Official says houses for illegal aliens in Dominican territory ?illegal?

Marcion

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Nov 22, 2014
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Santo Domingo.- Interior and Police minister Jose Ramon Fadul on Tuesday called an foreign-funded NGO?s construction of houses for undocumented Haitians in Dominican territory, unusual and in violation of immigration laws. "It's like building a home for a fugitive from Justice."

In a phone interview for elnacional.com.do, the also president of the National Immigration Council reacted to reports on the construction of 250 homes for undocumented Haitians in an area near the town Montellano, northern Puerto Plata province.

The houses made of concrete blocks and tin roofs are built by the Canada-based Samaritan Foundation and would house around 1,200 undocumented Haitians.

"That's against immigration laws governing the country," the official said.

Fadul said a committee was designated to conduct a survey and analyze the situation.

He warned that as of June 30 foreigners who fail to apply for the Reorganization Plan will be deported, "with or without a house."

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/po...illegal-aliens-in-Dominican-territory-illegal

When it comes to foreign NGO's meddling within their country many governments are now taking the position of 'deport first, ask questions later.' I wouldn't be surprised if the DR started adopting that attitude because of events like this.

Did it not occur to this 'charity' that actual Dominicans need housing? If they have so much time and money why are they spending it on illegal aliens? Did they not think the locals would notice what was going on?

Moreover, if these busy-body social engineers were so concerned about homeless Haitians why don't they build the houses in...HAITI?

Oftentimes, foreign 'charity' groups are used as political cover to facilitate less obvious agendas...
 
Aug 21, 2007
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Marcion, your comments raise many good questions, even though they sound harsh. However, your reasons above are why my charity chose to relocate its services to areas where mostly poor Dominicans live, not Haitians. We didn't wish to place ourselves in the midst of a political storm.

However, I will say, having worked with poor Haitians and poor Dominicans, generally speaking, the level of poverty is much greater for Haitians.

Yet, I will also say that I see Haitian communities become dependent on the generosity of charity groups. If one's house will be built and paid by others, if others will bring packets of food each week, if when they are sick, they can go to the free clinic and receive free medicine, if clothing and toys and other items are handed out without requiring any effort on the part of the recipient, then where is the incentive to work and provide for oneself?

Sadly, this is what I see happening in many of these areas. And that won't change the long term circumstances of illegal Haitians, nor help the Dominican Republic through this immigration problem.

By the way, the Samaritan Foundation's houses have been in existence in the Montellano area for more than 10 years. And now people are complaining?

Lindsey

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mountainannie

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Usually international NGOs operate with full knowledge of the government. They often actually operate at the direction of the government,. for instance, the Batay Relief Agency asked the government where it was needed and was asked to open up a health clinic in Monte Plata to help serve the descendants of those Haitians who had been left there after the sugar mills closed.

I do not know about the Samaritan's Purse or the group of "Haitians" that they are serving .. or how long they have been ther but just a cursory look at their FB page reveals that the group is not building homes for Haitians https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.743377279065234.1073741869.193142837422017&type=1

but rather for members of their local congregation,. everyone in the more than 100 families selected for the random grab bag draw had to have their own homes first inspected to see if they were in need, then also file a police report for everyone in the family over 16, along with some sort of "certificate " of good standing from the community,

This " news" report was done without any sort of investigation and was evidently just an opportunity for the police chief to warn the "Haitians" (I put that in quotes since many of the people considered Haitians were born here and consider themselves Dominicans) that they will be deported.


If you have been following the regularization process, you will be aware that only a very small percentage, something like 10% of the people who have applied, have been granted residency under the "regularization" process.

If you follow the Dominican press for a while, you will understand that it should never been taken at face value. There are a couple of real investigative reporters but most of the papers just print whatever the government officials or business leaders or .. whatever.. in other words.. they print press releases, not news stories.

Now, there may be a story behind this.. there may be a Haitian immigrant who got one of the houses, There may have been omplaints from members of the congregation. That person may or may not have been born here.

But all these things were not reported.


or at least that is what it looks like to me.
 

windeguy

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No need to put the word "Haitians" in quotes since the DR does no recognize jus soli. Being born in the DR does not make you "Dominican". Of course this story is just another warning about what is likely to happen during the regularization process and it does not matter how long those homes have existed.
 

mountainannie

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No need to put the word "Haitians" in quotes since the DR does no recognize jus soli. Being born in the DR does not make you "Dominican". Of course this story is just another warning about what is likely to happen during the regularization process and it does not matter how long those homes have existed.



Yes, I understand all that. I just use the quotes to underline the fact that many of these people, and their families, have been in this country all their lives. It is not as if they are going to be deported "back" to their country.

I was a great defender and supporter of the DR's regularization process but I see how few people have qualified and think now that it was just a mockery for things to continue exactly as they were.
 
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Concrete Blocks?? Tin Roofs??? Why the next thing you know you'll be giving them basic sanitation..

I recall some TV program on bringing in sugar cane workers who were given block houses to live on. Other rural folk in the area complained because they were still in homes made from wood slabs and thatch. Dominicans don't want any Haitian to be living in conditions better than the poorest campesino..
 

bronzeallspice

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President Danilo stated a while go that it was in no means a full amnesty but the news media kept
reporting it as such. He spelled out the criteria necessary in order for illegal foreigners to qualify.

The Haitian government has been delaying or has made it difficult for those Haitians who need
documentation.

The fault is not of the Dominican government who has made it possible for illegal Haitians to get
regularized by making the process free of charge, but the Haitian government who is giving them
a hard time. Many Haitians have protested in front of the Haitian embassy in SD, putting the
blame squarely on their shoulders.

The DR has done all it can, it is up to the Haitian government to do their part, IF they want their
citizens to apply for the regularization plan. If not then it looks like they want them back home.
 
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mountainannie

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mountainannie searching for figures on how many approved[/QUOTE said:
The Haitian Ambassador says fewer than 150 have been approved. Haiti - Politic : Less than 150 Haitian regularized in the Dominican Republic ! - HaitiLibre.com : Haiti news 7/7 120000 have opened files , 500 had all the documents,..

this report .. in contrast to

this one 74 mil 775 extranjeros se han acogido al Plan Nacional de Regularizaci?n -


sorry,.. to the OP.. do not mean to hijack.. just rode off on a small tangent, similar to a unicycle.


Just that for those who are called to serve the poor, the very poorest here tend to be Haitian.
 

bob saunders

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Concrete Blocks?? Tin Roofs??? Why the next thing you know you'll be giving them basic sanitation..

I recall some TV program on bringing in sugar cane workers who were given block houses to live on. Other rural folk in the area complained because they were still in homes made from wood slabs and thatch. Dominicans don't want any Haitian to be living in conditions better than the poorest campesino..

Sure they do, just in Haiti.
 

mountainannie

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President Danilo stated a while go that it was in no means a full amnesty but the news media kept
reporting it as such. He spelled out the criteria necessary in order for illegal foreigners to qualify.

The Haitian government has been delaying or has made it difficult for those Haitians who need
documentation.

The fault is not of the Dominican government who has made it possible for illegal Haitians to get
regularized by making the process free of charge, but the Haitian government who is giving them
a hard time. Many Haitians have protested in front of the Haitian embassy in SD, putting the
blame squarely on their shoulders.

The DR has done all it can, it is up to the Haitian government to do their part, IF they want their
citizens to apply for the regularization plan. If not then it looks like they want them back home.


well you can believe that if you want. But there were huge parts of the plan which were not put in place.. as in offices not opened, translations in Kreyole not available, all that,..

and there have been protests against the Haitan government but they, too, have opened up special offices, drastically reduced fees, offered free birth certificates (why anyone needed a passport is beyond me... a birth certificate should have been enough)

Here is the head of the OIM, which is the international body in charge

Al observar que las reclamaciones en algunos medios de comunicaci?n locales sobre la falta de documentos legales de los haitianos constituyen un obst?culo para la introducci?n del Plan Nacional, Winter se?al?: ?Es muy importante reconocer que la Ley de Migraci?n y su reglamento permiten que la identificaci?n los migrantes se realice no s?lo a trav?s de los documentos nacionales de identidad, sino tambi?n que los funcionarios dominicanos conserven la capacidad de verificar y registrar la informaci?n biom?trica de las personas?.

?Esta es una pr?ctica ampliamente utilizada para la gesti?n de la migraci?n y es una parte esencial del equilibrio entre los derechos humanos de las personas y los problemas de seguridad nacional. La OIM considera que el registro biom?trico es el aspecto m?s importante de su apoyo al Plan Nacional de Regularizaci?n de Extranjeros y elogia a los equipos que han logrado registrar a m?s de 70.000 personas en apenas cuatro meses?.

ww.iom.int/cms/es/sites/iom/home/news-and-views/press-briefing-notes/pbn-2014b/pbn-listing/iom-joins-session-on-dominican-r.htmlw

So I think that the DR is going to have to step it up in terms of qualifying people if it wants to satisfy the "international" community.. (read the IMF et al)
 

AlterEgo

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To the OP, my husband echoes your sentiments. I don't recall hearing as many anti-Haitian remarks as I have the past year or so, and I've been in and out of DR since 1975. It's certainly accelerated since the earthquake, and reading about 8,000+ Haitians being caught crossing the border alarms many Dominicans. Add a do-gooder-group buiding homes for the illegals, and it's a recipe for protests and anger.

We are not anti-Haitian, just anti illegal-Haitians. If the group building the homes could insure the recipients were legal, it would soften the blow. After reading Annie's statistics, I'm thinking there probably aren't enough legal Haitians up there to fill the homes.

I agree with building the homes in Haiti.
 

bronzeallspice

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Mar 26, 2012
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well you can believe that if you want. But there were huge parts of the plan which were not put in place.. as in offices not opened, translations in Kreyole not available, all that,..

and there have been protests against the Haitan government but they, too, have opened up special offices, drastically reduced fees, offered free birth certificates (why anyone needed a passport is beyond me... a birth certificate should have been enough)

Here is the head of the OIM, which is the international body in charge

Al observar que las reclamaciones en algunos medios de comunicaci?n locales sobre la falta de documentos legales de los haitianos constituyen un obst?culo para la introducci?n del Plan Nacional, Winter se?al?: “Es muy importante reconocer que la Ley de Migraci?n y su reglamento permiten que la identificaci?n los migrantes se realice no s?lo a trav?s de los documentos nacionales de identidad, sino tambi?n que los funcionarios dominicanos conserven la capacidad de verificar y registrar la informaci?n biom?trica de las personas”.

“Esta es una pr?ctica ampliamente utilizada para la gesti?n de la migraci?n y es una parte esencial del equilibrio entre los derechos humanos de las personas y los problemas de seguridad nacional. La OIM considera que el registro biom?trico es el aspecto m?s importante de su apoyo al Plan Nacional de Regularizaci?n de Extranjeros y elogia a los equipos que han logrado registrar a m?s de 70.000 personas en apenas cuatro meses”.

ww.iom.int/cms/es/sites/iom/home/news-and-views/press-briefing-notes/pbn-2014b/pbn-listing/iom-joins-session-on-dominican-r.htmlw

So I think that the DR is going to have to step it up in terms of qualifying people if it wants to satisfy the "international" community.. (read the IMF et al)

Why should the DR step up in qualifying people when they were all in agreement with the
regularization plan when it was presented to them from the beginning? They were aware of the criteria.No complaints then.

Now that the Haitian government is having difficulties in obtaining documentation for most of their
citizens, now they want the DR to grant an amnesty without documentation? They are now trying
to pressure the DR to allow illegal Haitians to by pass the criteria to become regularized.

I hope that the DR sticks to their guns. Let the international community help the Haitian
government with the process of documenting their citizens.

The DR should not have to bend to their will.
 
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exeurodominican

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Providing these people with a small 2 bedroom house means that they will live together with 18-20 persons in there. This will result in no time in many new born Haitians. Do you think this will help the Dominican Republic as they have already enough problems themself?
 
Mar 1, 2009
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It simply makes sense to build them (the houses) THERE, the jobs, the money, the assistance that this really, really big drop in the bucket would make could just be more productive in THAT COUNTRY.

Put it (houses, hospitals, taco bells) THERE not in DR, I used to think Samaritans Purse was a top notch outfit but this just proves how much in cahoots they are with the rest of your friends over at Shenanigans-R US.

Hospitals being built in DR FOR...... UH HUH.

The consulate OVER THERE being attacked and it's staff kidnapped and physically harmed by violent...... YOU KNOW WHO.

The border area being mobbed and with vast amounts in the hundreds of HORDES of illegals from......... you know WHERE.

THEY are abandonining there farms and lands in the countryside en masse because THEIR government is not working and instead of working to FIX IT, THEY take the easiest route, come to DR and use and abuse the system since THEY hear that the Brand NEW SPANKING REGULARIZATION PLAN will help them get documents.

This (no documentation at all, no hospitals, no employment) is THAT COUNTRY'S fault and the fault of the NGO's, they have absconded with the principle of responsability, THESE very astute, complex and complex people are being babied and treated like children.
A lot of this is YOUR fault and YOUR network of Let's Save the Baby Seal's -DOT.ORG groups.
Treat THEM like adults and give THEM some tough love and FORBID, BAN, EMBARGO this constant feeling of VICTIMHOOD that YOU foster in THEM and THEY will rise up.
Continue feeding them baby food and they will keep pooping on you.

The Amnesty is one of the kindest and magnaminous gestures on the part of DR in awhile.
We ceded 5 large towns to Haiti and a vast portion of territory in the 1930's. We GAVE them land and they still screwed it up.
Now because they don't even have a passport they cannot LEGALLY proceed with the process?
Whose fault is that?
Come on, get off the drugs already and come back to reality, you nut.


Haven't ranted in awhile.

LC
 

malko

Campesino !! :)
Jan 12, 2013
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It simply makes sense to build them (the houses) THERE, the jobs, the money, the assistance that this really, really big drop in the bucket would make could just be more productive in THAT COUNTRY.

Put it (houses, hospitals, taco bells) THERE not in DR, I used to think Samaritans Purse was a top notch outfit but this just proves how much in cahoots they are with the rest of your friends over at Shenanigans-R US.

Hospitals being built in DR FOR...... UH HUH.

The consulate OVER THERE being attacked and it's staff kidnapped and physically harmed by violent...... YOU KNOW WHO.

The border area being mobbed and with vast amounts in the hundreds of HORDES of illegals from......... you know WHERE.

THEY are abandonining there farms and lands in the countryside en masse because THEIR government is not working and instead of working to FIX IT, THEY take the easiest route, come to DR and use and abuse the system since THEY hear that the Brand NEW SPANKING REGULARIZATION PLAN will help them get documents.

This (no documentation at all, no hospitals, no employment) is THAT COUNTRY'S fault and the fault of the NGO's, they have absconded with the principle of responsability, THESE very astute, complex and complex people are being babied and treated like children.
A lot of this is YOUR fault and YOUR network of Let's Save the Baby Seal's -DOT.ORG groups.
Treat THEM like adults and give THEM some tough love and FORBID, BAN, EMBARGO this constant feeling of VICTIMHOOD that YOU foster in THEM and THEY will rise up.
Continue feeding them baby food and they will keep pooping on you.

The Amnesty is one of the kindest and magnaminous gestures on the part of DR in awhile.
We ceded 5 large towns to Haiti and a vast portion of territory in the 1930's. We GAVE them land and they still screwed it up.
Now because they don't even have a passport they cannot LEGALLY proceed with the process?
Whose fault is that?
Come on, get off the drugs already and come back to reality, you nut.


Haven't ranted in awhile.

LC

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...........

Haitians flee Haiti for a better life in the Dr, dominicans flee the Dr for a better life in the US or in europe.........

Where are all our dr1 religious zealots when we need them ??
So they can remind us all that us humans are supposed to love one and other like brothers, that we should treat the next person as we would want to be treated........etc, etc........
Or do they only appear for gay bashing and anti-abortion protests ????
 

bronzeallspice

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Mar 26, 2012
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Some are not understanding that the issue with Haitians is unlike any other illegals.
Yes, Dominicans and others flee to the US for a better life but they have documentation
or are able to obtain them once they are there. Many Haitians on the other hand(those
who flee) do not have or possess a birth certificate as an identity, so once they are in
the US it becomes a problem as they have no identity.

The Haitian government has been very irresponsible by not providing them with one.
It seems like the intention was to keep Haitians in Haiti and not allow them to go any
where else.

The US is a very large country and thus can support or sustain a horde of immigrants (legal
and illegal) the DR cannot, already filled to capacity with over 10 million people and growing.

What better life can illegal Haitians have in the DR if they don't even have an identity (birth
certificate).
 
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drstock

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Oct 29, 2010
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President Danilo stated a while go that it was in no means a full amnesty but the news media kept
reporting it as such. He spelled out the criteria necessary in order for illegal foreigners to qualify.

The Haitian government has been delaying or has made it difficult for those Haitians who need
documentation.

The fault is not of the Dominican government who has made it possible for illegal Haitians to get
regularized by making the process free of charge, but the Haitian government who is giving them
a hard time. Many Haitians have protested in front of the Haitian embassy in SD, putting the
blame squarely on their shoulders.

The DR has done all it can, it is up to the Haitian government to do their part, IF they want their
citizens to apply for the regularization plan. If not then it looks like they want them back home.

I have to disagree with this. I, as a gringo, and a Haitian employee of mine are both trying to complete the regularizacion process. We both have the documentation required according to the DR government's literature, and more, but we keep getting sent back to get more. I am employing a lawyer to help me but my employee can't afford this and I think he is on the verge of giving up, which is presumably what the Dominican officials want. In my Haitian employee's case, there is no delay caused by the Haitian government.
 

bronzeallspice

Live everyday like it's your last
Mar 26, 2012
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I have to disagree with this. I, as a gringo, and a Haitian employee of mine are both trying to complete the regularizacion process. We both have the documentation required according to the DR government's literature, and more, but we keep getting sent back to get more. I am employing a lawyer to help me but my employee can't afford this and I think he is on the verge of giving up, which is presumably what the Dominican officials want. In my Haitian employee's case, there is no delay caused by the Haitian government.

From what I read the requirements are very detailed. What other documentation are they asking for that's not on the list?