Timesharing

regardless where, timeshare is always
a bad deal.
you will loose money.
stay away from it.

None exists, unfortunately. A buyer of timeshare in the D.R. usually signs a one page personal contract with the hotel owner, or even sometimes just with the hotel operator. He/she has no rights "in rem" ("over the thing", that is, over the property).

What does this mean? Let's assume the hotel owner has a mortgage with a bank and defaults for whatever reason. The bank will foreclose on the property and the poor timeshare "owner"would be left with no property to "timeshare" He will have a recourse vs. the hotel owner but this gentleman will by then have no money! Another situation: the hotel owner may just sell the property without mentioning the existence of timeshares. The third party purchaser is not obligated to honor the timeshare contracts since they are not recorded on the property records.

In other countries, the timeshare owner has a recorded right over the property which must be acknowledged by all.

timeshares can work if.....

If the developer can demonstrate that there is no indebtedness, there is therefore no chance that a lender can foreclose. This format of timesharing exists in the DR. Interestingly, the pricing of resort timesharing can be so favorable in the DR considering its very high "exchange power" due to the Caribbean location that, even if the whole property should fall into the ocean after five years, most vacationers will have gotten their money's worth. To issue a blanket statement like "you will lose money" demonstrates a lack of understanding of timesharing. No matter how you vacation, you are going to spend money. Timesharing, when done correctly, redirects your money into a membership that gets you a condo instead of a hotel room, and, in the case of a DR timeshare, can leverage you into a much more expensive condo resort in other locations. If you are invited into a timesharing presentation by a tout on the beach who says "Just go see it, stay 20 minutes, and I will get money to feed my kids." then you should run the other way. However, there are several well-thought out timeshare programs in the DR that will provide what you want. Try www.sunsetresorts.com, a Canadian company with a well-established, well-priced Cabarete property.

Don't think so...

This is not my idea of a timeshare...you are selling vacation weeks with no apparent legal claim to the property. At 300 a week it does beat some hotels but as friend Fabio pointed out...what protection is there if you go belly up?

You put down your weekly rate but not your membership cost.

El Jefe--are you referring to Sunset?

If so, you may not have read far enough through the website. But, nonetheless, throughout the world there are various formats of "timesharing". The two main ones are "Right to Use" which is effectively a lease with finite end, and "Deeded" which conveys ownership in perpetuity. Even the vaunted Marriott Vacation Club does not convey ownership in perpetuity at all its very expensive and very fine "timeshares". It depends on what the local legal structures, among other things, will allow. In the DR and in many Caribbean and all Mexican destinations, there is no legal right in perpetuity conveyed since it is impossible to do so. If you or anyone absolutely wants to own "deeded" timeshare--and there are pluses and minuses to each format--you might have to buy it in the US for 3x the DR price and exchange back into the DR to use properties on the island. Doesn't make much sense to me. But you cannot say that a Right to Use format does not convey legal rights to access the property because it does.

If Sunset should be sold or go bankrupt what would be my rights? And how enforceable would they be from the US?

timeshare - a scheme

How can you not call this a scheme , where the investor is bound to loose.

but its a goldmine for the promoter.

Typically timeshare people sell one condo 52 times

you probably have to pay over 5000 dollars for the right of one week

may be more for popular weeks.

Those people are receiving more than 255 000 dollars per unit.

the unit cost probably 70 000 to built.

So the time share should have cost you only 1500 maximum.

Then after you paid that exorbitant price , they dare to ask for another 300 to 500

dollar maintenance.

So if you have to pay more then 1500 dollars for your timeshare

and a 100 dollar cap on fees guaranteed.

, you have lost money already


Ask anybody if they ever made money on the resale of their timeshare..

I have never met any.

Its just bad news allover for the buyer

Has anyone tried setting up a "private" timeshare arrangement (for lack of a better term), where a group of people get together and buy a condo together and make an agreement for sharing the use of it? That way, you'd all be equal owners of the property, not a client of a company. Would this work?

Timeshare 101

If any promoter tells you timeshare is an investment that will increase in value, run the other way. It is a way to guarantee pre-paid vacations, a way to commit yourself to going on vacation (for the workaholics out there), a way to expand your lodging from a hotel room to a condo for roughly the same money.

If you are a vacationer who prefers shopping for the best last minute bargains and will stay in budget properties, don't even consider a purchase of timeshare anywhere.

As for the "bankruptcy" scenario, when there is no mortgage on a property, there is no impatient lender with a right to foreclose. All there are is operating costs, which are covered on a pro rata basis by the timeshare owners. So there is no likelihood of bankruptcy, despite how scary that prospect may seem.

As for the "scheme", Paul, there isn' t enough room to address all of the reasoning, but suffice it to say that there are many more marketing and sales costs that must be recouped in a timeshare scenario than from a "whole ownership condo" or a hotel--we all wish there weren't, but, frankly, as long as there are people like yourself who haven't yet been fully educated (and I say this respectfully)and who are locked into generalizations and the ancient history of timeshare scams of decades ago, that marketing/education process is going to continue to take time and money.

But once a timeshare is sold, guess what! The manager/developer no longer has to incur advertising nor travel agents costs that must be passed along to the vacationer and the operating costs go down. Management must be crisp and responsive because the resort is now populated by people with an ownership stake and who are demanding good service and accountability. All of which bodes well for the individuals who bought the timeshares.

Truthfully this board isn't the place to go into this any further. There are scams in timeshare in the DR, yes. For example, Rhumba Heavens in Playa Dorado is closed, and who knows what is happening to those individuals who purchased a timeshare interest there last year. I have no idea if they had a lender breathing down their necks, or just what happened there.

The DR is still a country with a developing legal system vis a vis this industry. But specifically Sunset Resorts for one has been a major presence in Cabarete for a long time now--and they enjoy a good reputation in their home office in Winnipeg. If they had not been delivering the goods for their largely Canadian clientele, there would have been a major uprising up there (Manitoba) because they are so visible.

I do not and did not intend this to be a commercial for them, but there are some basic truisms about how to make resort timesharing work for all concerned, and that company seems to have figured them out and delivered them.

You will all have good lives with or without an ownership in timesharing anywhere--but a little education is a good thing. If you are inclined to disbelieve everything--rational or otherwise--about timesharing--I understand that. The industry made its bed, now it has to sleep in it. But there are some operators around with everyones' best interests in mind. You just have to find them.

to jjsk re: "private timesharing"

indeed, that has been done. But most people like the idea of putting the "timeshare" into the exchange network so they can use other destinations. If you and friends want to share equity on one home in any vacation spot, lawyers can do that. It just hasn't been all that popular. Interestingly, developers have created fractional ownership that does just what you describe--four individuals (strangers to each other) share the ownership of an entire condo. But the problem is that they must adhere to a rotating use schedule that forces them to each own the rights to 13 non-consecutive weeks. Surely friends could share one place and work out whatever schedule pleases them--but frankly friendships are hard enough to maintain without the stress of working out the vagaries of this!!

Let?s try to get back to the original thrust of this thread: the protection afforded a normal timeshare buyer in the Dominican Republic.

My point is that the only effective legal protection is to have his rights recorded (?registered?) at the appropriate Registry of Titles. Registration grants the buyer rights ?in rem? which cannot be ignored by a third party. Lack of registration, which is standard procedure in the D.R., leaves the buyer no recourse except against the other contracting party which of course may become insolvent (if Enron and K-mart can go bankrupt, anybody can) or may not have the best of intentions.

How do you get you rights registered on a property under Dominican law? A purchase is recorded by filing at the Registry a deed of purchase, the Certificate of Title of the owner and evidence of payment of the required transfer taxes; a mortgage, by filing at the Registry the mortgage agreement, the title of the owner and evidence of payment of the required transfer taxes; a lease, by filing at the Registry the lease, the title of the owner and evidence of payment of the required transfer taxes; an easement, by filing at the Registry the easement agreement, the title of the owner and evidence of purchase of the required stamps; and so on. In each case, the buyer, mortgage creditor or lessee obtains from the Registrar a Certificate of Title of the Owner (or Creditor, or Lessee) which acknowledges his particular rights over the property and is enforceable ?erga omnes?, a Latin phrase used a lot in Dominican Land Law meaning ?with respect to or against everybody".

Why aren?t timesharing contracts recorded? For two main reasons:

1) Because it?s easier for the timeshare sellers to just give the buyer a one-page piece of paper in English and be done with it. The buyer usually doesn?t know better. Sometimes the seller is also in the same position of blissful ignorance. The law requires that to be recorded any agreement must, among other things, be drafted in Spanish and have the signatures of the party authenticated by a Notary Public.

2) Because ?timesharing? per se is not a recordable right in our legal system. I don?t believe it even existed when our Land Law was last modified in the late 1940's.

A little legal imagination or creativity, however, can go a long way to alleviate the lack of legal protection of the timeshare buyer. Possibilities I have used, notwithstanding how cumbersome they may be, have involved: a) doing a special lease with all the appropriate timesharing provisions; b) doing a ?usage? agreement (?derecho de uso?) which is an archaic contract still in our Civil Code and making the necessary modifications. Both contracts can be recorded without any problems and the expenses involved are not high.

As for Abe's comment, for the registration of timesharing it's not relevant to distinguish between "Right to Use" timesharing and "Deeded" timesharing. In both cases, the buyer should have his rights (be it as an owner or as a lessor) recorded at the Registry of Titles.

Luis, regarding "Lease Back", it has been done in the North Coast for years, As a matter of fact, the first hotels in Playa Dorada, such as Dorado Naco, had the system in place since the early 1980's. The buyer buys the property. He's the owner of the condo. Then, he leases it back to the Operator for x number of years. The system is legally sound.

As for property taxes (called "IVSS" taxes in the D.R.), they are applied only to houses or condos worth more than RD$1,400,000 pesos (approx. US$83,000). This figure is adjusted for inflation annually. The tax rate is 0.25% of appraised value per year.

Luis--you would then own it.

One of the biggest complaints about timesharing is the sales process--in most cases a stranger asks you within two hours to commit to a vacation program that you had never heard of before someone offered you a bottle of rum and a tee-shirt to "come visit our hotel so you could think about coming here next year".
You will be pressured into buying that day by every timeshare developer in the world, including Marriott and other big names, so be ready for that. Your legal protection re: a cooling off period varies depending on where you are and a few other factors. In the DR, there is no cooling off period and your money will be spent. Psychologically though, if you really want to vacation every year and you don't have friends who will put you up, your money is already spent just as surely as if you paid for a timeshare membership. Now it's up to you to make that money go further by choosing a program that will do that for you.

If you believe that you could make that choice and then un-make it much later, no one in the world, including Disney, Marriott, etc. will refund your money.

Simply stated, if you are really shopping for a timeshare, (and more and more people are doing that, rather than buying one "by accident") do not do anything that you fear will cause you more anxiety than you had before you heard about timesharing. Relax and be certain that you really want an annual (or more frequent) vacation, that the property is either a place that you love or has enormous trading power on the exchange network (which the Caribbean has) and that you can afford the cost of purchase and of annual maintenance. Be realistic--if the prospect of paying either of those scares you, you are probably not going to be able to enjoy annual vacations no matter what you do.

This is by no means an invitation to just hand over your money to the first developer who gives you "a great deal". Be thoughtful, but be honest with yourself too.

Tell me friend Guzman, is it true you must be a resident to sue? So if I have this little piece of paper and I'm not a resident, and they break that "contract" I have no legal recourse, true?

Time share rights

Nil:
I purchased a time share with RCI properties years ago and was guaranteed week 3 (third week in January) for $5000 US, the only rights I had was the ability to sell my week or transfer the sharing contract to someone else in exchange for whatever deal I could make. Let me tell you after using it for 3 years when interest rates were above 10% I was losing money. $550 US per year lost in interest that could have been accumulated if banked somewhere else. This interest plus my cost to fly to destination would more than pay for a good AI, and I don't have to buy food, cook it or buy my booze. Put my share up for sale, tough sell got $3000 US as best offer. Loss $2000 US plus $1650 US (not including compounding interest). I learned my lesson but not quick enough, the sales pitch of investments gaining value is just that a sales pitch. Oh by the way I still have my cheap blankets but drank the bottles of rum.
I have some swamp land for sale in Forida anyone interested.
AI is the way for me, lesson learned the hard way.

Consumer Protection Department

Luis said:

That I wanted to clearfy Abe......so I'll simply lose my money without any recourse? or someone to address to??, a kind of Consumer Protection Department for instance??
Suggestions anybody?

Click to expand...

yes you simply loose your money.
Consumer Protection Department is not existing here.
the creation of which with the power to act
would be a huge step in the right direction here.
I would not hold my breath. This is not a priority
for the goverment or for dominican society.