Editorial hypocrisy, misinformation, fallacies and falsehood

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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elizabetheames.blogspot.com
Two items in that are questionable.. one is that those who are born here can cross the border easilly.. they cannot. In order to cross the border, one must have legal papers which are in order.. Yes, if they have a cedula.. Yes, if they send money back.. which the legal workers do if for nothing else than to renew their visas.
I know many who were born here of Haitian parents who have never been to Haiti. And the second is that one can hear Kreyole radio here,., one cannot.. except over the internet.. which certainly most Haitians do not have.

There are still questions that no one is asking publically.. How many workers visas are issued for Haitians every year? In other words... how many Haitians in transit are there? There was a process in place for the companies which employed them to get them proper cedulas but most companies stopped, saying the process was too expensive/

What is going to be done with the ongoing issue of children born here to Haitians? Will they be illegal foreigners in residence? Will there be a path to citizenship ever?
 

jkc

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Jun 24, 2013
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Two items in that are questionable.. one is that those who are born here can cross the border easilly.. they cannot. In order to cross the border, one must have legal papers which are in order.. Yes, if they have a cedula.. Yes, if they send money back.. which the legal workers do if for nothing else than to renew their visas.
I know many who were born here of Haitian parents who have never been to Haiti. And the second is that one can hear Kreyole radio here,., one cannot.. except over the internet.. which certainly most Haitians do not have.

There are still questions that no one is asking publically.. How many workers visas are issued for Haitians every year? In other words... how many Haitians in transit are there? There was a process in place for the companies which employed them to get them proper cedulas but most companies stopped, saying the process was too expensive/

What is going to be done with the ongoing issue of children born here to Haitians? Will they be illegal foreigners in residence? Will there be a path to citizenship ever?

You make some excellent points! I am not even sure that DIARO LIBRE know what they are talking about. They basically doing the exact same thing they are accusing those REPUTABLE NEWS PAPERS of doing.
Imagine that! A country with the largest ethnic group, but not even a radio station and now you are telling that these people are not haitians? Common sense prevails here!
I think DR can decide to send these DOMINICANS to haiti, but If I were the HAITIAN government, i would simply not accept them. They are not haitians. They are DOMINICANS. They do not speak creole or french, but castellano. They dance BATCHATA, MERENGUE AND EAT PUPUSA. THEY MAYBE HAITIAN DESCENTS, BUT NOT HAITIANS.
DIARO LIBRE, GET A GRIP! YOU are fighting a LOSING BATTLE!
 

bronzeallspice

Live everyday like it's your last
Mar 26, 2012
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The UN supports the reorganization plan as a solution to the undocumented

European Union mission reports will not send sentence Dominican Republic by TC


Lorenzo Jimenez de Luis, UN representative in the country.

SANTO DOMINGO. The United Nations (UN) said yesterday that the reorganization plan is the only solution to the problem of undocumented immigrants living here, but it must be respectful of international law, human rights and collective expectations affected citizens.

By providing the information, the UN Resident Coordinator in the country, Lorenzo Jimenez de Luis, said the Constitutional Court (TC) can not be in "questioned" because it is a final decision and immovable, and therefore is not subject to the consideration of international organizations.

Interviewed in the National Palace after meeting with Gustavo Montalvo, Minister of the Presidency Luis Jimenez said that at the request of the government, the UN delivered next Tuesday at a proposal for the regularization of foreigners, which, he said, will subject to respect for the judgment of the TC 168-13.

"The government has asked what is collaboration. Nowhere is a binding proposal. A who gets to draw the government's plan, will be a proposal respects the laws and sovereignty, will send it to Gustavo Montalvo" explained .

Ban Ki-moon

Also, Luis Jimenez said that on 8 October, the UN secretary general, Ban Ki-moon telephoned President Danilo Medina, to express their solidarity, and talk about the judgment and the human drama of the undocumented residents in the country.

After receiving the UN official, met Montalvo Dominican ambassador in Haiti, Ruben Silie, and Deputy Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Trullols, who at the end of it, did not address the issue of the undocumented or the proposal UN would.



La ONU apoya el Plan de Regularizaci?n como salida a los indocumentados - DiarioLibre.com
 

bronzeallspice

Live everyday like it's your last
Mar 26, 2012
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You make some excellent points! I am not even sure that DIARO LIBRE know what they are talking about. They basically doing the exact same thing they are accusing those REPUTABLE NEWS PAPERS of doing.
Imagine that! A country with the largest ethnic group, but not even a radio station and now you are telling that these people are not haitians? Common sense prevails here!
I think DR can decide to send these DOMINICANS to haiti, but If I were the HAITIAN government, i would simply not accept them. They are not haitians. They are DOMINICANS. They do not speak creole or french, but castellano. They dance BATCHATA, MERENGUE AND EAT PUPUSA. THEY MAYBE HAITIAN DESCENTS, BUT NOT HAITIANS.
DIARO LIBRE, GET A GRIP! YOU are fighting a LOSING BATTLE!

When the US and other countries deport illegals they don't give a damn how long they've been
in the country or if they've never had any contact(which is doubtful) with family members.

They don't give a damn whether some may think they are Americans, they are simply put
on the plane and adios muchachos.

The Haitian gov't has no recourse but to accept them. The UN has spoken in favor of the
DR's constitutional ruling.Whether anyone likes it or not, that's their problem.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Much of the misinformation is due to three major groups:

1. Pro-Haitianizing NGOs. They know the Dominican government is trying to affect their money making scheme and they don't want their lifestyle to be affected. For many of these NGO's, what happens to the Haitians is only relevant if it affecta their bottom line. The Minister of Migration has been saying for a little over a year that the pro-Haitian NGO's, especially those involved in outright lying to the international community about the Haitians at the expense of the image of the DR, should start looking for another flag to wave and another money making scheme, because the Dominican government will take this one away from them.

2. Pro-Haitian "Dominicans." I don't know why they don't move to Haiti. This tiny but noisy group isn't new, they have existed since before our independence, but I never manage to understand why they don't move further west and apply for Haitian citizenship and live the rest of their lives according to Haitian values and beliefs.

3. The diplomatic missions of the Haitian government. They are the reason organizations like the UN, CARICOM, and the European Un ion, among others, have even bothered to express their opinions about this. Of course, they are reacting based on what the Haitian diplomats are saying about the sentence, which isn't quite what is actually happening. The Haitian government was given a very clear explanation of what the sentence entails, and this explanation was given to them upon their own request; but, Haitian diplomats insist on spreding their own interpretation of what the sentence entails, an interpretation that is filled with half-truth and idiotic speculation.

For these reasons I don't blame many of the international newspapers that have published anti-Dominican articles about this. There are a few exceptions though, like the Boston Globe, the Miami Herald and a few others that I know have Haitian journalists that at every occassion they can get, they don't waste time to start slandering the DR.
 

Naked_Snake

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Sep 2, 2008
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And the second is that one can hear Kreyole radio here,., one cannot.. except over the internet.. which certainly most Haitians do not have.

Maybe not over here, but from Azua up to the borderline, Haitian stations have all but taken over the airwaves, and the few local ones that can still be listened face a lot of interference. Just ask Willy Rodriguez or any other person working at Z-101 about the many complaints they have made to the gov. to do something about it, to no avail.
 

Virgo

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Oct 26, 2013
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Two items in that are questionable.. one is that those who are born here can cross the border easilly.. they cannot. In order to cross the border, one must have legal papers which are in order.. Yes, if they have a cedula.. Yes, if they send money back.. which the legal workers do if for nothing else than to renew their visas.

I know many who were born here of Haitian parents who have never been to Haiti. And the second is that one can hear Kreyole radio here,., one cannot.. except over the internet.. which certainly most Haitians do not have. proper cedulas but most companies stopped, saying the process was too expensive/

What is going to be done with the ongoing issue of children born here to Haitians? Will they be illegal foreigners in residence? Will there be a path to citizenship ever?
Are you serious, or just playing fool?
When the article says that they can go back and forth through the porous border, the point is that they can find unguarded spots to get through. That also happens in the US/Mexico border. Even Haiti is concerned about this, since they are building a wall. But their motivation is to force Haitians to pay duties, which now they evade simply by crossing through unguarded points. Some do the same from Haiti to cut trees, gather fruits, etc in the DR side.

Last I checked, radio waves have no notion of political boundaries, so any Haitian radio station that can reach the Haitian communities near the border will without questions be picked up within the DR...of course not in the entire DR...depending on the strength of the station it may reach just the border provinces, or go beyond...same for TV stations, but TV antennas are normally directional so they need to be aimed...perhaps Haitians in the DR are less likely to own a TV than a radio, also. In the far east of the DR it is relatively easy to pick up Puerto Rican TV stations, if the antenna is appropriately aimed.

You continue to be obsessed with birthplace ASSUMING that it always has something to do with citizenship. As explained in the article and elsewhere, in many countries there is ZERO connection between birthplace and citizenship...like IN HAITI itself for example. In all the jus sanguinis countries there are people born there who are citizens of their parents's countries...Even if their parents were also born there...Find out how those countries handle those cases and it should give you some ideas....same when jus soli is restrictive to permanent residents...even in the 30 pure jus soli countries, like the US, often adults illegally bring very young children, even babies into the country, and they grow up there without ever laying a foot outside...yet they remain foreigners, and can be deported. It is not their fault, but it is not the host country's fault either that the adults brought them in without permission.
 

Virgo

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Oct 26, 2013
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For these reasons I don't blame many of the international newspapers that have published anti-Dominican articles about this. There are a few exceptions though, like the Boston Globe, the Miami Herald and a few others that I know have Haitian journalists that at every occassion they can get, they don't waste time to start slandering the DR.
To the extend that they are going as far as encouraging "pressuring" actions on Dominicans without getting themselves properly informed, they are being highly irresponsible, which cannot be excused. They should do their checks before editorializing, including, among other things, consulting with ALL sides of the issue, not just one.
 
Mar 1, 2009
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When I lived in Switzerland, many people I hung out with were born in the different cantons and were residents of the cantons but not Swiss citizens. They were not eligible, even though they were born there and grown up there, their WHOLE lives. Italy was minutes away but nope, Austria or Germany was just a hop over the border, literally!! But nope they bullheadedly grasped at one day obtaining the Helvetic passport.
However back to the Caribbean, the Haitians if they can find a way to get to DR, they can find a way to get back to Haiti and obtain their due and proper citizenship and therefore not be stateless.
They choose to remain stateless and that ain't right.

Why? The NGO's and these warm hearted activists have told them not too, Haitians don't want Haitian citizenship!!!!!!!
How is your personal choice the fault of the government?
It's like choosing to not get a drivers license or healthcare!!! It's YOUR decision, the consequences are yours too.
There are just too many who provide aid and comfort to these poor darlings, always telling them how they have been victimized and they DESERVE a handout instead of a hand up.
These people are truly responsible for many of the conflicts that take place in the world today. They falsely accuse governments and the majority ethnic population of a country of gross abuses and discrimination.
In northern Africa a government overthrown, after it was accused of murdering its own people, providing soldiers with Viagra to rape women.
In the Balkan area of Europe in the 90's one ethnic group was demonized and accused of being the NEW NAZIS, they were said to have murder thousands and setting up death camps. The amounts were later found to be inflated and the facts manipulated. A country was destroyed however, divided into smaller pieces, an ethnic group forever smeared and is usually used in Hollywood movies as the villains "du jour".
In the middle east another government was accused of killing "peaceful protesters", the US embassy, the USAID and all the other alphabet soup of NGO's and other stinking groups that "fight for FREEDOM', began howling, hooting and hollering, jumping up and down for action. Weapons were shipped, bombs have been dropped. 100,000 people dead and counting.
The PEACEFUL protesters, have now been eating hearts, livers and butchering, PILLAGING the population.

We Dominicans are before a huge smear campaign, very dangerous, very grave.
We are accused of fostering a NEO NAZI system, an apartheid in the Caribbean, all the NGO's know this is in fact not true. However they push the envelope to catalyze a change in their favor within the system. Troubling and extremely distressing.
The NGO's create problems and situations in their air-conditioned offices and put there "charges" in horrible situations in which they put them in danger, creating-fabricating-manufacturing martyrs and victims. Inexcusable.

Have you no shame?
NO integrity?
Do you not wish to be part of the solution instead of continuously being part of the PROBLEM?
Be Godless and Amoral if you wish but keep your twisted ideas to yourself and your air conditioned finery.
While we, who have are the people with deep roots and even deeper ties to this land than you would ever have, ask you, BEG you to keep out.
We are the characters in the books you read while growing up, the Uncas, the chingachkook, the crazyhorses, the Tecumseths. We are struggling for our land and our people.
The ruling, STANDS.
Enough of the sponsoring of so called victims.
 

Virgo

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Oct 26, 2013
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...the Haitians if they can find a way to get to DR, they can find a way to get back to Haiti and obtain their due and proper citizenship and therefore not be stateless.
Actually it's much simpler...they just need to find one of the FOUR Haitian consulates distributed about the DR and that's it...

In another thread someone posted a message from the Haitian government encouraging Haitians to get BIRTH CERTIFICATES for their children and related docs at any of their 4 consulates.

Considering that the DR is quite small (same size as Switzerland, btw) it's safe to say that NO Haitian in the DR has to travel too far to reach one of 4 consulates, no matter where s/he is.