Any legal advice to help my friend

joselowe · Apr 25, 2016

One of my close friends lives in Santo Domingo He was born in Italy to an Italian mother and a Dominican father (who he doesn't know) but he is clearly Dominican. He moved to the DR as a kid with his mother and was raised there, went to high school there and even started at college there without paperwork.

He eventually had to leave the university due to the fact that he had no birth certificate or any paperwork. Now he's pretty much stuck there with no paperwork from anywhere. His mother claims she's helping him, but she hadn't done anything.

I've heard that this happens in the DR all the time especially with Haitians with no paperwork. So how can I help him, especially if I want to bring him to the US?

But even if I can't do that how can I help him get the paperwork in the DR?

I would appreciate any advice

Virgo · Apr 25, 2016

joselowe said:
One of my close friends lives in Santo Domingo He was born in Italy to an Italian mother and a Dominican father (who he doesn't know) but he is clearly Dominican. He moved to the DR as a kid with his mother and was raised there, went to high school there and even started at college there without paperwork.

He eventually had to leave the university due to the fact that he had no birth certificate or any paperwork. Now he's pretty much stuck there with no paperwork from anywhere. His mother claims she's helping him, but she hadn't done anything.

But even if I can't do that how can I help him get the paperwork in the DR?

I would appreciate any advice

Sorry but there are problems with your story. Why doesn't he have Italian citizenship and a passport?
His Italian mother should be able to get him Italian papers (even if he hadn't been born in Italy).
And it is far easier to travel with an Italian passport (which is in fact, an European Union passport) than with a Dominican passport.

As an Italian, he would be fully entitled to attend any Dominican university as a foreigner.

If he wants to have DUAL Italian/Dominican citizenship, obviously he would have to PROVE that his father is Dominican.

Just walking into a government office and claiming that he has a Dominican father wouldn't do it. What would stop anybody from doing the same?
I suppose it would be the same in most if not all countries. You have to be able to PROVE you qualify (for whatever paper or program it is). That makes sense, right?

dv8 · Apr 25, 2016

does he have italian passport/citizenship? as italian he can travel to the states without a visa. if he does not have italian passport he should contact nearest embassy/consulate (or wait until the embassy in SD reopens) and apply for the passport using his mother's paperwork.

question number two is a status of his italian mother, does she have dominican residency? it would help him to obtain residency for himself as well and become a naturalized citizen through regular process (without taking into the account the father at all).

it's really something he has to work on with his family.

CristoRey · Apr 25, 2016

joselowe said:
He was born in Italy to an Italian mother

Italy is not a third world country like the DR. They document the birth of their citizens.
He shouldn?t have much trouble receiving an Italian passport. From there he can easily
visit most countries across the globe without a visa.

SKY · Apr 25, 2016

This might belong in a different forum. I won't say which one yet.

Matilda · Apr 25, 2016

I have recently helped some children with American mother and Dominican father do exactly this. The easiest solution, assuming he want to continue to study in the DR as a Dominican is to get a copy of his Italian birth certificate which one hopes names his Dominican father. He then takes that to the Civil Registry at the JCE with a copy of his mother's passport and his father's cedula - assuming he can get a copy of it. The Civil Registry will issue him with a Dominican birth certificate and with that he can get a Dominican cedula and a Dominican passport should he require it. The original birth certificate will need to be translated and apostilled. The information is on the jce website here. http://jce.gob.do/Registro-Civil/Pr...-de-dominicano-instrumentada-en-el-extranjero

Matilda

HUG · Apr 25, 2016

joselowe said:
His mother claims she's helping him, but she hadn't done anything.

There is nothing you can do if his mother is not willing to help and he doesn't have a birth certificate. You are working off the fact that he said he was born in Italy, and does it sound right that his mother wouldn't be helping if she could. That sounds a little bit like a cop out explanation of the reality to me.

If he is going to go down the new claim for Italian citizenship then I don't fancy his chances, they are making it almost impossible for anyone to get into Europe these days, even if they belong there, after the invasion of Islam. They will bend over backwards to make it very difficult before giving him his passport.

Going off my natural bullsh1tometer based on living around Dominicans for so long I'd call him on the half arsed reasons. It will be very easy to know by asking him some very simple questions about where he was born exactly. This info even if he was too young to remember would be easily gotten from his mother and then you can find out for yourself by checking up, firstly if the place mentioned even exists..

Virgo · Apr 25, 2016

CristoRey said:
Italy is not a third world country like the DR. They document the birth of their citizens.
He shouldn?t have much trouble receiving an Italian passport. From there he can easily
visit most countries across the globe without a visa.

The DR fully documents the birth of its citizens. Of course the parents must do their part.

If the parents themselves 'know' they are Dominicans but have no way to prove it, that would be a problem ANYWHERE.

No country will consider you a citizen if you cannot prove it just because you walk into a government office and tell them that "you know" you are a citizen there (even if you spoke the language with no foreign accent).

Anyway, it is extremely unlikely that an Italian woman would have a child in Italy (even to a foreign father) and wouldn't do the paper work to get him proper identity papers. Obviously they'd be useful for multiple reasons.

Virgo · Apr 25, 2016

Matilda said:
I have recently helped some children with American mother and Dominican father do exactly this. The easiest solution, assuming he want to continue to study in the DR as a Dominican is to get a copy of his Italian birth certificate which one hopes names his Dominican father. He then takes that to the Civil Registry at the JCE with a copy of his mother's passport and his father's cedula - assuming he can get a copy of it. The Civil Registry will issue him with a Dominican birth certificate and with that he can get a Dominican cedula and a Dominican passport should he require it. The original birth certificate will need to be translated and apostilled. The information is on the jce website here. http://jce.gob.do/Registro-Civil/Pr...-de-dominicano-instrumentada-en-el-extranjero

I am curious to know would they know that the Dominican man named in a foreign birth certificate as the father IS actually the father. Doesn't the father have to acknowledge paternity in some official DOMINICAN document?

What would stop any foreign woman (say Haitian) from declaring in her country (say Haiti) that a Dominican man she chooses (having gotten his ID info somehow) is the father (without he even knowing)?
There must be some control, I suppose.

Matilda · Apr 25, 2016

As long as the name is on the birth certificate and it is a Dominican and a copy of the cedula is provided that is all that is needed. In the same way as here, everyone is allowed to have their birth registered according to what it says on the birth certificate. No need for anything else.

Matilda

joselowe · Apr 25, 2016

Thanks guys for the help. It seems like most of the work needs to be done in Italy as opposed to the DR.

From what I've gathered from him, his mother has been promising for years that she'll get his paperwork. At this point he's getting depressed and I feel like I can't help, I want to help but without his mothers compliance it's damn near impossible.

I think his mother is a Dominican citizen she later married and had kids with a Dominican man, who she is still married to, she also has an older son in the US.

So he pretty much just has to wait on his mother to get the Italian paperwork

Expat13 · Apr 25, 2016

joselowe said:
Thanks guys for the help. It seems like most of the work needs to be done in Italy as opposed to the DR.

From what I've gathered from him, his mother has been promising for years that she'll get his paperwork. At this point he's getting depressed and I feel like I can't help, I want to help but without his mothers compliance it's damn near impossible.

I think his mother is a Dominican citizen she later married and had kids with a Dominican man, who she is still married to, she also has an older son in the US.

So he pretty much just has to wait on his mother to get the Italian paperwork

We have now definitely identified the problem! The solution may come but in "Dominican Time" probably 'manana'

KateP · Apr 25, 2016

Has he tried to get a copy of his birth certificate from Italy? Even the DR offers the option of requesting certificates online...

Virgo · Apr 25, 2016

Matilda said:
As long as the name is on the birth certificate and it is a Dominican and a copy of the cedula is provided that is all that is needed.
In the same way as here, everyone is allowed to have their birth registered according to what it says on the birth certificate.
No need for anything else.

Yeah, but how does a father's name gets put in a birth certificate? That is the issue.

Can the mother just choose any man she likes (provided she has basic ID info for him)?

She could choose a very rich man, or just one from a country from which she wants to get migratory benefits.

There must be a control.

If the birth certificate is from a foreign country it is obviously a bigger problem, when the local (Dominican) father hasn't himself officially acknowledged he is the father.

Virgo · Apr 25, 2016

KateP said:
Has he tried to get a copy of his birth certificate from Italy? Even the DR offers the option of requesting certificates online...

Assuming the Italian mother didn't do it herself when she gave birth to him in Italy.

And by the way, how did she manage to get a child from Italy into the DR with NO Identity papers from either country????

the gorgon · Apr 25, 2016

Virgo said:
Assuming the Italian mother didn't do it herself when she gave birth to him in Italy.

And by the way, how did she manage to get a child from Italy into the DR with NO Identity papers from either country????

that is the 64,000 dollar question.

Expat13 · Apr 25, 2016

the gorgon said:
Virgo said:

Assuming the Italian mother didn't do it herself when she gave birth to him in Italy.

And by the way, how did she manage to get a child from Italy into the DR with NO Identity papers from either country????

Click to expand...

that is the 64,000 dollar question.

Gordon, easy, this is the DR. I flew in once on new years eve approx. 11:30pm. The airport was almost empty. I wasn't a resident at that time so passport stamps were important to me. Nobody working customs gates, nobody! I went through where the final customs spot and one guy just waving everyone through but he didn't have the authority nor an entry stamp. He said it will be ok you don't need one. I could have been anybody from anywhere carrying whatever, it would not have mattered. Of course 4 mths later when I left I had to pay a hefty exit fee as could not prove my last entry. And of course it was my fault (always the gringos fault). Laws are made to observed not necessarily enforced.

Bronxboy · Apr 25, 2016

Quotes are getting out of hand again.

Please make sure quotes are closed before posting. Here you go:

Virgo said:

Assuming the Italian mother didn't do it herself when she gave birth to him in Italy.

And by the way, how did she manage to get a child from Italy into the DR with NO Identity papers from either country????[/QUO

Click to expand...

Virgo said:
Add TE]

Virgo · Apr 25, 2016

Expat13 said:
Gordon, easy, this is the DR.

You obligatory post disparaging/blaming the DR for whatever it is that happened.

A far more plausible explanation is that the events didn't happen as described.

Did you bother to think that there were also EXIT controls (especially when minors are involved) presumably applied in Italy? Even airlines have to do some checkings before allowing people to board (they may be fined if found negligent).

CristoRey · Apr 25, 2016

Virgo said:
Anyway, it is extremely unlikely that an Italian woman would
have a child in Italy (even to a foreign father) and wouldn't do the paper work to get him proper identity papers.

Thanks for clarifying.

Any legal advice to help my friend

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