View Poll Results: Do you support the sentence of the Constitutional Tribunal?

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  • Yes, I agree completely.

    24 63.16%
  • I mostly agree, but it needs some changes.

    5 13.16%
  • I don't agree.

    6 15.79%
  • Not sure / don't care

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Thread: The Sentence of the Constitutional Tribunal

  1. #1
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    Default The Sentence of the Constitutional Tribunal

    Enough time, information, and misinformation has been published about the sentence from the Constitutional Tribunal regarding the regularization of irregularly inscribed foreigners and their descendants. The Constitutional Tribunal doesn't have the legal power to make retroactive decisions, that's why all sentences from the CT are declaratory in nature, similar to paternal DNA tests that can only xlear up if a person is the parent or child of someone else, but the test can't possibly state that a person becomes the son of someone else from the day the test results are known. Under the same concept is how the CT works, because a person doesn't becommes the child of another the moment the test results are known; such person was the child of someone else since before the test, only that the test cleared up the confusion.

    That's the gist behind the media war that exist regarding the sentence of the CT, with opponents of the ruling claiming that it's retroactive when in reality the CT can only make clarifications on laws already in existance, in this case the nationality articles in Dominican constitutions since 1929.

    The other part of the issue was made public yesterday by the JCE. The institution claims that the revision of the almost 60,000 books of the Civil Registry from 1929 to 2007 has concluded and they discovered slightly more than 50,000 foreigners and their descendants registered regularly and irregularly. Also, the descendants of Haitians in the Civil Registry hoovers the 14,000 figure. These individuals will have their status regularized and for those who qualify, they will be able to opt for Dominican Citizenship. In some situations Dominican Citizenship will be granted automatically.

    The sentence of the CT requires the regularization of those in the Civil Registry, not to those that don't appear in the books whether regular or irregular.

    Anyway, it would be interesting to gauge the public opinion among DR1ers regarding this legal issue that can't be revoked, modified, or ignored.
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  2. #2
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    Have to agree. It's a tough situation but why does Haiti get a pass on not issuing bc's or providing a mechanism to get them?

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    The foreign citizens that have been coming en masse regularly for decades, have made choices as adults. There choices of just living day to day and not urging their government to lend them a hand has resulted in this situation. It is their responsibility to take action not ours. Now European and American activists have taken upon themselves to foster this imaginary situation where supposedly millions are being abused and exploited. These are the same type of HUMANITARIAN activists that conjured up the war in Libya and Syria demonizing the government, blatantly lying and manipulating information. We don't need these type of so called Humanitarians or Human rights defenders. They do nothing but damage the reputation of such organizations by crying wolf constantly. They have actually made things worse, just as the obvious DESTABILIZATION of DR is taking place. Enough is enough.

  4. Likes Frank the Tank, bronzeallspice liked this post
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    I mostly agree, but are of the opinion that bateyeros should be exempted (up to the year 2003).

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    Dominicans want ANY person with a drop of Haitian blood, deported back to Haiti, always have, always will!
    They fail to realize that would mean most of THEM would have to go too!
    CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

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    Criss, you are talking nonsense. There are many Dominican-Haitians in the DR
    born to legal parents and therefore have Dominican citizenship.

    The issue here is ILLEGALS.

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    I keep saying to send 'em to PR, that way they'll reach the "land of the free" and learn how to say, "ayyyyyy benditooooo"....
    I remember historically when boricuas used to come over in large amounts to DR, because then as now PR has no jobs and too many crazy, craaaaaaazy women so they came, Hostos, Betances, Balaguer's dad, Bosch's dad....They kept coming until a dude last name Colon arrived, we Dominicans finally said enough is enough.....
    So we decided to send some of our guys and gals to even it up a bit!
    So many have gone that now the Haitianos want in on it!!!!
    Imagine that, creole being spoken in Mayaguez, San Juan, Ponce, el Junque, Toa Abajo, Vieques!!!
    They would fill up Borinquen in a month.

    LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

  11. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Criss Colon View Post
    Dominicans want ANY person with a drop of Haitian blood, deported back to Haiti, always have, always will!
    They fail to realize that would mean most of THEM would have to go too!
    CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
    Cool no Haitian blood here, all you pitis can GTF out my country lol.

  12. #10
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    Some people believe that most Dominicans probably have Haitian ancestors, but in reality Haitian migration to the Dominican/Spanish part was, until the 1990s and 2000s quite light.

    From 1697 to 1801, even though these were not Haitian proper (unlike Dominican sense of identity, the Haitian sense of ide tity arose after their independence not before and as such, we can't refer to people on the French side prior to 1804 as Haitians). There was some migration of slaves that escaped from the French part and this was even encouraged by the Spanish slave laws which were some of the most linient in history that made it easy for slaves in Spanish colonies to gain their freedom. Regarding the slaves from Saint Domingue, they were granted their freedom ass soon as they crossed into Santo Domingo (current DR). This was a point of contention with the French because they demanded that their runaway slaves be returned while the Spanish objected. Runaway slaves from Saint Domingue became free men and women, and subjects of the Spanish Crown with equal rights as was given to the Spanish themselves.

    Many of these people became subsistence farmers and were not just left alone by the Spanish authorities, but also their freedom was protected by the Spanish Crown itself with the French understanding that any incursions into Santo Domingo in search of their former slaves would be cause for military retaliation because they were effectively attacking free Spanish sujects.

    There are no reliable estimates how many people made use of what can be called our very own underground railroad, but it couldn't had been sufficient to alter the character of the Dominican population. Some former towns, like San Lorenzo de Los Mina (today its a neighborhood in Santo Domingo Este) was settled by runaway slaves from Saint Domingue. That town was created with permission of the Spanish authorities and they were left to live their lives as free men and women with equal rights as the rest of the Spanish population.

    From 1801 to 1822 whatever amount of Haitians that migrated eastward must had been negligible. First, the military incursion by Touissant in 1801 and later the assassins Dessalines and Christophe in 1805 didn't left many Haitians on this side. If anything, whatever changes the Dominican population startd to experience was due to the emigration of some white, mixed race, and anyone else that felt threatened by the bloody invasions, especially the terrible one from 1805 when the Haitians attempted to commit genocide on the peaceful and innocent Dominican population.

    From 1822 to 1844 the Haitians controlled Santo Domingo (current DR) with tens of thousands of Haitian military men. That was definitely the largest influx of Haitians into Dominican territory, plus the 6000 African Americans that arrived in the 1820s although most went back to the US; but, the occupation failed due to stupid laws such as prohibiting the Spanish language (during the French occupation from 1802 to 1809, everything was done in French and in Spanish), ruptured the relationship with the Vatican, tried to limit the holidays and cockfighting (before baseball cockfighting was the preferred sport among Dominicans), tried to taxed the population to pay the debt to France (Dominicans outright rejected paying for that under the excuse that we were never subjects of France, not even during the French occupation of 1802-1809), etc. To add salt to injury, Boyer's regime didn't give provisions to the Haitian troops stationed in the Dominican side and they developed the habit of demanding from the Dominican poppulation to give them food and other stuff, in many caases the Haitian troops engaged in outright theft especially from Dominican campesinos, in the process earning their repudiation from the population at large.

    From 1844 to 1920s Haitian migration was also negligible. The fact that not a single foreigner that wrote about their visits to the DR (including Samuel Hazard in 1871) mentioned the presence of Haitian colonies anywhere in the DR is a reliable testament to this. Samuel Hazard did mentioned that there wer many black immigrants from the Britsh Caribbean in places like Puerto Plata and even mentioned the African American colony in Samana (he obviously mentioned them because they were numerous enough to be noticed), but nothing about a visible presence of Haitians. Also, the Census done in the early 20th +entury by the Americans had Puerto Ricans as the largest colony of foreigners in the country and Haitians weren't in the top 5. Most of the black foreigners were Cocolos from the Lesser Antilles.

    From 1920s to 1980s Haitian migration was mostly controlled and never surpassed 100 000 at any time, they were overwhelmingly men and were restrained to the sugar plantations. Not much illegal migration took place, especially during the Trujillo years.

    From 1980s to 2000s illegal migration picked up as political instability took over Haiti after Baby Doc's dictatorship collapsed. Since the 2000s the flow has increase and after the earthquake the DR has experienced the largest influx of illegals in all of its history, the colonial part included (the ruaway slaves from Saint Domingue).

    Until the mid-20th century Haiti was better off than the DR and the Haitian population density was within the natural carrying capacity for the size of their territory. There were no pull or push factors for Haitian migration to DR and, not surprisingly, the Haitians didn't migrated eastward in sizeable numbers.

    In colonial times there was a pull factor and that was automatic freedom as soon as the slaves crossed into the Spanish side, which was bigger than the current DR (53 000 km2 vs 48 000 km2 due to Haitians stealing 5 000 km2 that rightly belonged to us- valleys of Guava, la Miel, etc). But, their flow was not that great to alter the character of the population, otherwise at least the chroniclers from the time would had mentioned this in their writings.

    Post mid-20th century an increasingly prosperous DR has become a pull factor while the falling apart of Haiti has become a push factor on Haitian migration and explains why its right now that the Spanish side of the island is seeing the largest influx of Francophone people.

    Anyway, I think its safe to assume that most Dominicans don't have Haitian ancestry. The Spanish side of the island has been majority mulatto and freesince the mid-1600s, in the 1700s we had the largest influx of whites (Spaniards from Canary island accounted for much of the population growth during that century), in the 1800s there was an exodus of many whites, an influx of blacks, and after 1844 an influx of whites and after 1870s an influx of blacks. From 1930 to 1961 we had an influx of whites, post 1980s an influx of blacks. During those times, much racial mixing has taken place, but the current migration flow is uncomfortable because of Haiti's history of coveting the Dominican Territory and of using its people as chess pieces in its island expansion ambition, as we've seen with the loss of the 5 000 km2 of Guava.

    To all of this we must add that among certain Haitians there is a feeling of hopelessness for Haiti and, at the sametime, envy for the progress the DR has achieved compared to them during the past half century. This is why its quite often that, at least it has been my experience, when some Haitians speak of Haiti's development, they always mention the DR as a sort of yardstick that they use to judge their own backwardness and the lost opportunities they had. I have never heard a Haitian compare their country to Jamaica or Bahamas or Trinidad or Barbados, all countries that have also developed much more than Haiti. Its the Domin ican development that catches their attention and, in some cases, I say envy too.

    A few years ago I was reading an interview that was done to a Haitian and when asked about why the DR has gone ahead while Haiti has not, he said (and this is the only part that I still remember: "they still have kids walking barefoot."

    In DR1 fashion; 'nuff said
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