papers and documents

M

mountainannie

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DR1 news reports today that 70% of Haitians do not have identity papers.

They also report quotes from Haitian sources that the problem with the PLAN was on the Haitian side.- in not giving documents.

What they fail to report is that there were 95% of the Haitians who had some sort of identity document - which - according to the PLAN as written should have been acceptable. It was the decision of the administrators of the PLAN that everyone who applied needed to supply a current passport.

Certainly, presented with having to supply 300,,000 passports within a set time frame, the Haitian government would fail. That could be predicted.

Juan Bolivar Diaz - consistently called a "traitor".. but also awarded the nation's top prize for journalism, says that the issue was not with the identiry documents but with the economic contracts - the work contracts -
El gobierno busca salvar su Plan de Regularizaci?n - El Puerto.com.do
 
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windeguy

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In order to legally reside in the DR I had to have a passport. True that the fail was Haiti's.
 
bienamor

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windeguy said:
In order to legally reside in the DR I had to have a passport. True that the fail was Haiti's.
Click to expand...

unless you slip across the border, they verify that your passport is update. coming across clandestinely not so much.

What kind of identity document did they have annie? They don't have bank accounts, cedula, no haitian documents WHAT
What they fail to report is that there were 95% of the Haitians who had some sort of identity document
 
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rubio_higuey

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White didn't the Haiti's friends such as St. Vincent, St. Lucia and other so-called countries that now criticize DR (and had been doing it for as long as I remember) lend their hand to Haitian government in the from of passport printing machines and staffing to help process those 300,000+ passport applications? One would think that being so good friends of Haiti they would want to help them in a situation like this. But criticizing the DR from an air-conditioned office thousand miles away is slightly bit easier and you don't even have to move your a$$. I am just wondering, why doesn't the Governor of Puerto Rico criticize the DR as well? I guess he knows better than that!
 
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ju10prd

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Give them such documents perhaps they can then vote in the upcoming elections in Haiti. Only c 1 million voted last time and a bunch of unhappy Haitians with passports swings the election and rids the country of Martelly and co.

Possible reason???
 
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rubio_higuey

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Interesting angle I didn't think of.

But if they are citizens and have papers (e.g. Haitian ID card, if there is a thing of that sort) they could register and vote at a Haitian consulate or Embassy (law permitting) even without a passport. And then, if they could not vote at the embassy, in such case even if they had passport they would need to cross back to Haiti to vote there; and I am not sure many would be willing to do so (risking not being able to come back). So either way, interesting angle but probably not the true cause.
 
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ju10prd

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MA posted the other day that the guys behind the Facebook campaign to halt tourism to DR were linked (the lawyer) of past Haiti president.

No we are told that 2m Haitians live outside Haiti worldwide and have lobbies in many countries yet only c1 million from the 10 plus 2 million vote.
 
NALs

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ju10prd said:
Give them such documents perhaps they can then vote in the upcoming elections in Haiti. Only c 1 million voted last time and a bunch of unhappy Haitians with passports swings the election and rids the country of Martelly and co.

Possible reason???
Click to expand...
Could be, but many people think the election that Martelly 'won' was rigged.

Here is an interesting conversation (in Spanish) that took place last month in SD with Jean Bertin, one of the presidential candidates in Haiti's upcoming elections. They briefly touch the subject regarding elections in Haiti and even criticize Martelly for his inability to effectively govern Haiti. Bertin went as far as to say that you can invite Martelly to do a concert in Punta Cana and that it would be fantastic, but you can't ask Martelly to document his people because he doesn't know how to do it right.

[video=youtube;vii5FYvHje4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vii5FYvHje4[/video]
 
M

mountainannie

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I posted the link to the article on the documents, as I usually do. I do not know how Juan Bolivar Diaz got hold of these numbers, any more than one knows how Picardo knows what he knows.

But- it is just to be clear that there were Haitians who had other papers - birth certificates, perhaps voter registration cards, exprired passports.. who were not allowed to use them to registered.

Yes, certainly there were major scandals over the election of Martelly. Huge accusations of bribery. Kickbacks for contracts.. that sort of thing.

Haiti regularlly places among the top five most corrupt states in the world - which is saying something.. considering the compqny in that list ...https://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results

I believe that the last time there was really an effort to get people in Haiti documented was back in 2006- which was done with help from the EU - and they reported being pretty happy with the results - something like 80% documented -- with voter registration cards.. for the election of Preval.
 
M

mountainannie

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El viceministro Gonz?lez reconoce que muy pocos de los solicitantes han podido completar los requisitos, especialmente las condiciones laborales y socio-econ?micas, que incluyen certificaciones de empleo, propiedades o contratos de alquiler de muebles o inmuebles y hasta cuentas bancarias. El 95 por ciento present? por lo menos un documento de identidad, acta de nacimiento c?dula o pasaporte, como establece el plan. Pero esa misma proporci?n no ha podido completar los requerimientos socio-econ?micos.

El problema principal ha sido la poca colaboraci?n de los empleadores. Lo reconoci? el funcionario, quien dijo que apenas en las ?ltimas dos semanas los grandes empleadores agropecuarios y de la construcci?n hab?an mostrado inter?s en ayudar a regularizar sus empleados. Una excepci?n hab?a sido el grupo Vicini, con dos ingenios en operaci?n, que hasta contrat? abogados para ayudar a sus trabajadores haitianos.

El gobierno busca salvar su Plan de Regularizaci?n | Noticias SIN

not that it matters - since the narrative here in the DR is pretty set already

Just wanted to note that there was dissent

evidently -Vice Minister Gonzalez?
 
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ju10prd

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NALs said:
Could be, but many people think the election that Martelly 'won' was rigged.
Click to expand...

It is quite remarkable comparing the last Presidential election in Haiti (2011/2012) and DR (2012)

In Haiti, just under 1.1m voted out of a registered 4.7m ........just less than 23%

In DR, 4.5m voted out of a registered electorate of 6.5m........70%

The level of voter turnout in Haiti is appalling and makes one wonder about deliberate attempts to restrict voting by the ruling elite. Is the 4.7m registered really true?

( no need to suggest it is conditions in that nation....look at some of the countries listed as having better turnouts than USA on this link 58 countries with better voter turnout than the United States - Quartz )
 
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GWOZOZO

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ju10prd said:
Give them such documents perhaps they can then vote in the upcoming elections in Haiti. Only c 1 million voted last time and a bunch of unhappy Haitians with passports swings the election and rids the country of Martelly and co.

Possible reason???
Click to expand...

Not quite,

Haiti had massive turnouts in previous elections, especially for Aristide.

The majority were simply not interested in the US forced selection of Martelly.

When they like a candidate, they come out in vote. When they suspect BS, they stay home.
 
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ju10prd

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Yep.....Martelly the OAS candidate.

Now it is beginning to add up. (I see Aristade had just under 51% his last time and that is decent enough.)

Those that cry foul are those that are largely to blame for the misery and failed development of a nation.
 
G

GWOZOZO

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ju10prd said:
Yep.....Martelly the OAS candidate.

Now it is beginning to add up. (I see Aristade had just under 51% his last time and that is decent enough.)

Those that cry foul are those that are largely to blame for the misery and failed development of a nation.
Click to expand...

50.16% in the 1990 election

78.29% in the 2000 election
 
G

GWOZOZO

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NALs said:
Could be, but many people think the election that Martelly 'won' was rigged.

Here is an interesting conversation (in Spanish) that took place last month in SD with Jean Bertin, one of the presidential candidates in Haiti's upcoming elections.
Click to expand...

lol..lol Jean Bertin is an idiot and could not win a mayorship anywhere in Haiti.

He is the father of Sarodji Bertin (former miss haiti now living in DR) and ex-husband to Sarodji's anti-haitian terrorist mother.

The mother was executed by patriotic Haitians.
 
NALs

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ju10prd said:
It is quite remarkable comparing the last Presidential election in Haiti (2011/2012) and DR (2012)

In Haiti, just under 1.1m voted out of a registered 4.7m ........just less than 23%

In DR, 4.5m voted out of a registered electorate of 6.5m........70%

The level of voter turnout in Haiti is appalling and makes one wonder about deliberate attempts to restrict voting by the ruling elite. Is the 4.7m registered really true?

( no need to suggest it is conditions in that nation....look at some of the countries listed as having better turnouts than USA on this link 58 countries with better voter turnout than the United States - Quartz )
Click to expand...
That's another issue all together, but what I was refering to is what has been said in the chisme vine. There's a general belief among Dominicans that give some following to Haitian politics that Martelly wasn't popular even among the minority that voted. Mrs Manigat should had been Haiti's leader. In addition to that, she would had broken the tradition of males leading that country by becoming the first woman to reach the highest office over there.

If true, I do wonder how Martelly 'won.'

Going back to what you were saying, in a way every Haitian government has been illegitimate because for whatever the reasons are and have been, most Haitians are simply excluded from the political process. The Haitian lower class is the most disenfranchised people in the Caribbean, perhaps in the Western Hemisphere, and definitely among the most disenfranchised in the world.
 
bob saunders

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