I'm sick and tired of poor people!

Yeah, what the hell, the sharks need to eat, too, and they -the sharks- are an endangered species.

More to the point, there was a Op-Ed Editorial a good while ago in the La Informaci?n paper of Santiago. Part of it, as I recall, was about how the phrase: "Soy un pobre padre ? familia." has been used as an excuse for multiple, generally incorrect, if not outright illegal activities.

This whole thing is the crux of Urban Development and Developmental Policy in general. Is a Rudy Giuliani-type policy needed? Frankly, I think it would work here. There is enough corruption available so that the party hacks that would run it would get enough kickbacks to make it worth their while, and these folks would get work.

I totally agree that the encrouchment of the Park are a crime and a shame on this and other governments.

And while your post will attract a lot of heat, unless the people who post have been there and seen these places, they really should be quite for a while and wait and see how this pans out.

I think that you might have not been quite so vehement in saying you hate the poor. Rather that you hate what a lot of people are doing and saying that they are poor as an excuse...

Anyway, DUCK!!

HB

poverty culture.

Sometimes, the poor people are poor because they have poor mentality. Like they say, you can take a poor out of a Barrio (or ghetto) but you can't take the barrio out of him.
This is the case of 2 persons that I know. One girl lives in Puerto Plata, in a very poor road less neighborhood. She was lucky enough to find a rich husband when she was dancing nude in a strip bar. She also happened to be a hooker. The old man married her and took her to Switzerland. While living the high life in Switzerland she brought back enough money to build the most beautiful house in the same ghetto where she grew up in. I mean, she could have bought a nice house in any decent neighborhood of Puerto Plata but she chose to live in her own barrio. Her sister told me that in richer neighborhoods people really don't care who you are but in her ghetto, she is the fortune queen.
Once a hooker, always a hooker; that was her case. She soon made a baby with the Swiss and made sure that she would have an income coming in for the rest of her life. While she came to puerto plata to visit her family, she continued to maintain her chulo (pimp). She later left the swiss and joined other dominican girls in a strip club. She turned back into a hooker by dancing in strip bars in Switzerland. I was told that a lot of poor dominicans go there to dance in strip clubs. Her sister (was the girlfriend of a German friend of mine at the time) told me that most of the girls who end up in Switzerland end up doing the "old profession". This was the main reason behind limiting Swiss visas to single young Dominican girls.

To make the long story short: the girl had a magnificent chance to change her life around and to live a respectable life as a wife of a well-to-do man but what does she chose to do? She leaves him to join a strip club. Later comes back with money to move back into her barrio to live like a ghetto queen.

The other girl is a very nice by extremely naive girl from a poor neighborhood in Santiago. She is smart enough to go to university and also attend English learning school, to improve her language skills. She is very attractive and knows how to carry herself. What I am trying to say is that she has the potential to find a man from middle to upper middle class family.
Instead, what does she choose? She starts to date a young kid from her barrio. A kid who is younger than her in age and acts and looks like a motoconcho type person. The guy rides around in a pasola (scooter) and hangs around with other loafers of the street. I just couldn't find out what she saw in him. I tried to talk sense into her but I found myself talking to a wall. Eventually she grew out of him but is boyfriend less at the moment. I tried to take her to nicer places but she just didn't feel comfortable with better classed girls. In fact, the richer girls looked down at her, as she was so timid. She wouldn't talk, nor eat or even look at anyone's eyes in a social gathering. She would always find reasons to get herself out of the place and back to her home. I simply couldn't take it anymore and I was certain that I couldn't change her mentality in a short time. I tried but I guess, you just can't make a racehorse out of a donkey.
Anyway, her father, who lives in NYC, sent her a huge amount of cash to be saved up in the bank. That money was available to be put to good use. I suggested fixing her house (tin leaky roof) or even buying a better house in a nicer area. Instead, she wanted a car. I suggested a used car for the neighborhood because a nicer car just wouldn't be safe in the area and not to mention she was not an expert driver.
In a week, she shows up at my house with a surprise. She took all the money and bought herself a new car, a brand new 2001 Peugeot. Can you believe that? A 2001 Peugeot. Not a Toyota, Honda or any other reliable car but a Peugeot? God, I nearly crashed my head on the wall when I saw that. 385, 000 pesos spent to buy a new car? Cash?
To make the long story, her car is proudly parked in front of her tin roofed house. She drives her car in pride and thinks she is too good for the ghetto boys now. Now she calls me on regular bases to pick me up but I know the girl is not for me. We just don't think alike.
This proves my point over and over again: You can take the poor out of a ghetto but you can't take the ghetto out of the poor.
Poverty culture rules.... in ghetto that is.

When will the government stop shedding tears for "the poor" and get this house in order.

Click to expand...

Do you really think your government sheds tears for the poor? The only time they care about anything is when they stand something to gain, o si algo le puede entrar al bolsillo. Your 'house' will be in order once a system is put in place that *truly* assists the poor and stops the rich from taking advantage.

P.S. I don't think you'd be happier as a "professional" pobre - a couple of thousand pesos every once in a while would not make up for the rats, disease, and misery. And your career as a sanki panki might not be as fulfilling as you think...

I don't know what's wrong with middle to upper class people...Poor people don't have access to a good education -which is the basis for everything in life- therefore they can't better themselves, and they're just going to do what they gotta do to feed they're kids and what not. How about people get together as a society and try to address the basics of the problem, the public school system, give the kids of the poor, uneducated, lower class people a better education and in the long run we'll all have a better place to live. But then again, the "haves" aren't really thinking about the well being of the "have not" because they still need their "chopa", and other people to look down upon.

TW, you were saved by the bell...

When I read the thread subject I quickly pulled my Colt 45's quite like female Hopalon Cassidy and came ready to shoot you. No need for it. I hate the way you worded it but you make some quite valid points. I define myself as "poor" when asked, but to be sincere, I know it is unfair to compare myself with those less blessed by fortune.

It is true that one feels dispair when seeing how money is invested in people and they just don't seem to be doing anything to better their lifes. I've complained how our politicians don't care about middle class. We are not even mentioned in their speeches, we simply don't exist. "Housing for the poor" they promise, but they simply don't remember that the ones who drive the building industry are not the poor, but us, the ones who take loans at neck-slashing rates from our blood sucking banks.

I could go on and on and on. But... Sometime ago I was talking to someone who critizicised a young woman from a poor neighborhood and labeled her as "dumb". As I explained to him, we shouldn't take too much credit for being what we are. They are not to blame for all of what they are. I cannot take credit for haven gotten an education, after all had not my dear parents have the resources for paying for my education I would have probably studied in a public school. Had not my parents given me the education I received at home then I wouldn't probably feel the desire to improve myself. I cannot even take credit for whatever level of intelligence I may have, after all, I can't take credit for my genes.

Now, the point I'm trying to make is this: Yes, you are somewhat right, but we shouldn't be to harsh in our judgements. They don't know there is a better way of life. I suggest you "addopt" someone and instill in that person a desire for being a better person and somewhat sponsor that person's education. It's not necessarily about giving money to that person, your time, attention and wise words are worth much more. We can only change the world one person at a time.

Goverments do so much to buy votes

the DR and the US as well do so many stupid things to buy votes from the massive voting power of the poor...

If only more was pushed into education of the poor, they wouldnt make such terrible decisions in the first place, and see through the bought votes and the short sighted decisions...

Poor Vs. Everyone else

Now I don't want to sound rude, but what do you know about being poor, TW? Have you ever gone hungry, worked 18 hour days 7 days a week? I commend some of these "padres de Familia" for the sacrifices that they have made for their children.

I do agree that there are abuses in the system, but thats because of the lack of regulation and enforcment on the part of the authorities. I mean what's to stop some of these "middle class" people from getting 2 or 3 apartments from the gov. when they know un capitan, or sargento who greases the weels for them.

Lets not forget that the US welfare program reform that was supposed to stop fraud has only helped to put the families that desperatly needed the help pay a babysitter so they can find a minimum wage job because of the lack of skills, and then get a reduction on their allowance, so now they can't afford a sitter and the kids have no supervision, which leads to crime and drugs, so now the kids have no skills and will probably be on welfare like their parents.

AZB, You mean to tell me you tried talking a young girl out of love and were surprised when she didn't listen? I thought you were a learned man, I'm young but even I know there is no sense in telling the heart what to do.

And I'm really tired of all this "class" talk, why is it that everybody wants to be sectioned, I've been in all classes in DR and I found that the upper class and some middle class have the "better-than-thou" mentality, but money does not make the person "charecter" does. We should stop focusing our attention on classes and rather on what we can do to help the less fortunate, as Pib stated.

and I,m sick and tired of your complaining about them!

"Jesus" "TW", why don,t you give away some of your millions to a poor person so you would have one fewer to bitch about! In the DR,one doesn,t have to come in "contact" with the "Poor" unless you choose tr haven,t you learned the "STARE"? The "stare" is what rich dominicans use so as not to "Gaze upon" the "Poor and the Black" Look straight ahead,do not blink" until the person is out-of-sight! (Should also be used when driving through "Barrios Calients") I happen to be "Sick and Tired" of people who drive Super SUVs! Using more than their share of "Natural Resources!My mother always said that "God must Love poor people,cause he sure made a lot of them"! I hope you don,t believe in re-incarnation,because I bet you will be coming back as a "Haitian Juice Vendor",with three flat tires!Criss Colon

right on Criss

I am going to keep my mouth shut on this one becacuse you guys already know how I feel. however, I just want to commend Criss...I couldn't have said it better.

"If you take a dog which is starving and feed him and make him
prosperous, that dog will not bite you. This is the primary
difference between a dog and a man."
-- Mark Twain


Sad but true enough over the years.

Oscar Lewis called it the culture of Poverty. The poor are poor because they are poor. A terrible and viscious circle.
Curiously, AZB's post is repeated every day.

HB

codo a codo

Looks like TW has been mingling with the poor. Maybe you got your information secondhand. Most of the abuse you talk about it done by party hacks from whatever party is in power. The lack of accountablity and dysfunctional system only benfits the corrupt and it set up to do so. Thus far I do not see much hope for responsible administration of public services in the DR.

Hillbilly, I respectfully disagree about greasing the wheels of perpetural corruption. Eventually the government will have to set an example and remember how Rudy went after organized crime in NYC. The mafia is much more entrenched in the DR. Enforcing the law is a good thing, Candalier just seems to have this in your face approach instead of a more responsible gradual enforcement. The rules about first aid kits and reflective triangles is a bit overboard as it basically gives the police the authority to do what they want when they want because most people do not have these in the vehicle. Those with resources like the broker system to get things accomplished in the public sector. The poor live on the fringe of accountability and survival. I have lived and worked in "poor" areas in the DR and NYC. There is a lot of nonsense going on and can make it difficult to live there at times. It just seems that if we need so many more billions to fight this war we could think about investing similiar amounts in underserved communities.

I also have to admit I have used the "stare" on occasion to deal with aggressive types.

scienctific explanation

let me explain a natural phenomenon called "diffusion"...its often described by an equation called Ficke's Law....and it says that the time rate of change of a particle (human) is related to the gradient of its concentration...what this means is that if there are lots more people with little money than people with lots of money..then the people with litle money will eventually encroach on the moat designed to isolate the people with lots of money....I apologize to AZB, since with his mental capacity, he will undoubtedly have to read this post over and over again...there's another natural phenomenon called "Get elected to DR public office so you can steal money for yourself and your friends"...closely followed by its corollary "Give a tiny fraction of the money you plan to steal to the under-educated poor in order to keep them off your back"..which means they will get elected again to steal some more...

thank you for your support, mondongo

P.S. Coming soon is my very own, world's best recipe for Jambalaya!!!

I say no matter what you do for someone ..if they are not willing to change or don't want to change..theres nothing you can do to change them. I was on welfare in USA for a while..bad things happened in my life and I used the "system". But I never had the welfare mentality. No matter what you do you can not change a person. Education is important, but the question is how to find the people to edjucate that will appriciate it. So you have to ask the life boat question...who stays in the boat and who gets thrown out? If the government is to be for the people then they have to be for all the people. People will abuse the system but there are some who will improve their situations and some who won't. So should they not help anyone because someone abuses the system? If you help 10 people and 2 make better of themselves is it a bad thing?
Hope I made sense here. sometimes I have a hard time expressing exactly what I'm trying to say!!

Being short of cash is temporary. Being poor is a state of mind.
I volunteer in a drop in centre for teens here in Canada. We see kids that left home and of course they get into the cycle of , if you don't have an address you can't attend school or get welfare. We try to help them by directing them to the proper sources and even like Jan said if we help turn the life of one or two then we have done much. Some will always live on the streets and take what they can but some will change their own lives with a little help.

poor? try poor taste.

This is my first post, and, in fact, only the second time that I have been at this site. I am saddened by the fact that bigots of all sorts run rampant even on sites such as these. It is unfortunate that no matter where you go in the world, you still will be flogged with educated ignorance, i.e. by thoughtless, spiteful, backward people who have no desire to help anyone but themselves, and who, despite being in the position to change what they despise about the country in which they are living, instead choose to trample those who were born into a less fortunate position than they themselves. Obviously, your position in society and impressing others with it are important to you. You are, therefore, not much different than the hooker who went back to her home neighborhood to impress her old friends with her new found status. At least she moved up in the world.

I don't know about here but once you are in the "system" its not easy to get out. They don't let you try and save money. And when you start getting ahead a little then they cut you instead of being there to keep helping. So they teach people how to be dependent instead of helping them to become independent. Alos how to cheat. I learned this. Opened a savings in anothers name so I could save money to escape the system. Til I saved enough to get on my own. I don't see how that helps anyone.


And about TW...I think he talks tough but hes really a sweetie underneath...way underneath!! But its there...just hidden very well! jejeje

You politically correct pundits are nothing but talk. All you folks do is talk talk but no real action. I know that your heart bleeds for the less fortunate but what are you doing to help them?
You people are the same folks who cheer to save the whales and the endangered rain forests, the dolfpens etc but at the same time you people also support the so called "war against terrorism' which caused the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians all over the world. yeah yeah, throw stones at me for saying something which was not repeated in CNN or the ABC news.
I am a chiropractor in DR. Do you know how many times I have to give free treatments to the poor who can't afford my services? Do you know how many times I have had to pay them money to get their X-ray taken so I can diagnose their back ache condition? Once, I even had to give a poor person money to get back to their campo, after treating them for free. Do you know its the poor who actually drove me out of my puerto plata office to relocate to santiago. Do you know how many people owe me money there? same people wouldn't pay me for my services but always had money to blow in bars.
I help and let people stay at my home for weeks when they are starting out fresh in DR. I help them save money and guide them in the right direction so they would have less of a difficult time in settling in DR than I had when I first came here.
All of you soft hearted people, mondongo, bluepool are all full of S***. You people are all talks and empty words. Tell me this Mondongo, how many times have you helped out your poor fellow dominican citizens? You are the New Yol type who probably wouldn't sit in the same restaurant if you see a poor dominican seated next to you.
I know your types very well: it reminds me of my politically correct friend Charlie. He was the number 1 defender of the blacks and an anti racist; yet charlie didn't know a single black person in atlanta. I knew him for 5 years and I had never seen him talk to a black person ever. Once I introduced him to a cute black friend of mine (who wanted to date him); charlie refused to be even seen with her. he told me flat out that "I am not racist but I just don't get turned on by a black lady".
Mondongo, you are no different than Charlie. You folks are just cheap words.

sorry for throwing bluepool's name in there. You are new to this board, i should be nice to you....
welcome to the Jungle.....

Love ya AZB!!!