IRS wanting to know my assets in DR

ccarabella

Newbie
Feb 5, 2002
733
12
0
My bank in DR called asking me to fill out some important paperwork.
It was a request to fill out a form W-9 from the IRS and to provide a copy
of my US passport.
I had heard about this coming but since I used my cedula I figured they
wouldn't ever ask me.
In any case, the bank manager mentioned that the US was cracking down
On money laundering, illegal foreign assets etc.
He said I wouldn't believe how many people have told him they wouldn't provide
Their SS #'s because they were receiving government assistance.
 

joe

Brain Donor!
Jan 12, 2016
1,092
0
0
Do you have more than 100k in your account?
Do you generate more than 8k a month here?
Do you own property that hasn't been financed through a bank here.

If three negatives, sit back at the pool and slam back some cocktails and watch the IRS fry the Donald.
 

joe

Brain Donor!
Jan 12, 2016
1,092
0
0
Whoops...3'rd point. Do you own property THAT HAS BEEN FINANCED THROUGH A BANK HERE?
 

franco1111

Bronze
May 29, 2013
1,248
229
63
Gringo
US, Dominican governments to share tax date [sic] of citizens


Santo Domingo.- The financial data of Dominicans living in the US and Americans residing in Dominican Republic would be exchanged by both governments, to bolster compliance on international taxation, the Finance Ministry announced Thursday .

The transfer of information will be carried out in compliance with the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), implemented from an agreement signed by Finance minister Donald Guerrero and US ambassador James W. Brewster.

In a press release, the Finance Ministry said the two countries signed an agreement in effect since 1989 to exchange tax information, which was the basis for the new pact.

It adds that the mutual assistance agreement in tax matters counts on an effective infrastructure to automatically exchange data and forms part of the government’s policy of transparency.

http://dominicantoday.com/dr/local/...can-governments-to-share-tax-date-of-citizens
 

cavok

Silver
Jun 16, 2014
9,598
4,099
113
Cabarete
My bank in DR called asking me to fill out some important paperwork.
It was a request to fill out a form W-9 from the IRS and to provide a copy
of my US passport.
I had heard about this coming but since I used my cedula I figured they
wouldn't ever ask me.
In any case, the bank manager mentioned that the US was cracking down
On money laundering, illegal foreign assets etc.
He said I wouldn't believe how many people have told him they wouldn't provide
Their SS #'s because they were receiving government assistance.

Big Brother is watching! This is the same as a 1099 form. It's to determine how much money you have here and how much interest you received. If you have more than a combined total of $10K at any time during the year, you have to send the IRS a FinCEN 114 Form. There are incredibly huge fines if you don't! If you have more than $50K in assets here, there's yet another form you have to send. It's one giant PITA! If you want to sleep at night, I always say" Don't mess with the IRS!
 

Cdn_Gringo

Gold
Apr 29, 2014
8,671
1,133
113
The requirement under the act/agreement with the DR is to provide the data. Not to provide the data of only those who are taxable. Every American is required to file a t tax return every year whether they are taxable or not regardless of where they live or spend the majority of their time.

The financial account information of every American holding a foreign account is required to be submitted to the IRS each year regardless of the balance/activity of those accounts. Americans who fail to provide the required info to their foreign bank and sign the forms will eventually see their accounts frozen or closed.

Uncle Sam has not given Americans a the choice in this regard. Financial institutions who wish to conduct business in the USA are required to secure and submit this information. They don't have a choice either.
 

botemon

Active member
Jun 28, 2008
223
31
28
I did not write this however it does sum up my thoughts on this issue. A couple of "points" I would like to make are: 1) last year, buried in a transportation bill, (passed) is a new law that give the IRS the authority to revoke your passport if they decide you owe them money. If you have ever been audited by the IRS then you know they pull their numbers out of their rear end. So now without being charged with a crime (tax fraud) some low level IRS bureaucrat can revoke your passport. The law passed last year and as of this writing they are still in the process of making it happen. 2) Because of all this "cooperation" (extortion) with foreign banks, many Latin American banks and others around the world will no longer do business with Americans. 3) United States (and I think Japan) are the only two countries in the world that tax income earned (capital gains or otherwise) outside of its borders. Below, when you read that folks are renouncing their US citizenship in record numbers, this mainly applies to folks who were born in the US "accidentally". They may have never worked day in their lives in the US, BUT because they hold US citizenship, they are required to pay up!
SNIP>>>
Deep within its bowels fell the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, or FATCA for short. It was a sort of ‘law within a law’, and one of the dumbest in US history.
FATCA effectively commanded every single bank on the planet to enter into an information-sharing agreement with the IRS.
(Well, not so much ‘information sharing’. More like ‘information giving’. Because the US government doesn’t share anything with anyone.)
It all started based on a phony assumption that millions of Americans were hiding trillions of dollars in secret offshore accounts. And given how broke the US government is, they wanted every penny they were entitled to.
So the plan was to turn every bank in the world into a global spy network.
Any bank that didn’t comply was threatened with a crippling 30% withholding tax on every dollar that went in, out, and through the Land of the Free.
Banks complied. And FATCA was rolled across the world.
Eventually foreign governments stepped in and negotiated government-to-government information sharing agreements.
The idea was that, instead of banks sharing information directly with the IRS, they would give all the information to their national governments, which would then hand everything over to the United States.
Essentially it created another layer of bureaucracy, with ‘FATCA departments’ now within finance ministries around the world.
The first of these government-to-government information sharing agreements, or IGAs as they are known, went into effect on the first of this month. (10/13/15)
So FATCA truly has graduated to the next level of stupidity.
Here’s why:
Remember, the entire law was passed based on a premise that it would quickly fill the government’s empty coffers with oodles of cash.
But that hasn’t happened.
The government itself admits that over the last 5-6 years, government programs to eliminate offshore tax evasion have brought in $6.5 billion, or roughly $1 to $1.3 billion per year.
That’s not even enough to fund the annual budget for the government’s obscure ‘Corporation for National and Community Service’.
And according to the Association of Certified Financial Crime Specialists (ACFCS), an organization specializing in tax evasion, FATCA will continue to generate roughly $800 million per year in tax revenue.
Yet $800 million doesn’t even constitute a drop in the bucket anymore; it’s enough to pay about 17 hours worth of interest on the national debt.
Even if ACFCS is way off and the real amount is 10x their estimate, the funds still won’t come anywhere close to what FATCA was supposed to bring in for Uncle Sam.
But it certainly raises the question—isn’t SOME money better than NO money?
No. Not when the cost is this high.
It’s not like implementing FATCA around the world is free. Banks and governments have had to incur substantial costs to comply. And those costs are ongoing.
Think about it—dozens upon dozens of nations across the world have to go through the trouble to change their banking laws and privacy regulations. In some cases they might even have needed to amend their Constitutions or hold a referendum.
Thousands of banks have had to suffer increased costs of compliance as well.
The British government alone estimated that the cost of compliance for UK businesses would be $80 to $150 million per year. Just in one country. It’s unreal.
Now imagine those same costs in France. Spain. Germany. Japan. Etc.
The costs to foreign banks and governments start to exceed the benefit to Uncle Sam very quickly.
This basically qualifies as extortion. The US government made a bunch of threats, forcing banks and foreign governments to comply with its stupid law.
It would be a hell of a lot easier if they had just blackmailed them all into making a donation to reduce the US federal debt, instead of creating yet another bureaucracy.
Even former IRS commissioner Steven Miller stated last year to the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association:
“I can’t even say with conviction that I’m sure, looking strictly on a cost-benefit basis, that FATCA’s. . . benefits are going to outweigh the cost.”
FATCA constitutes theft. The US government is generating a little bit of revenue and the great expense of foreign banks and governments.
(not to mention the thousands of Americans who have had to renounce their citizenship because of FATCA’s idiotic rules.)
It’s a sad to realize that the only way the US government can generate revenue is to chase boogeymen across the world and hold foreign banks and government hostage at the point of a gun.
If tax evasion in the US really were such a massive problem (which, by the way, the data shows that’s it’s not), why don’t they just attack the root cause?
The US tax code is embarrassingly antiquated. The last major revision was from the 1980s, and it doesn’t take into account globalization, the digital revolution, or anything else that’s happened in the last three decades.
Instead of violence and intimidation, why not just work to streamline the tax code and make America more competitive?
Sadly, this no longer enters the government psyche in the Land of the Free.
Respectfully.
 

william webster

Platinum
Jan 16, 2009
30,247
4,330
113
This may help........
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What is a 'W-9 Form'

A W-9 form is an Internal Revenue Service (IRS) form, also known as a Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification form, which is used to confirm a person’s taxpayer identification number (TIN). This confirmation can be requested for either an individual defined as a U.S. citizen or a person defined as a resident alien.
BREAKING DOWN 'W-9 Form'
A W-9 form is a formal written request for information only, and is used solely for the purpose of confirming a person’s TIN. An entity that is required to file an informational document with the IRS, such as a 1099, must obtain your correct TIN to report any earnings or losses that may affect your federal tax return or your taxable income.

The W-9 differs from a W-4, which is more commonly supplied by employees to direct employers, in that the W-9 does not inherently arrange for the withholding of any taxes due. Any required taxes based on gains related to the provided W-9 are the responsibility of the TIN holder listed on the document, unless the taxpayer is subject to backup withholding. If backup withholding is required, this will need to be noted on the W-9, to properly inform the entity receiving the information of the need to withhold accordingly.
Use of W-9 Information

The information obtained on a W-9 form is most often used to create a version of the Form 1099. A Form 1099 contains information about any income that may have been received by the TIN holder that would not normally be listed on a W-2. This includes, but is not limited to, income paid to a person as part of a contract; certain real estate transactions; mortgage interest paid by an individual; dividends paid against an investment; and various other financial transactions.

A Form 1099 is only required to be issued once the minimum threshold is reached, which is set at $600 as of 2016. Amounts under that threshold must be reported as income by the TIN holder, but does not require a 1099 form.
Those Not Eligible for a W-9

Read more: W-9 Form http://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/w9form.asp#ixzz4KWBoyxiY
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook
 

Timotero

Bronze
Feb 25, 2011
689
29
48
Whatever country we are a citizen of, we have an obligation to comply with the laws of that country.

If we disagree with a particular law or laws, we have a couple of choices.
1. Work to legally change those laws.
2. Disregard those laws - and be prepared to accept the possible consequences.
3. Become a citizen of another country and renounce our original citizenship.

It's our choice. Me personally, I prefer #1.
 

william webster

Platinum
Jan 16, 2009
30,247
4,330
113
I seem to fill out the W-8BEN alot....

I know a few financial agencies that eschew Americans.....
My American friends used to doubt me that such a thing existed......
 

SKY

Gold
Apr 11, 2004
13,487
3,623
113
Whatever country we are a citizen of, we have an obligation to comply with the laws of that country.

If we disagree with a particular law or laws, we have a couple of choices.
1. Work to legally change those laws.
2. Disregard those laws - and be prepared to accept the possible consequences.
3. Become a citizen of another country and renounce our original citizenship.

It's our choice. Me personally, I prefer #1.

You have as much chance at accomplishing #1 as you do flying to the moon on a Moto Concho.
 

Cdn_Gringo

Gold
Apr 29, 2014
8,671
1,133
113
My last post contained zero DR content so let me attempt to steer this back to the topic at hand. The OP and any other American should not be surprised when they are asked to fill out and sign a FACTA reporting document when opening a bank account in the DR or any other country for that matter.

Those whose accounts predate FACTA, you'll be asked to fill out the forms at some point. The banks here do not distinguish between Americans who are required to report foreign income nor do they even care if the American submits a tax return. It's all about the bank's wish to be in compliance with the Act so that so that the institution isn't penalized. It's too much trouble to figure out who needs to file/sign, so the banks here will require all Americans to allow their data to be reported to the IRS. What the IRS does with that info after it is submitted is also of no consequence or concern of the bank here.

How much effort the banks here put towards this endeavor is anyone's guess.
 

cavok

Silver
Jun 16, 2014
9,598
4,099
113
Cabarete
The requirement under the act/agreement with the DR is to provide the data. Not to provide the data of only those who are taxable. Every American is required to file a t tax return every year whether they are taxable or not regardless of where they live or spend the majority of their time.

The financial account information of every American holding a foreign account is required to be submitted to the IRS each year regardless of the balance/activity of those accounts. Americans who fail to provide the required info to their foreign bank and sign the forms will eventually see their accounts frozen or closed.

Uncle Sam has not given Americans a the choice in this regard. Financial institutions who wish to conduct business in the USA are required to secure and submit this information. They don't have a choice either.

I think you're missing a very important distinction here. If the aggregate value of ALL your accounts here in the DR is LESS than $10,000, you only have to list the bank(s) name(s) and interest received on Schedule B, Form 1040. If the aggregate value of all your accounts is MORE than $10,000 AT ANY TIME during the year, even if for only one day, you must ALSO file FinCEN Form 114. Failure to do so can subject you to some outrageous penalties. Many US expats are not aware of this reporting requirement. Also, if the aggregate value of your accounts at any time exceeds $50,000, you must also file Form 8938.
 

wrecksum

Bronze
Sep 27, 2010
2,063
96
48
They tried it on me via my bank in France.I'm not a US resident or citizen but use a courier address in Miami for mail.
Told my bank that it was unnecessary and unwarranted illegal intrusion and they should tell 'em to stick it..

Nothing further since then..
 

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
42,211
5,969
113
Once again the way you post is misleading

Yeah ok. US citizens who are destitute, some illegal aliens, some senior citizens with dependent children may not have to file a tax return. For everyone else, lick your pen tips...

U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad - Filing Requirements
If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien living or traveling outside the United States, you generally are required to file income tax returns, estate tax returns, and gift tax returns and pay estimated tax in the same way as those residing in the United States. Your income, filing status, and age generally determine whether you must file a return. Generally, you must file a return if your gross income from worldwide sources is at least the amount shown for your filing status in the Filing Requirements table in Chapter 1 of Publication 54, Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad.


https://www.irs.gov/individuals/int...nd-resident-aliens-abroad-filing-requirements

The situation for those in or out of the US are the same.
Why is it not likely that about one third of Americans living out of the US also do not need to file returns?
 

Cdn_Gringo

Gold
Apr 29, 2014
8,671
1,133
113
If the wording in italics is misleading, blame the IRS, the quote was pulled verbatim from the website in the link.

As to why I find it difficult to believe that 1/3 of Americans living outside the US do not file tax returns:

How much does it cost to live in the DR?

Apart from those who have nothing and earn nothing slinging beer at a bar, a modest monthly amount of $1500 (net income) puts most over the minimum amounts that would qualify them for not filing a tax return. But this isn't what the OP talking about so time to drop it. If you want, start a thread in off topic, I'll meet you there.

All banks in the DR are required to file account info for American account holders to the IRS as per the terms of FACTA. These same banks do not accept any argument for not submitting the info. As a blanket policy (as far as I understand) all banks here have chosen to submit info on all American account holders regardless of whether the account needs to be reported or not under the terms of the Act. Slowly and perhaps not steadily, all Americans with a bank account in the DR will be approached as was the OP.

If the OP does not head to the bank, after a period of time, he will be contacted again. If he ignores the issue a second time, he will lose access to his account until he complies or the account is permanently closed.
 

ju10prd

On Vacation!
Nov 19, 2014
4,210
0
36
Accountkiller
Unfortunately many of us non US citizens are receiving International Tax Compliant Regulation(ITCR) tax reporting documentation from accountants at this time to satisfy the US global reach tracking those seeking tax avoidance under its regime.
 

cavok

Silver
Jun 16, 2014
9,598
4,099
113
Cabarete
If the wording in italics is misleading, blame the IRS, the quote was pulled verbatim from the website in the link.

As to why I find it difficult to believe that 1/3 of Americans living outside the US do not file tax returns:

How much does it cost to live in the DR?

Apart from those who have nothing and earn nothing slinging beer at a bar, a modest monthly amount of $1500 (net income) puts most over the minimum amounts that would qualify them for not filing a tax return. But this isn't what the OP talking about so time to drop it. If you want, start a thread in off topic, I'll meet you there.

All banks in the DR are required to file account info for American account holders to the IRS as per the terms of FACTA. These same banks do not accept any argument for not submitting the info. As a blanket policy (as far as I understand) all banks here have chosen to submit info on all American account holders regardless of whether the account needs to be reported or not under the terms of the Act. Slowly and perhaps not steadily, all Americans with a bank account in the DR will be approached as was the OP.

If the OP does not head to the bank, after a period of time, he will be contacted again. If he ignores the issue a second time, he will lose access to his account until he complies or the account is permanently closed.

It's very common for an American to receive $1500/mo. and more in Social Security benefits. Social Security benefits do not count towards the minimum income threshold for filing a tax return. So, for example, if you got $2500/mo in S.S. and that was your only sorce of income - you are not required to file a tax return. In addition, that person could earn up to an additional $10,000(approx.) in interest or retirement account distributions and still not be required to file a tax return.
 
Last edited:

cavok

Silver
Jun 16, 2014
9,598
4,099
113
Cabarete
If the wording in italics is misleading, blame the IRS, the quote was pulled verbatim from the website in the link.

As to why I find it difficult to believe that 1/3 of Americans living outside the US do not file tax returns:

How much does it cost to live in the DR?

Apart from those who have nothing and earn nothing slinging beer at a bar, a modest monthly amount of $1500 (net income) puts most over the minimum amounts that would qualify them for not filing a tax return. But this isn't what the OP talking about so time to drop it. If you want, start a thread in off topic, I'll meet you there.

All banks in the DR are required to file account info for American account holders to the IRS as per the terms of FACTA. These same banks do not accept any argument for not submitting the info. As a blanket policy (as far as I understand) all banks here have chosen to submit info on all American account holders regardless of whether the account needs to be reported or not under the terms of the Act. Slowly and perhaps not steadily, all Americans with a bank account in the DR will be approached as was the OP.

If the OP does not head to the bank, after a period of time, he will be contacted again. If he ignores the issue a second time, he will lose access to his account until he complies or the account is permanently closed.

Getting back on topic, yes, all banks are now required to get all American account holders to fill out a W-9 form and report account information to the IRS. If you haven't filled one out already, you will in the near future.

The IRS will now know that you have a foreign bank account. Now, when you file your tax return, if you don't(haven't) reported tht you have a foreign bank account, the IRS computer will catch the discrepancy in a nanosecond(aren't computers wonderful?) and flag your return, and you will soon receive a letter from your friendly IRS agent asking you to explain your failure to report. If you happened to have more than $10,000 in those accounts, be prepared for a real nightmare. Google the penalties for failure to file an FBAR/FinCEN Form 114.