Halcyon days & DR Investments

frank12

Gold
Sep 6, 2011
11,847
29
48
I have accumulated so much stuff over the years from people getting up and moving back home to either North America or Europe, that i am thinking about starting a flea market. Just take a second and think about what happens here every single month with foreign investments, and then think about how many people move down here, spend all their money, and then get desperate and try to sell everything as quickly as possible. Here are some everyday scenarios i've witnessed over the years:

1. North American & European couples move down here all the time. Somewhere down the road, the relationship turns sour, because, well, it's a Caribbean island where, fortunately or unfortunately (depending how you look at it), there are virtually no taboos, and no well defined "moral" lines that cannot, and will not be crossed. Once the relationship breaks up, people start looking for an exit plan, and then they're trying to sell everything and head back home.

2. Singles come down here on vacation everyday, fall in love, then go back home, maneuver and manipulate things in order to move down here--to what they think is paradise, only to soon discover--after some months--there is no such thing as paradise. Eventually, their relationship passes the "honeymoon" period, and then they're ready to go back home and lick their wounds. Before they leave, they're trying to sell everything.

3. People move to the DR all the time running from ex's, divorces, bad relationships, chemical addictions, mental problems...you name it. People move down here everyday running from something. They choose the DR for a plethora of reasons--convenience, location, easy visa requirements, weather, prices, etc...but then their problems catch up with them, and so do their bad habits & addictions--and if that isn't enough, their demons catch up as well...and before long, their soon running to the next place that they think is going to solve their problems and offer some kind of redemption. Before long, they're trying to sell everything they own in order to get out of here as fast as possible.

4. Look how many people involved in criminal activity move down to the DR. They get a temporary reprieve from the law and enjoy some halcyon days while on the run. But like everything, their past eventually catches up to them, and soon they're on the next plane either running or being deported. Sometimes, they got a few days of freedom in order to try and sell everything they got. I've had two neighbors (one in Sosua, one in Cabarete) who were both deported. It goes on nearly every month down here. People get desperate, and soon they need to get rid of everything, fast!

5. Look at how many people from North America & Europe come into fast, easy money from either inheritance, selling of a house or property, an insurance payout, a lottery win, etc. They move down here as fast as possible and throw their money trying to own a business/dream in a foreign country of which they know little about, and have no idea how things work here.

Sometimes through either bad luck, bad timing, bad investment, bad advice--or all of the above-- they throw all their money into a business/dream, and soon, they're trying to unload everything in order to try and recoup some of their losses. This happens every month here, and will continue to happen every month as long as people keep inheriting fast, easy money or "hitting" that big payday through some kind of insurance payout, inheritance, good fortunate, etc.

I got many more examples, but this is a good starting point in trying to understand how, if your patient, you can always find a good bargain in the DR from North Americans & Europeans trying to leave the island in a hurry, and go back home to lick their financial wounds and regroup before embarking on their next adventure.

Frank
 

LTSteve

Gold
Jul 9, 2010
5,449
23
38
Paradise doesn't come without a price. Paradise found and lost. Your stories would make a good book.

LTSteve
 
Aug 21, 2007
3,043
1,970
113
There are also those who came, who made it, and stayed. What and whom you see depends on the friends and associates you make in this country.
 

AlterEgo

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 9, 2009
23,097
6,247
113
South Coast
Here ya go WW

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/r0aoVkdeYqw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

william webster

Platinum
Jan 16, 2009
30,247
4,329
113
That's it , G...... gracias

LK is right, but there are more failures than successes , I suspect.

It makes for good entertainment - sad for some participants, unfortunately

It's a variation on the business school philosophy - the 6 'P' principle.




Proper planning prevents p!ss poor performance
 

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
42,211
5,966
113
I put it this way. People make mistakes all the time. Some of those mistakes show up in yard sales.
 

frank12

Gold
Sep 6, 2011
11,847
29
48
There are also those who came, who made it, and stayed. What and whom you see depends on the friends and associates you make in this country.

I'm sitting here thinking about this, and yeah, you got a good point Lindsey. The owners of Gorditos came here and made their business an extremely successful business, and so did Yamazoto, and so did a few others. but look at how many failed that came both before and after them. Look at how many are just hanging on by a thread right now.

Let's take a few examples right off the top of my head...two of the better restaurants in Sosua (i don't want to mention them by name) are just barely hanging on. One is a fantastic Italian restaurant--run extremely well, with great atmosphere and good location, the other is an international type open-air type restaurant, run by an excellent chef and great German businesswoman--she has a fantastic location and amazing food--but walk by these two restaurants during the either the daytime lunch hour, or during the week night, and there are hardly any clients. Yes, they do good business on the weekends...but that just enables you to pay your overhead costs and the employee wages. You have to factor in things like 10% severance pay for each employee, extra month pay for each employee, vacation pay for each employee, extraordinary electricity bills that are beyond people's imaginations when you factor in a dozen refrigerators & freezers, and expensive diesel generator maintenance and monthly diesel bills for when the electricity goes out (everyday), etc.

Same story with the hotels. You got extraordinary expensive electricity bills, unfathomable electricity bills, lots of hidden costs with maintenance, and high over head costs, and high employee wages that are beyond fathomable when you take in a 10% yearly severance pay that has to be accounted for.

Same story for the gyms, Kite surfing, wind surfing, and outdoor sporting events. All of these places have employees that initially--seem like an easy, low income alternative. But once you factor in their "real" costs, and then throw in "rent," utilities, etc, there is very little margin for profit.

People forget that on an island that depends on tourists and a tourist season, you only have 6 months of potential profit making months, followed by 6 months of starving and trying to make ends meet. At a bar, you need a good combination of regulars, tourists, and alcoholics to keep you in business. It would be nice to have a bunch of high-rollers and big spenders coming in every afternoon and evening, but it doesn't work like that--people have to go back home, back to work, and back to the real life with families and babies. In a restaurant, you need a good combination of regulars, tourists, and high spending gluttonous clients/big spenders, and a whole lot of luck. I mean a whole lot of luck.

Real estate and real estate developers are a whole different animal. The ones that got into the game early did really good. the ones trying to get into the game now are facing huge material costs, land costs, property title problems, building logistics, maintenance costs, etc. This is something i know very little about.

Suffice to say that for everyone who makes it big time--like Gorditos or Papi's in Cabarete--a dozen or more business failed, or are just holding on by a thread. If the economy turned around overnight, that would be something different, and there would be plenty of tourists and customers who would "spill over" into nearby businesses--and many people would survive and do good. As it is now, there are only a limited number of tourists and locals with money who can keep a business afloat. there are few businesses doing so well that there customers are "spilling" over into nearby businesses. In fact, most businesses that have rent are barely making it.

Frank
 

sayanora

Silver
Feb 22, 2012
1,621
36
48
I'm sitting here thinking about this, and yeah, you got a good point Lindsey. The owners of Gorditos came here and made their business an extremely successful business, and so did Yamazoto, and so did a few others. but look at how many failed that came both before and after them. Look at how many are just hanging on by a thread right now.

Let's take a few examples right off the top of my head...two of the better restaurants in Sosua (i don't want to mention them by name) are just barely hanging on. One is a fantastic Italian restaurant--run extremely well, with great atmosphere and good location, the other is an international type open-air type restaurant, run by an excellent chef and great German businesswoman--she has a fantastic location and amazing food--but walk by these two restaurants during the either the daytime lunch hour, or during the week night, and there are hardly any clients. Yes, they do good business on the weekends...but that just enables you to pay your overhead costs and the employee wages. You have to factor in things like 10% severance pay for each employee, extra month pay for each employee, vacation pay for each employee, extraordinary electricity bills that are beyond people's imaginations when you factor in a dozen refrigerators & freezers, and expensive diesel generator maintenance and monthly diesel bills for when the electricity goes out (everyday), etc.

Same story with the hotels. You got extraordinary expensive electricity bills, unfathomable electricity bills, lots of hidden costs with maintenance, and high over head costs, and high employee wages that are beyond fathomable when you take in a 10% yearly severance pay that has to be accounted for.

Same story for the gyms, Kite surfing, wind surfing, and outdoor sporting events. All of these places have employees that initially--seem like an easy, low income alternative. But once you factor in their "real" costs, and then throw in "rent," utilities, etc, there is very little margin for profit.

People forget that on an island that depends on tourists and a tourist season, you only have 6 months of potential profit making months, followed by 6 months of starving and trying to make ends meet. At a bar, you need a good combination of regulars, tourists, and alcoholics to keep you in business. It would be nice to have a bunch of high-rollers and big spenders coming in every afternoon and evening, but it doesn't work like that--people have to go back home, back to work, and back to the real life with families and babies. In a restaurant, you need a good combination of regulars, tourists, and high spending gluttonous clients/big spenders, and a whole lot of luck. I mean a whole lot of luck.

Real estate and real estate developers are a whole different animal. The ones that got into the game early did really good. the ones trying to get into the game now are facing huge material costs, land costs, property title problems, building logistics, maintenance costs, etc. This is something i know very little about.

Suffice to say that for everyone who makes it big time--like Gorditos or Papi's in Cabarete--a dozen or more business failed, or are just holding on by a thread. If the economy turned around overnight, that would be something different, and there would be plenty of tourists and customers who would "spill over" into nearby businesses--and many people would survive and do good. As it is now, there are only a limited number of tourists and locals with money who can keep a business afloat. there are few businesses doing so well that there customers are "spilling" over into nearby businesses. In fact, most businesses that have rent are barely making it.

Frank

Hopefully this will cause businesses to step up their game to stay aloat, no longer will sub-par food and bad customer service survive and that's the way it should be. Only the best of the best are going to stick around and even those would be considered sub-par in most first world nations. Can you imagine Gordon Ramsay coming to ANY of the restaurants in Sosua or Cabarete and trying to dissect why they are failing? I bet it would be damn obvious.
 

william webster

Platinum
Jan 16, 2009
30,247
4,329
113
Good thinking FrankieG, but remember the retail business... Saks, et al.

If they don't make it December, the year's a bust.... literally, they survive on a 6 week window in many cases.

Six months to them would seem like a piece o'cake....

Back to the 6 "P" principle - build the right model

The other factor, using Gordito's as the example - is energy expended.
He does 12 hr days, she does 10.....
Not for everybody.......
 

davetuna

Bronze
Jun 19, 2012
1,071
0
0
Cabarete, Dominican Republic
Hopefully this will cause businesses to step up their game to stay aloat, no longer will sub-par food and bad customer service survive and that's the way it should be. Only the best of the best are going to stick around and even those would be considered sub-par in most first world nations. Can you imagine Gordon Ramsay coming to ANY of the restaurants in Sosua or Cabarete and trying to dissect why they are failing? I bet it would be damn obvious.

and you think that is the reason why cabarete is quiet? I would disagree. you dont need gordon ramsay to walk in........any of the customers who regularly eat out can point out half a dozen things in a restaurant which they do not like or which they would say are not good for business. what you are suggesting is that all the restaurants are the same standard, high end service models.

why would anybody go away if it is all the same as it is back home? surely part of the fun is the fact that you got one girl cooking on one ring for 20 people and the food takes an hour.......and therefore price is lower. maybe I don't understand your idea.

dave
 

DRob

Gold
Aug 15, 2007
8,234
594
113
Well, I don't know much about the restaurant biz, but I am a big fan of Frank, lol.

And his point is valid. People move to a location, expecting it will - magically - "fix" whatever their problem may be.

The problem is, wherever you go, there you are. If you have addiction issues in Cleveland, you'll have them in Cabarete, too. And if your spouse has a wandering eye in the neighborhood, then God help you in DR.

Honestly, I still think a little moderation goes a long way. I love the U.S. too much to move away permanently. But I could very easily get used to the caribbean for long stretches during the winter.
 

sayanora

Silver
Feb 22, 2012
1,621
36
48
and you think that is the reason why cabarete is quiet? I would disagree. you dont need gordon ramsay to walk in........any of the customers who regularly eat out can point out half a dozen things in a restaurant which they do not like or which they would say are not good for business. what you are suggesting is that all the restaurants are the same standard, high end service models.

why would anybody go away if it is all the same as it is back home? surely part of the fun is the fact that you got one girl cooking on one ring for 20 people and the food takes an hour.......and therefore price is lower. maybe I don't understand your idea.

dave

My point is if the restaurants in Caberete were at a proper standard, they would not have to rely on tourists to stay open. If they were good enough they could rely on Santiago residents to stay open. I drive to a mexican restaurant in POP 2-3 times a month from Santiago because it's the best in the DR, you think I'm the only Dominican who does so? Nope, at least 5 different families I see there regularly. It's the place in the Ocean World complex. Cabarete has very few good quality restaurants, but they all have some major issues. The closest in food quality alone at this point in time would be El Brasero, the local filet they serve is divine and consistency has been great.

The only issue they have now is their menu is confusing and the ambience is too lazy. If they were a bit more like Bliss in some ways they would probably have tables being filled up by Santiago/SD residents more.

I lived in Cabarete for a year and we ate out 3-4 times a week. The restaurants there had VERY little consistentcy, you could go once and have a pretty good meal, then the next time it's completely disgusting. Towards the end of our time living there we actually stopped eating out because of this. It was a phenomenon at nearly every one of Cabarete's restaurants.

Basically my mention of Gordon Ramsay walking in was referring to restaurant cleanliness, food quality, menu simplicity, and smart design. Not some high class place you could wipe down with a white glove and not get dirty. I would love to see more restaurants in Caberete use FRESH ingredients, instead of crap imported halfway across the world over 3 months in the back of some daihatsu truck, obviously it takes some planning and time to find the ingredients locally, but I know for a fact that most of the same junk people bring in from the US/EU exist locally at a higher quality and freshness.. rant over and I'm getting hungry.
 

westcan

Member
Sep 10, 2008
194
12
18
I have accumulated so much stuff over the years from people getting up and moving back home to either North America or Europe, that i am thinking about starting a flea market. Just take a second and think about what happens here every single month with foreign investments, and then think about how many people move down here, spend all their money, and then get desperate and try to sell everything as quickly as possible. Here are some everyday scenarios i've witnessed over the years:

1. North American & European couples move down here all the time. Somewhere down the road, the relationship turns sour, because, well, it's a Caribbean island where, fortunately or unfortunately (depending how you look at it), there are virtually no taboos, and no well defined "moral" lines that cannot, and will not be crossed. Once the relationship breaks up, people start looking for an exit plan, and then they're trying to sell everything and head back home.

2. Singles come down here on vacation everyday, fall in love, then go back home, maneuver and manipulate things in order to move down here--to what they think is paradise, only to soon discover--after some months--there is no such thing as paradise. Eventually, their relationship passes the "honeymoon" period, and then they're ready to go back home and lick their wounds. Before they leave, they're trying to sell everything.

3. People move to the DR all the time running from ex's, divorces, bad relationships, chemical addictions, mental problems...you name it. People move down here everyday running from something. They choose the DR for a plethora of reasons--convenience, location, easy visa requirements, weather, prices, etc...but then their problems catch up with them, and so do their bad habits & addictions--and if that isn't enough, their demons catch up as well...and before long, their soon running to the next place that they think is going to solve their problems and offer some kind of redemption. Before long, they're trying to sell everything they own in order to get out of here as fast as possible.

4. Look how many people involved in criminal activity move down to the DR. They get a temporary reprieve from the law and enjoy some halcyon days while on the run. But like everything, their past eventually catches up to them, and soon they're on the next plane either running or being deported. Sometimes, they got a few days of freedom in order to try and sell everything they got. I've had two neighbors (one in Sosua, one in Cabarete) who were both deported. It goes on nearly every month down here. People get desperate, and soon they need to get rid of everything, fast!

5. Look at how many people from North America & Europe come into fast, easy money from either inheritance, selling of a house or property, an insurance payout, a lottery win, etc. They move down here as fast as possible and throw their money trying to own a business/dream in a foreign country of which they know little about, and have no idea how things work here.

Sometimes through either bad luck, bad timing, bad investment, bad advice--or all of the above-- they throw all their money into a business/dream, and soon, they're trying to unload everything in order to try and recoup some of their losses. This happens every month here, and will continue to happen every month as long as people keep inheriting fast, easy money or "hitting" that big payday through some kind of insurance payout, inheritance, good fortunate, etc.

I got many more examples, but this is a good starting point in trying to understand how, if your patient, you can always find a good bargain in the DR from North Americans & Europeans trying to leave the island in a hurry, and go back home to lick their financial wounds and regroup before embarking on their next adventure.

Frank

Jezus, how much stuff have you got?
 

Criss Colon

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
21,843
191
0
38
yahoomail.com
People leave the DR for ALL the "above" reasons, THAT's why we tell them all to rent for 6 months to a year, maybe forever!
If had a "Peso" for every couple who posted how they sold everything, moved to the DR,many on the North Coast",bought an expensive house, and then left, I would have a LOT, of "pesos"!!!!
They forget to think about health issues.
One gets a chronic illness, or dies, and they both, or the one who didn't die,sell everything, at a substantial loss, and head "Home".
IF, they still have one that is!
When I die here,my family will already be "HOME"!!!!!
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windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
42,211
5,966
113
My new place is directly above a cemetery ..... just throw me over....

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Just let you drop "down", perhaps?

As for restaurants/Bar/Grills, in the best of times and locations about 10% of them make it.

What would work on the north coast ? I have no idea and I am glad I don't need to have an idea on that.