DR standard of living

mondongo

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At about US$4000 (highest estimate i've seen) national income per person, the DR is still below average in the Americas in standard of living. What I have been pondering for a while is what can be done in the short term and in the long term to improve the situation. This all only leads me to several questions:

1) Can the poeple in the DR accept the notion that progress depends directly on the people and not the government?

2) Can the government accept the same premise?

3) Will the goverment break down the barriers to free markets: a) consistent application of laws, b) removal of anti-business regulations, rescinding international barriers to trade that often come in the form of taxes and red tape.

4) What good is a constitution if it can be changed at the whim of the contemporaneous political thieves?

5) Can the uneducated have the faith to get educated despite the apparent fact that there will be no job waiting for them?

6) Who will provide the money for this education?

These questions lead to a few thoughts: 1) the first order of business is to come up with ways of producing within the borders of the, DR the goods that the DR people consume. And of course produce it more cheaply and with higher quality. Inverters, washing machines,mopeds, more efficient farming methods,ets.
2) the next order of business is to produce within the borders of the DR, products that can be sold competitively in the world economy.........


anyhow....just some thoughts....and I would welcome some responses......


mondongo
 

Criss Colon

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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WAY!

I started to respond to your questions.The more I thought about the possible answers,the more depressed I became.As long as "Stealing" is the main occupation of the "Government" nothing can ever really change.they(the "Politicos")used to just steal from the GNP of the Dominican Republic,now they "Borrow & Steal,Borrow & Steal" which is like "Stealing-The-Future"!!CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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While I might differ on the overall capacity of the DR to produce what they need, I can certainly relate to the need to try and do something. The removal of trade barriers is certainly, as you say, the first step.

And Criss? I got the same feelings....Grrrrrr!

HB
 

Trivalent

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When are we going to have....

True Leadership! That is the question. This is not about political parties or affiliations but more about the quality of the person.
When will we have someone with the intelligence, morality, education to break the cycle that exists today.

Who will win the presidency and have the courage to say no to the political machine that got him/her there and govern for the benefit of the country not for personal gain.

The concept of true public service, making a true personal and financial sacrifice to serve your country does not exist in the Dominican Republic today. Instead we choose from a group of people who have never held down full time jobs and whose mission is to get in power and steal enough money to hold them over until the next time they get in power.

My point is that our problems are about poor policy. However that poor policy is not due to a lack of understanding (most people can tell you what needs to be done) but rather a lack of leadership courage to do the right thing inspite of the personal risks involved.

Where is our FDR, JFK, Roosevelt, Truman? For the sake of our country I hope he seating on a bus someplace in DR right now, on the way to school and dreaming about how someday he will have the courage to do the right thing.
 

Jane J.

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Jan 3, 2002
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My fear is that when this true 'public servant' arrives the people won't give him the chance he deserves. I think that far too often the people are so impatient for change that when it isn't effected overnight, they are left pining for the 'good old days'...

To get rid of corruption entirely would mean a long, dry period of transition. It isn't only those in high places who practice and benefit from crookedness of el sistema. Many, many people rely to some degree or another on different forms of corruption just to put food on the table. Without these loopholes in place those people are left to struggle, as they have no training, education, etc. So how would this Dominican JFK keep everybody happy during the long interim and avoid an all-out mutiny? And by mutiny I mean as much by the common person as by the politicos and military degenerates who wouldn't tolerate an end to their money-making machines.

I pray that one day the Dominican JFK comes along, but I have a hard time envisioning it. Not only have I heard people come right out and say that they long for the days of Balaguer, I have even heard some misguided folk say that they were better off during the times of Trujillo. Now, how sad is *that*?

Along with increased avenues for trade, in my opinion, one of the first steps would also be to improve the police force by properly training them, and then by paying them a salary that someone who keeps the law truly merits.
 

Trivalent

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I think we all agree that corruption is hard to stop. So how does the country improve despite of it?

Mondongo made some valid points about eliminating trade barriers and improving the balance of trade. Here is one idea on how to do that:

I think the government should sponsor a capital investment fund in the U.S. for start-up manufacturing businesses in DR. The fund (and all of the money) would be managed by a private investment bank and used to fund start-ups in return for equity (essentially a Venture Capital fund).

The bank would approve the business plan and the management team and release the funds based on the valuation of the company.

The government would allow companies funded by this money to import raw materials free of duties but they would be taxed and would be allowed to sell all of their production in DR or export. The government can target these duty free imports to specific goods that the country is currently buying abroad.

The Government gets:
1)Jobs
2)Tax Revenue
3)Direct Foriegn Investment with debt
4)The development of a manufacturing base and a stronger entrepreneur class

Foriegn investors get:
1)Opportunity for a less risky investment in DR

I realize this is overly simplified but I hope I got the general idea across.
 

Criss Colon

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No shortage of "Good Ideas"!

It is hard for any new enterprise to be successful.Even in the US most fail during their first year in existance,Usually due to under-capitalization(Not enough money on hand to suvive until "profits" start to support the business) Now in the DR, "borrowed" money can cost you 20 to 30%per year,and more.Then there are the "hidden" costs of paying Government "inspectors" to allow you to stay in business! What chance does a newcomer have?If you are successful you draw attention and the "Politicos" want more of your money!It makes me sad.I see you young educated enthusiastic Dominicans who would like to start a "venture" in your homeland,when you have a better chance of making your fortune in the USA! Good Luck CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

Marc

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JFK and educated leadership

The problem with a Dominican JFK is that I fear he/she would meet the same tragic end as the original...

A story for you: I was processed for my cedula by a young woman, couldn't have been even 30 yrs old. Law degree from the US, masters in France. Fluent in Spanish (duh, she's Dominican), English and French. I know this because she spoke all three while I was in her office. Charming, and obviously very capable and professional. Outstanding.

A woman with this intelligence and education is handing out cedulas. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, generals and old timers are handing out cash! Cash that they don't even "have"!

<b>Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll sell the rod and tackle to buy a new cell phone!</b>

marc
 

MommC

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You said it Marc!!
It pains me greatly to see the attitude of many of the Dominicans I have contact with every day.
While the past government was making some effort the present administration seems to have gone back to the old Spanish model of take what you can get, set up your relatives and friends for life and to H--- with the country!
 

mondongo

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Jan 1, 2002
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thanks for your posts....

Since I haven't lived in the DR for over 20 years, my thoughts and aspirations might be naive...some of you folks that have been there a while (Criss and HB, et al) probably know all too well how difficult it would be to effect any change.

Marc, your story of the well educated woman being over qualified for her job actually brings me hope...it can tell me that there might be a good number of qualified workers to draw upon for entrepreneurs in the DR.

Jane J. you make some good points about how quickly change can come about. A long time is the unfortunate answer. We also crave the porper passing,adjudicating,and enforcing of FAIR laws.

Trivalent I think that entrepreneurship is one of the few answers that can stick. I will have to disagree on the source of the starting and on-going capital though. I would keep the DR governemnt as far away from anything I do as possible.

Listening to Alan Greenspan has taught me that productivity is the greatest determinant of a country's (or even an individual) future prosperity. For the DR to catch up with the rest of the world, these productivity increases have to be susbtantial. Businesses that do just that would be a great place to start.

Continuing to build the country's infracstructure is another (this I admit is one of the few roles for the goverment). But even in this space we can ask ourselves: is our road building technology advanced enough? Can we build roads that can better stand up to the sun and rain?

Always resist tax increases. Demand personnel cutbacks instead. The more of our own money you and I keep, the more efficiently it will be spent.

Lastly, since we cant avoid politics, start a campaign contribution fund where money will be used to help elect those who wont steal the DR people's money. But even this effort has to be focused first on getting results. I believe this means focusing on local and low profile public offices first...

Criss...my hope is that at some point im my life, I would be fortunate enough to help start some of these businesses without
without worrying about the very realistic fear of business failure.

mondongo
 

Tony C

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Some of the posts on this thread reminds me of a old joke. What are the 3 biggest lies? The first one cannot not be stated in mixed company. The other 2 are: "The Check is in the Mail" and "I am from the Goverment. I am here to help you!" The last one is the main stumbling block to economic growth in the DR. Too many people in the DR and around the world(Including the US), believe that more Gov. is the answer to all their problems. So what happens? Gov. creates layer after layer of rules, regulations and bueracracy. This in turn creates still larger Gov which needs to create more rules and regs. It is a viscious circle.
Gov does has it place. It is essential to create basic infrastructure and to protect us from the evil and unscrupulous. The problem lays when the Gov starts to try to protect the people from life itself and when it attempts to be a provider of the people.
Why is the PRD in power now? Because they promised more people jobs and payouts from the Gov. Just look at the news in DR1. The military's budget has been greatly increased. For what?
I have started a few businesses in my life. Most have bee successful. The one that haven't, I can directly point to Gov interference in part for their demise. Even today I spend a ridiculous amount of time dealing with regulatory agencies.
Many times I have investigated the possibilty of starting a business in the DR. After looking at all the red tape and corruption I decided against it. And that is just me. Just think of all the others, like me, who could have provided jobs and capital in the DR.

Tony C.
 

MommC

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You said it TonyC

We have been tempted but it just isn't worth the hassle and the bribes necessary to get it going let alone make it successful.
I remember the first business we started back home.
Elderly gentleman from across the street came to visit when he saw us preparing our store for opening. He advised us that in the previous 40 yrs anyone who opened in that location had gone belly up in less than 18 months so we should think twice. Well we already had thought twice and guess what......35 yrs later we're still in the same location, our son has taken over and plans to be there for another 35! So yes we do know what it takes to be successful! But here in the DR there's too much against you to even begin.
 

CES

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{=} This must be a serious topic/thread . . .

Criss is saying something that I can agree with. . . {=}

~ How can we change the juggernaut that calls it's self the government of the DR?

The spirit of the "Caudillo" runs deep in the body politic of la Rep?blica Dominicana and the tirade of : "personalismo", "el patr?n", y "machismo" are engrained in those at the top of the political pecking order. In other words how can an outsider ever hope to change "el sistema"? Can the system be changed from within the membership of the three major political parties?

Is it possible that the "de primera" and "gente de segunda" are quite content with a 'status quo' ? Do the 10 to 15% of the population that controls the wealth of the nation want any real change in how the president is elected?

Is a strong 'grass roots' effort that creates a new political party the only way to end the stupid cycle of political patronage that seems to put a mill stone around the neck of those voters that truly want a 21st. century democratic government? I see no hope for the country until universal education is a reality. The functional illiteracy of the electorate gives great political power to the PRD because they are willing to steal as much as it takes to bring in the vote. The folks at the top are happy with the way things are and they damn well don't want the installation of a new order that could someday challenge their grasp on the nation.

regards,

. . . CES"

PS . . . for Jane J., one possible reason that Trujillo's legacy has lasted so long is his name: General?simo Doctor Rafael Leonidas Trujillo Molina, Benefactor de la Patria y Padre de la Patria Nueva. With a handle like that people are going to remember you for a long time. . . lol
 
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Trivalent

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Entrepreneurship and Risk

Good thread folks...

I think we agree that promoting entrepreneurship maybe one way of improving the standard of living in DR. However I do not believe that the risk is any greater than starting a business anyplace else.

I submit that business risk is business risk. Whether it takes the form of barriers to entry, low capitalization, gaining market share in a mature market or political corruption. It is evaluated by each individual investor and he/she makes a decision based on their own cost/benefit analysis. A few posters have indicated that their personal evaluation has lead them to the conclusion that the risk is too high. It is not my place to dispute that.

I know that there are investors who will evaluate a business plan for a DR start-up and make the conclusion that the reward is worth the risk. The second question out of any investors mouth is "How are you going to handle the risk of political corruption?" (The first question is usually something about Sammy Sosa Ughhh!). Unfortunately, there is no visible effort on the part of our government to reach out to those investors.

I get invited at least three times to year to some event sponsored by some foriegn government catering to the business/investment community here in Chicago trying to educate us on the opportinities available. The last one was Mexico but I have been to ones for Russia and Romania. In each one of those presentations there is always a discussion about corruption, its affect on the business climate and what the government is doing to correct it.

The point of my earlier post is that the DR needs leadership that will get the same message out and present a convincing argument that they are trying to do something about it. Will corruption be eliminated? of course not. It is not about looking for a savior but about finding someone who will push back on the system not become part of it. (I made the mistake of mentioning fdr, jfk and truman and some people took that as some sort of endorsement as jfk for president of the century). I'm not a politician just a business man. I will bet on business and the market over government any day of the week.

Lastly, as far as comments about the high risk of failure when starting a business. I have a friend who says you cannot call yourself an entrepreneur unless at one time in your life your ability to pay your mortgage was not tied directly to a company's aged receivables report. :) I have one business failure under my belt (the reason: my inexperience nothing to do with goverment) and one success.

Let's go out and start some businesses in DR! This is what our country needs. What do you say Mondongo?
 

mondongo

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Jan 1, 2002
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It IS possible.

Determination, passion and hard work always win out in the end. If you believe you can make a difference, if you have the passion and use your time and effort intelligently............ The backdrop of political corruption and lassitude in the DR does not scare me. To the weak, obstacles obstruct. To the strong, obstacles are luscious energy pods. I see one. I ingest it. I become stronger. ...........................

OK...thanks for indulging my literary break. Trivalent, I like your attitude. We need to do something down there. Intelligent, motivated people WILL get it done. I congratulate you for putting your money where your mouth is. Others make good points about the practicability of these pie-in-the-sky ideas. Lots of ideas have been tried. Some have worked some have failed. We need to learn from history, yes. But we needn't be paralyzed by it. New ideas are born every day. I love my country, and I will help it.
 

Tony C

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Mondongo,
I applaud your patriotism. The DR would be a better place if they had more like you. The problem is with investors from outside the DR. Why would someone want to start a business in the DR, with all the barriers and corruption, when they could possibly go somewhere else and have a greater chance of success?
My ties to the DR run strong and deep but when it comes to my hard earned money that means nothing to me. maybe you find that shallow but that is the way it is for many.

Tony C.
 

Criss Colon

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Good Luck! Dominicanos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good Luck to Dominicans like;"Trivalent",DRtechie,my two young sons,my soon to be born daughter,and others who are the only true hope for this country.Maybe a;"Partido de Madres Dominicanos" could work.Only a Mother will really sacrifice for the good of her children! A "Mothers Party" that would work for the "Future" of the DR,and not try to "steal" that "Future",their childrens future!A Party of "Education-Health Care-Human Rights-Anti-Corruption"! I don,t expect to "see" that future myself,but thats the "Future" I,m telling my children about! Criss Colon
 

Jimmy Stewart

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Jan 12, 2002
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This is Jan not Jimmy

I would love to do something here to create jobs but the more and more I talk to people it seems too shaky! I have so many ideas but mant are bring things from USA to here and I can't even get a few boxes of my personal belonings here without worrying what theyer going to make me pay in taxes and if it will all be there when I recieve it. Thats sort of sad....theres got to be something that can be done but I just don't know this country well enough to understand it yet.
 

DRtechie

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Jan 27, 2002
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no thanks to gov.....

Progress is not going to come in the form of government. It's going to come from the people. The sooner people wake up and see that we can't rest all of our hopes and dreams on politicians the sooner we can get them out of there.

Here's the story of the town where I was born and raised in. We went from having absolutly nothing to being one of most developed towns in southern DR....all without a single government dime.

http://www.ahora.com.do/Edicion1211/SECCIONES/actualidad7.html

http://www.iespana.es/baninews/villaf.htm

Other Articles
http://www.listindiario.com.do/antes/270501/deporte/dep25.html
http://www.sju.edu/magazine/spring99/news/news5.htm
 

mondongo

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Tony C

TonyC: I am a firm believer in capitalism and the free markets. Capitalism is all we've got now. All other economic models have fallen. If you find better places for your capital than the DR, then that is what you must do. That is not shallow, that is the way of the world today. For some of us who were born there, it is family, and we must treat it as such.

Jimmy: one of the reasons I frequent this board is to try and find people like you and me...keep trying....i'm not ready yet....but when I am, i'll round up all you guys!!