We always hear in the Dominican media talk about the Haitianazacion de la Rep. Dom. Well, I would like to turn the table an discuss the Dominicanisation of Haiti and Haitians. One can not circulate through the main arteries of Port-au-Prince/Petionville without the resonate sound "bing bing bing bing" of bachata music shelling out haut-parleurs. Driving down the Avenues, Bourdon, it's hard to miss billboards of Bachata Artist playing at the many Latino venues around town. Driving from la ville to Petionville it is hard to miss El Presidente biere signs. Domincan flags are wrapped around the marchandes head to protect/ hold their rolos from moving as she sells pollo frito to the clients craving for poul panyol byen fet. The sounds of dominican vernacular Po' ta bien..'ta bien y tu? .. Dominican drivers attempting to speak kreyol/french but converts to Spanish as many of his passengers speak Spanish. The sound of relief "Ay gracia' tu habla' e'panol." The Dominican salons packed with las morenas chatting about their estad?a en Saint Domingue. Dominican Spanish, kreyol interchangeably used as mode of communication without a moment of lack of comprehension. Let's not mention the cafes which are dominated by fanm panyol who if lucky finds a pendej! who confesses her to retire from the oldest profession in the world because she's a muchacha buena. Dominican culture/language has dominicanized many Haitians.
- Thread starter Quisqueya
- Start date
Dominicanisation of Haiti/Haitians
Dominicanization is not exclusive of Haitians. Just read how all these dr1er expats carry on. Estan dominicanizados y muchos no lo saben. Y ques lo que?
I think Ouanaminthe is the most Dominicanized place in Haitian soil at the moment, for its obvious vicinity with Dajabon as well as the businesses established there. I always get a kick when a random Haitian shouts a "carajo" or "co?o".
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Kiskeya...you are overeaching with that one.
I have seen none of these things you are talking about.
What I see is the AMERICANIZATION of Haiti and Haitians.
Hip Hop......Techno...mixed with haitian rythms.
Usage of english or english terms......wassup ma nukka
Sagging pants...etc
What say you Mountainannie??
I have seen none of these things you are talking about.
What I see is the AMERICANIZATION of Haiti and Haitians.
Hip Hop......Techno...mixed with haitian rythms.
Usage of english or english terms......wassup ma nukka
Sagging pants...etc
What say you Mountainannie??
Well I do not travel to Haiti very often. I am, alas, paid to do so. Even during the earthquake, no one contacted me and asked me to go over. (Not that I would have been able to stand it, I am too emotional, too female, but it would have been nice to be asked but I guess that even Christian Science Monitor does not read IPS. I did call my friend Michael Diebert and get him to come, met him at the airport, got him a ride,
I did get a call from John Barnett who is a friend of friend whom NPR was sending over who offered to buy me dinner and asked where everyone was assembling???????
ok.. enuf about me.. Not that I would not love to go to Ptionville.. on a very regular basis .. and perhaps in a few years when the Amex debt is paid.. I will be able to.. so,. I cannot speak to what is going on in Haiti.
The border is its own world. That area I know pretty well. And LT which has its own very well established Haitian community of around 5000 and growing.
So here is what I have observed. Haitians are Haitians. Except for the ones who are born here .. the Haitian Domnicans who have never known life in Haiti.. those.. the ones who flocked to Sonie Pierre and flight for their right for DOMINICAN papers.. THEY are DOMINICANIZED. They ARE DOMINICANS. They have no alligieance whatsoever to Haiti. They consider their roots in Haiti the same way that Scots Americans get together and have a gathering of the clans and maybe learn to play a bagpitpe and dance a fling. But they are Dominicans.
Then there are many others, the bulk of the ones who are here. Who are Haitians. They just work here. They are migrant workers. They usually have a wife and family in Haiti.
As for the Border.. Yes, the towns of Wanamet, and Anse a Pitres you can get by completely in Spanish. But they are Completely HAITIAN. Absolutely Haiti. Belledaire.. oh, for a moountain home in Belledaire.. no Dominicans ever cross there.. it is totally Haitian.
As for PauP and America... well, Kompa is Kompa.. sure, Richard Morse has Ram and there is the Diaspora a HUGE Haitian diaspora in the US which sends home a lot of money
So I got a copy of this group in a blank CD thrown into my car by one of the Haitians in Las Terrenas
ZENGLEN - NOU G'ON PWOBL?M (dj-Excellent) - YouTube
sounds pretty PURE HAITIAN to me
as far as REGGETON is concerned
it came outta ATTICA SING SING ETC SO
yeah, that would be AMERIKA
I did get a call from John Barnett who is a friend of friend whom NPR was sending over who offered to buy me dinner and asked where everyone was assembling???????
ok.. enuf about me.. Not that I would not love to go to Ptionville.. on a very regular basis .. and perhaps in a few years when the Amex debt is paid.. I will be able to.. so,. I cannot speak to what is going on in Haiti.
The border is its own world. That area I know pretty well. And LT which has its own very well established Haitian community of around 5000 and growing.
So here is what I have observed. Haitians are Haitians. Except for the ones who are born here .. the Haitian Domnicans who have never known life in Haiti.. those.. the ones who flocked to Sonie Pierre and flight for their right for DOMINICAN papers.. THEY are DOMINICANIZED. They ARE DOMINICANS. They have no alligieance whatsoever to Haiti. They consider their roots in Haiti the same way that Scots Americans get together and have a gathering of the clans and maybe learn to play a bagpitpe and dance a fling. But they are Dominicans.
Then there are many others, the bulk of the ones who are here. Who are Haitians. They just work here. They are migrant workers. They usually have a wife and family in Haiti.
As for the Border.. Yes, the towns of Wanamet, and Anse a Pitres you can get by completely in Spanish. But they are Completely HAITIAN. Absolutely Haiti. Belledaire.. oh, for a moountain home in Belledaire.. no Dominicans ever cross there.. it is totally Haitian.
As for PauP and America... well, Kompa is Kompa.. sure, Richard Morse has Ram and there is the Diaspora a HUGE Haitian diaspora in the US which sends home a lot of money
So I got a copy of this group in a blank CD thrown into my car by one of the Haitians in Las Terrenas
ZENGLEN - NOU G'ON PWOBL?M (dj-Excellent) - YouTube
sounds pretty PURE HAITIAN to me
as far as REGGETON is concerned
it came outta ATTICA SING SING ETC SO
yeah, that would be AMERIKA
gee, quisqueya, talking about communication? how about them paragraphs? (pot and kettle here, amirite?)
anyways: never been in haiti. i always wanted to go but "it's too dangerous", "no way" and so on. but haitians here in DR are pretty much dominicanized. they learn spanish really quickly and go on living their lives like most dominicans: brugal, bandera, bachata.
(pot and kettle here, amirite?)anyways: never been in haiti. i always wanted to go but "it's too dangerous", "no way" and so on. but haitians here in DR are pretty much dominicanized. they learn spanish really quickly and go on living their lives like most dominicans: brugal, bandera, bachata.
Haitians are very adaptable and have been so from colonial times. I read the black Jacobins and admired their resilience.
The proto-Dominicans who lived under the Haitian yoke had to learn french and perhaps creole, as a result of Spanish being suppressed as a language during the 22 years of Haitian occupation. I won't go into that, because it was discussed in another MountainAnnie post. Attempting to revise Dominican history to fit her own ends.
Because it's always about her, even if she says it ain't.
The Haitians who are born here, are still Haitians MA under the eyes of the law. If they don't want to integrate with their country it's their own fault in particular and activists in general.
We can't touch these people and show them the way back to PAP, because you and your friends in NPR will demonize every action we attempt to take. You don't even go to Haiti unless paid to do it, hilarious and outrages at the same time. Great comparison with the Scottish who had to arrive by traversing an ocean.
Good riddance Sonia P.
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The proto-Dominicans who lived under the Haitian yoke had to learn french and perhaps creole, as a result of Spanish being suppressed as a language during the 22 years of Haitian occupation. I won't go into that, because it was discussed in another MountainAnnie post. Attempting to revise Dominican history to fit her own ends.
Because it's always about her, even if she says it ain't.
The Haitians who are born here, are still Haitians MA under the eyes of the law. If they don't want to integrate with their country it's their own fault in particular and activists in general.
We can't touch these people and show them the way back to PAP, because you and your friends in NPR will demonize every action we attempt to take. You don't even go to Haiti unless paid to do it, hilarious and outrages at the same time. Great comparison with the Scottish who had to arrive by traversing an ocean.
Good riddance Sonia P.
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gee, quisqueya, talking about communication? how about them paragraphs?
DV8,
Desole, I was in a rush when I was writing this post and didn't even proof read. You've traveled to Colombia which is far more dangerous than Haiti. Haiti has that negative stigma but I can assure you that it's safe permitted you stay away from the barrios. I suggest going with a native that is in the same social status as you and I am sure it would not be your last.
Anyway, what I wanted to demonstrate in this thread how Haitians welcome things Dominicans. There is not a bad connotation of Dominican culture. Haitians despite the propaganda have a good perception of Dominicans. In Haiti, Dominicans are welcome and are well received. One can't deny the influence of Dominican culture with so many Haitians travelling to the DR and returning to Haiti.
Gwozozo,
American culture has influenced the world of course Haitians are no different, the not so good part (ghetto) of the American culture. Just go to any Haitian party and you are bound to hear merengue or bachata. Have you ever gone to a Dominican party and hear Kompas blasting?
Many have proven my point that haitianization of DR is never going to happen as Haitians integrate into the Dominican culture rather quickly and children born there are Dominicanized. There are also many mixed Haitians-Dominicans who are clueless to Haitian culture. In conclusion, what's the hoolah of haitianization in the DR? Does it have to do with something else.
Perhaps it's just that people aren't acustomed to listen kreyol ayisien being spoken so frequently. Regarding my own experience, I wasn't that much acquainted with it until the new inmigration wave post 2004, cuz' before that my only interaction with Haitians on previous years was when I went to buy school material/uniforms near the little Haiti zone of this city, and the people there are more Dominicanized than anything. And this is all the more significant, since my paternal and maternal ancestries come from Mao and Azua, respectively, which are close to the border, and in all the trips I made to the places (during the months of summer/winter vacation) I didn't get to see that much Haitians (one or two, if anything) and the ones I saw all were speaking the local vernacular of this country.
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Kiskeya
Haitians are a welcoming people and really have no prejudices or bad feelings against any nation.
At a haitian party you will also hear jamaican....trinidadian......cuban....american......and african music.
I have seen a few dominican iterpretation of haitian meringues on youtube.
Panama is the place where Haitian music is well known and enjoyed outside of the creole islands.
And no I have never been to a dominican party or had dominican food...the interest is not there.
Your close involvemnet with DR and dominicans may be making you see something that simply is not there.
On the bright side...you have finally addressed me as GWOZOZO...good for you....lol...lol
Of course it does. I am saddened too. I digress to a point regarding dominicanization/haitianization. When a macro-view is assumed we see that this phenomena is actually one of evolution, adaptation, and, as per Darwin, survival of species. Similar to the flightless cormorant's adaptation to diving into the ocean for food, Haitians have had to undergo great and varied adaptions. We understand that adaptation is not unique to the human species. Moreover, it is neither unique to Haitians or any other race, creed or color of human skin(we're all the same in this regard). What is characteristic, however, is that we relish the thought of cutting each others' wings off so as to mitigate each others' ability to survive. Like Darwin I am curious. Unlike Darwin, I am perplexed as to the answer to the question immediately in front of us. Maybe we just need to continue to evolve.
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I usually ignore your posts as I have no wish to get into a fight with you and you always seem to attack me personally rather than taking issue with something that I have said.
I certainly do not mean for my posts to be about me. I mean them to be about the subject at hand.
But perhaps I can formulate a civilaized discourse and you might, in turn, make an effort to address the issues that I address rather than just attacking me. Because, of course, your attacking me will not stop me from posting.
I was not "Attempting to revise Dominican history to fit her own ends." but rather to understand the roots of the hostility and gather more information about the times. Which I did. And let us be clear that it is "Dominican history, as it is taught" since we only learn what we are taught. Just as we Americans only learn about US involvement in Guatemala, Chile, El Salavador, Haiti, the DR, Iraq, etc, AS WE ARE taught... To understand history from an OTHER:S perspective is a useful thing.
Knowledge is a useful thing.
"The Haitians who are born here, are still Haitians MA under the eyes of the law" As I have stated before, any nation has a perfect right to decide who has rights of citizenship. I was only underlining the issue of stateless persons vis a vis the Haitian constitution and the growing issue with the Libra Rosada and how perhaps the international community could help.
I worked on designing a project for Haitians in LT to return to Haiti. There were more than 300 oersons registered in only six weeks and many more waiting. They are still registerd with the IOM which is seeking $2 million. I have turned this over to the IOM. They do not have a grant that will cover the request that these workmen wanted. They wanted $100 worth of tools to be able to go back to Haiti to earn their own livilihoods. They all agreed that they would be happier there. And they were ready to get on the bus with a bag of tools the next day.
I only speculatethat there is really no will for these young workers to leave as there will be work for them in developing Miches and that entire coast line. I have always done everything that I could to help Haitian RETURN to HAITI, not for them to press up agianst YOUR state. How else will the hotels on the coast of that penisula get built? Except by young Haitians who are willing to live on the sand with no facilites? They are capable of doing this. Just as they built Las Terrenas, Juan Dolio, and Punta Cana.
I VOLUNTEERED for five years with the NGO for the OAS and traveled up and down the border with them.
I wrote as a free lance journalist for IPS Elizabeth Eames Roebling | IPS Inter Press Service | News Agency | Journalism & Communication for Global Change, renting a car at my own expense, seeking out stories about your country. I did my best to listen to authentic voices and seek out stories that were remarkable. I never printed stories that were in any was defaming to the DR. Ocassionally my editor introduced facts into my copy. Over that I had no control.
I do not go to Haiti now because I simply cannot afford to do so. I am retired and on a fixed income. I overspent my budget on giving assistance to the Haitian community in LT after the earthquake and the two years following it because there were Haitians there who were showing the red hair signs of severe malnutrituion and I was personally unwilling to let them start to die of hunger while the tour buses were coming through to visit the village that they had built.
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Please note that NONE of the titles of the articles are mine.. TITLES are the purview of the editor
so you may not judge my work by the titles. Nor did I have a final say over the copy. I am credentialled with a photo ID from the IPS office at the United Nation as a permant stringer.. I am paid out of Uruguay. My work has been translated into Spanish, French, Dutch and Japanese. IPS covers the Global South and focuses on development issues. There are several stories that I wrote which are available only to paid subscibers.
My ariticles were stolen and translated and reprinted by both Clave Digital and Diario Libre. Stolen in that they did not pay IPS for their use. But they did, at least, credit me as the author.
so you may not judge my work by the titles. Nor did I have a final say over the copy. I am credentialled with a photo ID from the IPS office at the United Nation as a permant stringer.. I am paid out of Uruguay. My work has been translated into Spanish, French, Dutch and Japanese. IPS covers the Global South and focuses on development issues. There are several stories that I wrote which are available only to paid subscibers.
My ariticles were stolen and translated and reprinted by both Clave Digital and Diario Libre. Stolen in that they did not pay IPS for their use. But they did, at least, credit me as the author.
it is remarkable how quickly haitians learn spanish. many gringos have been here for years and they speak very little. but haitians seem to pick it up very fast. and it's not that they have no choice. quite often they work and live with other haitians so they could get by very little.
DV8,
I haven't met a compatriot that didn't know several words in Spanish. In the curriculum in Haiti, the methods applied to learn languages are very good. The Spanish language program emphasizes on Spanish from Spain. You can imagine the shock when one arrives to the border. It takes about 6 months to communicate and by a year one can hold a conversation without too much grammatical error although with an accent. I would say after 5 years depending on the person the accent is very minimal. I am talking from the experience of educated Haitians but I too find those with little schooling mastering the language really quick sometimes they sound better than the natives..How? je ne sais pas..
Tizozo,
The influence is there and by no means am I insinuating that we are losing our beautiful Haitian identity but it is clear to say how we've embraced them while on the other hand they do their best to reject our culture. I think it has to do with the misconception and fallacies embedded in their system regarding Haitians. I think it would be a good idea for them to learn kreyol especially those that what to do business with Haiti. I personally address Dominicans with Sakapfet or Koman'w ye? I usually get the perplexed expression with "como"? Then I kindly say oh that means "How are you?" in kreyol. Many would say ridiculous comments such as "how did you learn haitiano" which I would kindly say "desde la cuna".
In the states, I don't mingle with Dominicans that much as well"tu sais pourquoi" except for those I knew from the DR who mostly don't live in the enclaves of Dominicans and actually speak English very well. They, too, stay away from those type of Dominicans. Their gastronomy doesn't really attract me either, but I have to say they make some real good Pollo a la Brasa but the Peruvians got them beat on that. I do make conversation with them while ordering my sandwiches or the cleaning lady in my office or the fruit guy. They are nice people despite the frekan yo fe avek nou. I treat everyone with respect whether the cleaning toilets or with money to throw away. Mon cher, mwen pat realiser mwen rele'w sa non..se te yon faute de frappe..LOL..li pa rive ankor..mesi ..LOL
I have to agree with Quisqueya
Even in 2010 immediately after the disaster, bachata at the Jet Set disco in Petion-ville, at the roadside vendors in Lalue, Delmas etc... and blaring from some tap taps. Dominicanas on the Caribe tours bus heading to Petion-Ville, and yes, presidente beer everyyyyyyyyyywhere. Brugal in every restaurant and club.
On the flip side. I've never seen a Prestige or Barbancourt sign anywhere in the DR, let alone get some. Is it because Haitian businessmen are not looking to the DR as a market? is it obstruction? Barbancourt and Prestige are some of the best in the world. The gold medals and accolades are a testament to that.
Even in 2010 immediately after the disaster, bachata at the Jet Set disco in Petion-ville, at the roadside vendors in Lalue, Delmas etc... and blaring from some tap taps. Dominicanas on the Caribe tours bus heading to Petion-Ville, and yes, presidente beer everyyyyyyyyyywhere. Brugal in every restaurant and club.
On the flip side. I've never seen a Prestige or Barbancourt sign anywhere in the DR, let alone get some. Is it because Haitian businessmen are not looking to the DR as a market? is it obstruction? Barbancourt and Prestige are some of the best in the world. The gold medals and accolades are a testament to that.
gee, quisqueya, talking about communication? how about them paragraphs?
anyways: never been in haiti. i always wanted to go but "it's too dangerous", "no way" and so on. but haitians here in DR are pretty much dominicanized. they learn spanish really quickly and go on living their lives like most dominicans: brugal, bandera, bachata.
Haiti is dangerous? Compared to what country? Are you kidding me, bro?
You better read all the reports and compare DR to Haiti in terms of Crimes and see the results?
Haiti is a safe place compared to a a lot of countries in the caribbean.
We should organize a road trip to Haiti. For years I tried to, but no dominican would join me. "It's too dangerous", "there are vodoo and zombies there", blah, blah. All that said by people who had never actually been there. To those in DR who say "I've never been outside of DR, I need a visa", I tell them "You can go to Haiti", and they look at me like I'm crazy.
It's a natural and irrational aversion that won't change no matter what the facts are. It reminds me of some people in the US that actually think that people in Mexico ride donkeys and sit on street corners under their huge hats.
It's a natural and irrational aversion that won't change no matter what the facts are. It reminds me of some people in the US that actually think that people in Mexico ride donkeys and sit on street corners under their huge hats.
World traveler
I've traveled a great bit of the world, this is not my opinion; this is fact: Haiti is by far one the safest countries in the world. The per capita rate of crime, petty or violent is the lowest in the carribean basin. An again just my opinion, the best food in the carribean as well.
Haiti Among the Safest Destinations in the Americas -- PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti, Jan. 4, 2013 /PRNewswire/ --
I've traveled a great bit of the world, this is not my opinion; this is fact: Haiti is by far one the safest countries in the world. The per capita rate of crime, petty or violent is the lowest in the carribean basin. An again just my opinion, the best food in the carribean as well.
Haiti Among the Safest Destinations in the Americas -- PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti, Jan. 4, 2013 /PRNewswire/ --