Visas for Haitian Students Suspended for 90 Days

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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I guess the Haitians shouldn't have started the Trade War, huh?

Looks like they didn't think things through.

Maybe that's one reason they are in their current condition.
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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it takes two to make a war...

But the DR is already Not renewing the cedulas or rest of the Haitians who are here // this is just going to bring the issue to the surface.

and these students pay $120 million US to go to University here... they are the children of the middle class .. so I think that this one is really going to escalate the "war"

Who is going to win? Well, who has more to lose?

Haiti is the only country with whom the DR has a positive balance of trade. I suspect that everything that they get from the DR, they can get elsewhere or start to make themselves.

According to the Haitian press.. and who knows WHAT is the truth? All they were asking for was for their techniction to certify the poultry producers

now, since the DR WENT through that already.. at the first outbreak.. and since then the Haitians asked that the DR be certified by the OIE in Geneva.. which they cannot due since there is still cock fighting.. I guess the chicken farmers just called BS to that run around.

As I have said one, twice,, five or six times.. I think that the issue is taxes.. which the Haitians wish to collect and cann not because of the way the market is built and run on the DR side of the border.

But now, the issue is going to start focusing on the treatment of the Haitians who are here as well and the DR never comes out well in the international press on this issue,.
 

windeguy

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Jul 10, 2004
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Does the DR care what the "international press" says about Haitians in the DR? From what I have seen, they care very, very little.
 

GWOZOZO

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http://espacinsular.org

The Dominican Chancellery has suspended the renewal of visas for Haitians students studying in the Dominican Republic for 90 days

There are an estimated 12,000 Haitian students in the DR who bring into the DR an estimated $120 million US per year

El Caribe ? Los haitianos son cada vez m?s en las universidades

This is great news...DR should suspend their visa forever.

I have been discussing the current trade noise with fellow Haitians and i have yet to hear one Haitian who is not in support of Haiti's stance. The refrain is always "about time".

DR has been enabling Haitian underperformance for a long time....of course to the benefit of DR businesses..if not DR people.

This is exactly what haiti needs at this time....to be forced to produce.

That $120 million US spent by these students would be better spent in english language countries as to make the middle class more fluent in the world's business language.

It would also provide opportunities for Haitian educators from the diaspora to invest in Haiti's private education system preferably in partnership with US colleges and universities.

This is great news for Haiti.
 
Aug 21, 2007
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Does the DR care what the "international press" says about Haitians in the DR? From what I have seen, they care very, very little.

They have resisted, Mike. However IGO's (International Governmental Organizations) have been calling the DR on the carpet in hearings, even challenging them in international court. On some level, the countries need to work this out if either of them wants continued financial support from these organizations, including the World Bank.

Lindsey
 

windeguy

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Jul 10, 2004
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Understood Lindsey. But is there really going to be a monetary penalty brought to bare on the DR for cancelling Haitian visas? That of course would be the "money walks" part of the equation.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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it takes two to make a war...



Nah! It only takes one to Tango a solo to the beat of bullets...



But the DR is already Not renewing the cedulas or rest of the Haitians who are here // this is just going to bring the issue to the surface.

Not true! The DR is NOT renewing the Cedulas of Haitians that obtained them via frauds. As with fake or doctored documents, plenty of times with assistance of inside people at the JCE.

Haitians with legitimate Cedulas have no problems renewing theirs. All they need is to have their student residency in order or renewed as well.



and these students pay $120 million US to go to University here... they are the children of the middle class .. so I think that this one is really going to escalate the "war"

They are just a very small fraction of the student body in the DR. They pay the same as any Dominicans for their credits, unlike all other foreigner which contribute far more when paying as non-nationals for the same credits.



Who is going to win? Well, who has more to lose?



It's not about who wins or who loses. It's about ORDER where DISORDER was forever be dealt with.

If we had to consider continuity, Haitian students will be the biggest losers in any such lopsided event.



Haiti is the only country with whom the DR has a positive balance of trade. I suspect that everything that they get from the DR, they can get elsewhere or start to make themselves.



This is somewhat untrue, if you consider that we also trade with other countries with which our trade balance is in our favor, but the amounts and value of trade are not even in the same chart as with Haiti.

Everything Haiti gets from the DR they can get elsewhere, but it won't be as cheap. Not even close.
It will erode the purchase power of the masses and create a new crisis for the already troubled Haitian currency and their non-existent Haitian Dollars.



According to the Haitian press.. and who knows WHAT is the truth? All they were asking for was for their techniction to certify the poultry producers

now, since the DR WENT through that already.. at the first outbreak.. and since then the Haitians asked that the DR be certified by the OIE in Geneva.. which they cannot due since there is still cock fighting.. I guess the chicken farmers just called BS to that run around.

Trade agreements are regulated in this side of the world via the WHO when it comes to certifying a country free of certain dangerous virus. Haiti just admitted they used the certification scheme atop scheme to halt all imports of chicken and eggs based on a lie, to create a competitive market for their nationals producers in a way they can compete with DR or other imported gods. The thing is, they needed to make the DR eggs way more expensive than theirs and the some, in order to have a competitive edge (if that can be ever achieve in a place like Haiti).

This is nothing more than a power move by interested sectors within the Haitian elite to control once again the internal supply markets. Make bundles of cash whilst the vast majority of the population eats virtually sh*t.



As I have said one, twice,, five or six times.. I think that the issue is taxes.. which the Haitians wish to collect and cann not because of the way the market is built and run on the DR side of the border.


Never was, never will be. It was about control. Those that control the flow, control the country. Haiti lives and dies by the stomach.



But now, the issue is going to start focusing on the treatment of the Haitians who are here as well and the DR never comes out well in the international press on this issue,.


The quake is long past gone from the memory of most people. Most foreigners today blame Haitians for being in the hole they are.

The DR has never even tried to spin a good vibe about Haitians in the country or play the opinion courts in the media.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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This is great news...DR should suspend their visa forever.

I have been discussing the current trade noise with fellow Haitians and i have yet to hear one Haitian who is not in support of Haiti's stance. The refrain is always "about time".

DR has been enabling Haitian underperformance for a long time....of course to the benefit of DR businesses..if not DR people.

Why else would they do it any other way?



This is exactly what haiti needs at this time....to be forced to produce.


In that part we agree 100%



That $120 million US spent by these students would be better spent in english language countries as to make the middle class more fluent in the world's business language.


Problem is that those same students are going to the DR because they don't make the "cut" to get a visitor visa to any other country they could get that type of education, let alone a student visa and residency.


It will only hurt them for along time, not help them at all.


It would also provide opportunities for Haitian educators from the diaspora to invest in Haiti's private education system preferably in partnership with US colleges and universities.

This is great news for Haiti.

That's a real positive "if" and a big "IF" whilst at it, that was to happen. Taking under consideration the lack of support the Diaspora of Haitians in other countries have gotten historically, I doubt that will happen in our life times. But if it does, it would be a groundbreaking thing!

The odds of that are the same as me hitting the Power Ball three times in a row in the same month with the same numbers, if that's to happen in the next 40 years. ( I gave myself a lifespan of +/- 90 years when I said in our life times).
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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They have resisted, Mike. However IGO's (International Governmental Organizations) have been calling the DR on the carpet in hearings, even challenging them in international court. On some level, the countries need to work this out if either of them wants continued financial support from these organizations, including the World Bank.

Lindsey

That will be the Day the DR drops accepting any financial aid or loans from those same institutions that demand such thing in lieu of that same assistance being provided.

No international body can tell a democratically country how their constitution and laws should reflect citizenship by birth in their land. It just won't happen! The cases up to now, have been on the merits of corrupted officials providing fraudulent documents to the parents in the first place, to have obtained the kids' BC in the first place. The same ones that later got revoked when found to be unsupported by any legit data or documentation by the JCE.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Understood Lindsey. But is there really going to be a monetary penalty brought to bare on the DR for cancelling Haitian visas? That of course would be the "money walks" part of the equation.




LOL!! Can pigs fly?

That would open Pandora's box when it comes to immigration policies today in force by countries like the U.S., France, Canada, U.K., etc...
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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And just so you understand what the main article as posted on the OP says and means:


The Chancery just "paused" the renewal process for those type of residencies for 90 days, which means that if they had a residency that expired within that time, the person could still use it as it was in good standing until those 90 days are done with and thy file their renewal documents after that.


Just like Cedulas that expired on their date were kept "vingentes" until a new ID was issued later.
 

GWOZOZO

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Dec 7, 2011
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Problem is that those same students are going to the DR because they don't make the "cut" to get a visitor visa to any other country they could get that type of education, let alone a student visa and residency.


It will only hurt them for along time, not help them at all.




That's a real positive "if" and a big "IF" whilst at it, that was to happen. Taking under consideration the lack of support the Diaspora of Haitians in other countries have gotten historically, I doubt that will happen in our life times. But if it does, it would be a groundbreaking thing!

The odds of that are the same as me hitting the Power Ball three times in a row in the same month with the same numbers, if that's to happen in the next 40 years. ( I gave myself a lifespan of +/- 90 years when I said in our life times).


Nonsense.......there are plenty of english speaking countries where we could spread these 12000 around......they simply need to not all focus on USA and Canada.

In the long run Haiti will simply have to increase the number of higher education facilities.

Besides those going to DR are not the best and brightest...most would better learn a trade and keep the money in Haiti.


As for others investing...as long as there is a demand and people willing to pay.....haiti's private sector or foreigners will invest.

Haiti needs to use its membership in the african union for joint project with countries such as South Africa and others.

Lifetime or not.....change comes with pain........one thing is sure...haiti will not advance tied up to DR.
 

GWOZOZO

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Dec 7, 2011
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The International should stay clear of this dispute and not dictate or persuade dominicans to accept haitians.

DR should stand its ground.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Nonsense.......there are plenty of english speaking countries where we could spread these 12000 around......they simply need to not all focus on USA and Canada.

In the long run Haiti will simply have to increase the number of higher education facilities.

If that was the case and those same Haitian families could send them to the places you have yet to list would accept them as resident students for their entire careers + paying the same as local residents, I think they would have been already there. No?

Haiti needs higher education facilities, that's true. But given it can't even run properly with a basic budget the ones it already has operating, what gives you the idea that this would change anytime soon?



Besides those going to DR are not the best and brightest...


The best and brightest they can't be all, since the ones coming to the DR are doing so because their families can pay the financial burden, not based on academic achievements or brightness! But, even George nukulear Bush got an education enough to allow him to be the POTUS!


most would better learn a trade and keep the money in Haiti.

The problem for many of these young folks is that they graduate in the DR, then there's nothing waiting for them back home for careers. A lot stay and make their lives in the DR and the rest use their minty diplomas to gain access to Canada's and France's job sectors they need people for. About 6 in 10 Haitian ladies that take the medical field in the DR, carry on to become RN's in the U.S. and Canada directly from Haiti. Half of those continue their equivalency studies and advanced their original careers as Doctors there. In Canada, the gov pays for their education in parts where French speaking family doctors and practitioners are scarce. The DR is only a stepping stone for a lot of these Haitian students.




As for others investing...as long as there is a demand and people willing to pay.....haiti's private sector or foreigners will invest.

The private sector is moot in Haiti and development. Foreign investors arrive with high hopes and dreams, willing to work hard to make Haiti a good place. The majority is bogged down by the gov's corruption and lack of security in the way titles, contracts and other legal important stuff is handled politically and not by the justice system.

Dominicans have flourished in large endeavors in Haiti because they too are mired by corruption and understand the greasing of elbows and political angle of biz at large.




Haiti needs to use its membership in the african union for joint project with countries such as South Africa and others.


It can use it, but half a world away won't get that many willing partners to take the trip of chance. Haiti has an image problem, even to their African friends.



Lifetime or not.....change comes with pain........one thing is sure...haiti will not advance tied up to DR.


Actually, if Haiti had been "tied-up" to the DR, it would have been in much better shape today. Maybe in better shape than DR.

For Haiti to achieve great steps in mere months, all it has to do is adopt the DR's legal, political, economic and judicial system, including the constitution. Just replacing DR with Haiti here and there, plus some other minor changes to reflect realities now impossible to dismiss in Haiti, Haiti would jump about 40 years ahead of its present time.

Drop French as second language at schools, replacing it with English since elementary all they up to college. Let the population enrich itself with the language everyone born and living there speaks: Haitian Kreyol. Let French be selective in HS and then on.

Since it adopts the DR political system, the President elected is the person in charge until the next election. Saves the noon-ending rite of chairs common to Haiti till now. Extend the elections to be every 6 years from the actual 4.

Only those little steps would catapult Haiti into modernity. From there it can work it out little by little.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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The International should stay clear of this dispute and not dictate or persuade dominicans to accept haitians.

DR should stand its ground.

If Dominican politicians had half the brain those in the GOP tea party's anti-immigrant loop have, the DR would have had in place a guest worker program since 27th Feb 1844...

You don't turn the nose to cheap labor! Ever! That's a capital crime in the rules of capitalistic democracies.

As far as the international angle? Nobody will pick that stick up to call the D.R. into line. If they pick it up, it opens their own immigration problems to the same community to deal with as well.

It's a catch-22 thing. Speak loud whilst taking steps back at the same time. That's the only thing the international community will be willing to take on the D.R. / Haiti issues.
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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ok a couple of points.. first this is the suspension of visas...not of cedulas... the suspension of ceduals is basically across the board and is simply being done for all Haitians.. this via information from Edwin Pariaison, and via a friend of mine who is married to a Swiss whose papers were done by Guzman... they are just NOT renewing the cedulas of Haitians.. it is a very small number of people...,

Second, I have read in a number of places that Haiti is the only nation where the balance of trade is in favor of the DR. All the others .. and basically that is the US.. everywhere else the DR is in deficit.

You say that Haitians pay the same prices at Universities as Dominicans do? Not the same as other foreigners? Why on earth would that be so?

Your suggestions on their government may be useful but they are not going to change from Parliamentary to Presidential ... and it takes 10 years to amend their Constitution.. and they are not gong to abandon French which has been their language of record for 100 years.

How about having the border market on two sides of the border, which is what they want?
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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it takes two to make a war...
Maybe.

But only ONE to start one...

Did the Haitian braintrust actually think their boycott of poultry & eggs would go without escalation?

If so, they are idiots.

And THAT is then core of the problem.