Pero que abuso...

pgolivares said:

My mother hired a man back in October/2013. The 1st 3 months the man is doing his job. Since comes February:2014 the man begins slacking off. My mother asked to pick up the pace or he is out. Finally she fires Hom for not doing his job. She goes to the dept of labor to present her case and she is told that she has to pay him ~DR$16k. She argues that the man is not doing what he was hired to do. The is the law you must pay him they told her. When I questioned her what's the deal with that she told me that if an employee is employed for more than 3 months he is entitled to this and that plus this and that... That's the law and as result small businesses are letting employees go before the 3 months are up.

Pero que abuso... How is the economy suppose to improve? How is the small business man suppose to make it?

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Fire somebody before the 90 day probation ends. Businesses know that, or should.

But it is a problem because workers know that, too, and give you 90 good days.

But by documenting the failings and making a report to the labor office each time, you can build a file that lets you discharge with less payment. Some things can't be avoided, like vacation days not taken.

that number is steep. how much was she paying this man per month? i just let someone go who was with us for about two years and we were required to pay about 24,000 pesos.

Also, liquidation pay does not apply to domestic workers.

It probably includes pre-Aviso (2 weeks) and 13th month portion.

Firing someone for 'not doing his job fast enough' is way to vague to get away with without paying severance pay.

Maybe I am wrong, but the dept of labor has no enforcement power. If the company refuses to pay what the liquidation is or wants to pay less, the worker must hire a lawyer and sue the company. I had a friend go through this.

vida said:

Maybe I am wrong, but the dept of labor has no enforcement power. If the company refuses to pay what the liquidation is or wants to pay less, the worker must hire a lawyer and sue the company. I had a friend go through this.

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Enough lawyers who will take a labor case for a %

vida said:

Maybe I am wrong, but the dept of labor has no enforcement power. If the company refuses to pay what the liquidation is or wants to pay less, the worker must hire a lawyer and sue the company. I had a friend go through this.

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Many will do this, I hear about workers suing for money a lot and these are idiots who stole form their employer and still win!

They Take Away Their Work.

Harleysrock said:

... I hear about workers suing for money a lot and these are idiots who stole form their employer and still win!

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In my early DR years (mid 90's) I had that experience, too.

Furthermore, they reported late, went early, stole farm produce and went home with small chickens under their hat... The longer we employed them the more they stole and slept in the shade.
Never was the labour office impressed by that attitude and wanted us to pay anyway.

Now, for some years we have had Haitian workers.
They are punctual, work very well (without supervision), do not steal from us and even say 'gracias' when they receive their pay.

And Dominicans say, Haitians steal their work... :tired:

donP

donP said:

In my early DR years (mid 90's) I had that experience, too.

Furthermore, they reported late, went early, stole farm produce and went home with small chickens under their hat... The longer we employed them the more they stole and slept in the shade.
Never was the labour office impressed by that attitude and wanted us to pay anyway.

Now, for some years we have had Haitian workers.
They are punctual, work very well (without supervision), do not steal from us and even say 'gracias' when they receive their pay.

And Dominicans say, Haitians steal their work... :tired:

donP

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I don't doubt it. A while ago I remodeled two bathrooms. Had a pile of demolished ceramics on the marquesina. Asked a dominican guy to remove it...he wanted to charge 1000 pesos and when he saw it, he said he needed at least 1500. I went to look for aHaitian guy that guarded a construction site not far from my house. Two guys came and did the job for 600 pesos in total, in about 1 hour.

Fair Pay for Good Work

Mauricio said:

.... Asked a dominican guy to remove it... he said he needed at least 1500. I went to look for aHaitian guy that guarded a construction site not far from my house. Two guys came and did the job for 600 pesos in total, in about 1 hour.

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It is not that we pay the Haitians less, they get the same pay as the Dominicans (and of course, now more than then in the 90's).

Somehow, I think, that the Haitians feel good receiving a fair pay for their good work, whereas our former workers were always trying to score us off.

donP

Dominican Labour Law Justice

Derfish said:

Que abuso? That one has an employee and then refuses to pay the legally required severance pay? That yes is abuso!
Der Fish

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Fish, could it be that you misunderstood something here?

A fair employer will always pay what is legally due and correct.
But what so often happens, is, that the 'oficina de trabajo' and the 'labour courts' categorically refuse to accept any negligence or wrongdoing on the worker's part and make you pay - no matter what.

And you know what?
The Dominicans know that....

donP

the law is that you need to pay the money. i agree that this is an abuse and it only discourages businesses to employ people legally or to pay them a decent wage. however, 16k seems like a lot for just few months of work.

edited to add: i calculated the liquidation using generous 15k pesos a month, indeed, with this salary the liquidation is 16k. tell your mother to have the paperwork from ministerio de trabajo printed out, have the worker sign and date one copy and leave this the other copy. and next time pay less money and change workers every two months.

It was mentioned earlier.... the 3 strike rule... report the infractions to the Labor Dept.... after 3 infractions the employer is off the hook.

I have paid a HUGE amount to one worker... lawyer chased me.
Lose every time.... we literally had to kick him awake on the garage floor.... condoms in the trash when we were away, hooker heaven..... all sorts of things.

Never hadmuch luck with that domestic worker angle either.

You really need to pick carefully.... smooth sailing for me now.... for the time being

In short, this is the wrong country for an employer to enter a labor dispute

vida said:

Maybe I am wrong, but the dept of labor has no enforcement power. If the company refuses to pay what the liquidation is or wants to pay less, the worker must hire a lawyer and sue the company. I had a friend go through this.

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There are lots of lawyers who specialize in this. They take the case for a percentage of the award and sue the company for a great deal more than the amount of the liquidation, supporting the demand with a whole laundry list of claims.

Usually it is cheaper for the company to pay the liquidation, faster, too, as the labor court can take a year or more to render a decision, which the employee can appeal, adding to the legal bill.

However, we had a situation some time ago where an employee dropped his pants in front of female employee. We think he wanted to get fired and collect his severance.

However, we thought the action of the employee was too serious, so we refused to pay more than the mandated minimum. We were sued for RD$500,000, many,many times more than the amount of severance. It took about a year before we got the decision, which was in our favor. The employee appealed. When there is an appeal, they don't hear the case over but a 3-judge panel reviews all the documents and the trial judge's decision. We won that, too.

In this case the legal fees were more than the amount we would have paid in severance, and we still had to pay for unused vacation and the percentage earned toward the Christmas bonus (these can't be avoided and would have been paid immediately), but we felt a great deal better about spending the money on lawyer fees than we would have paying the full severance.

Over the years, I have had a few maids do the same thing.
If it is only a few thousand more than I offered them, I just pay ti, and move on, your "Mom" should do the same.
I ONLY hire people who have good references, usually from family members.
Dominican "Laws" favor "Workers", and "Renters"!
Be AWARE of the laws, BEFORE they bite you in your A$$,not AFTER!
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