actually enjoy it but that is not guaranteed due to the fluctuation every year with the interest rate.
Which someone told me they have always seen go UP, never DOWN.
:-(

SHALENA
 

Criss Colon

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
21,843
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Actually, interest rates on homes HAS gone down in the last few years.
No way to predict the future.
Since you have "Green Backs" you should be OK, since the peso will devalue against the US dollar.
Excepting when "Hipolito" drove the Peso to 56 to 1, later went back to 26 to 1 with "Leonel", I have only seen a slow but steady devaluation of the peso over the last 28 years.
It was 3 to 1 when I came in 1986!
"BUY IT!"
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
If you MUST build, hire chip to be your "On Site" manager.
He has a good track record.
He "HAS" to be honest, or GOD will "Smite Him Down"!
 

dv8

Gold
Sep 27, 2006
31,266
363
0
Also another question.
If the prices are between 18,000-22,000 per M2 are they counting just the structure or does this include windows, door, railings, etc?
Has anyone thats built negotiated a lower price in lieu of buying their own furnishings (and when I say furnishings, I mean, windows, doors, knobs, cabinets, etc).

this, i think, will depend on the finish you choose. if this price includes the finishing then it will be cheap versions and trust me, there are some things you do not want to skip on. you will be better on using good wood (oak, mahogany) because bad wood really rots very fast given the humidity, temperature and dominican maids :)
you'd want a good, strong doors to slow down or discourage the robbers (because, of course, you will not stop them) and to withstand the weather. you will need good window frames because the bad ones leak and cause the paint to peel off and mould to settle in.

if you want to save on some costs do maybe slightly cheaper floor tiles. on the other hand you are likely to live with them forever so why not do something you really like. maybe some fixtures like sinks, shower heads, toilets and so on could be your saving option?