Expats, Snowbirds & Tourists : Lead, Follow or Ignore?

cobraboy · Jun 24, 2017

It's funny how one's attitude changes when one morphs from a tourist to a resident.

When I first started coming to the DR in the late 80's, I recall how I felt that the "rules" didn't apply to me, that somehow my tourist status was somewhat a Get Out of Jail Free Card, not that I would do anything that would have landed me in jail.

The same attitude prevailed personally when I returned to the DR starting in 2004. I had changed since my first adventure two decades earlier, but I still had that "bulletproof" feeling. And I knew many who felt more bulletproof than I did. One guy that would hitch a ride down, a meek, mild, balding, pot-bellied milquetoast in Tampa became Porky Bad-Ass as soon as my small plane touched down. Drinking while driving? Pffft! Who's gonna stop him? Pot? No problem, it's everywhere and the chicas dig it.

But when I chose to put my final roots into Dominican soils, far away from the "typical" tourist zones, that attitude changed. I developed an acute sense that I was in Rome now, and needed to respect the Laws of Rome. And the longer I lived in the DR---it's been almost 10 years now---the more aware of not only prevailing law I became but developed a sense of who is trying to help Dominican society, and who thinks the rules don't apply to them.

So the trip in my WayBack Machine got me thinking: what is the correct, proper role of a foreigner travelling or living on DR soil? Do we:

Lead by example
Follow prevailing culture (about which many constantly complain), or
Just ignore it all and do as we damn well, please?

Personally, I'm becoming more and more adopting the first option: lead by example. To a certain extent, this may be of my wife's influence. Alida has always advocate applying all laws equally to all people, and even gives me grief when I don't use turn signals. She says that if Dominicans, many of whom respect gringo "do the right thing" ethos, sees those respectful, lawful actions they reinforce those behaviors in many locals, and those behaviors over time may have a wider effect on the culture & society as a whole.

Could be. I don't know.

I know others who say "the rules don't apply to me, I come here to get away from rules and could care less about prevailing culture or where it goes. It's all about me and my needs"

Others say "Dominicans can get away with it, so I'll try to get away with it, too."

I'm curious where you guys stand. What's your opinion? And are you a frequent tourist on a week or two holidays, snowbirds who come and stay for months on end, or do you live here 24/7/365?

Lead, follow or "screw it?" What say you, and why?

drstock · Jun 24, 2017

I live here and I believe in a mixture of lead and follow. I insist on behaving in the way I feel is right, such as waiting my turn, not dropping litter and driving considerately. But in certain respects one has to follow - such as knowing that a little cash is sometimes required to oil the wheels, however much it goes against the grain. But you have to remember you are in "their" country and if you just do as you please it is often just disrespectful.

sabra · Jun 24, 2017

cobraboy said:
It's funny how one's attitude changes when one morphs from a tourist to a resident.

When I first started coming to the DR in the late 80's, I recall how I felt that the "rules" didn't apply to me, that somehow my tourist status was somewhat a Get Out of Jail Free Card, not that I would do anything that would have landed me in jail.

The same attitude prevailed personally when I returned to the DR starting in 2004. I had changed since my first adventure two decades earlier, but I still had that "bulletproof" feeling. And I knew many who felt more bulletproof than I did. One guy that would hitch a ride down, a meek, mild, balding, pot-bellied milquetoast in Tampa became Porky Bad-Ass as soon as my small plane touched down. Drinking while driving? Pffft! Who's gonna stop him? Pot? No problem, it's everywhere and the chicas dig it.

But when I chose to put my final roots into Dominican soils, far away from the "typical" tourist zones, that attitude changed. I developed an acute sense that I was in Rome now, and needed to respect the Laws of Rome. And the longer I lived in the DR---it's been almost 10 years now---the more aware of not only prevailing law I became but developed a sense of who is trying to help Dominican society, and who thinks the rules don't apply to them.

So the trip in my WayBack Machine got me thinking: what is the correct, proper role of a foreigner travelling or living on DR soil? Do we:

Lead by example

Follow prevailing culture (about which many constantly complain), or

Just ignore it all and do as we damn well, please?

Personally, I'm becoming more and more adopting the first option: lead by example. To a certain extent, this may be of my wife's influence. Alida has always advocate applying all laws equally to all people, and even gives me grief when I don't use turn signals. She says that if Dominicans, many of whom respect gringo "do the right thing" ethos, sees those respectful, lawful actions they reinforce those behaviors in many locals, and those behaviors over time may have a wider effect on the culture & society as a whole.

Could be. I don't know.

I know others who say "the rules don't apply to me, I come here to get away from rules and could care less about prevailing culture or where it goes. It's all about me and my needs"

Others say "Dominicans can get away with it, so I'll try to get away with it, too."

I'm curious where you guys stand. What's your opinion? And are you a frequent tourist on a week or two holidays, snowbirds who come and stay for months on end, or do you live here 24/7/365?

Lead, follow or "screw it?" What say you, and why?

For me : lead by example a n d follow prevailing culture.

dv8 · Jun 24, 2017

i'm one month short of 11 years in the land of the wretched and i settled on splendid isolation. leading by example is foolish: the sheep won't bark because they are lead by a dog. following the "culture" would feel like selling out to what i mercilessly mock. and i am not that stupid to don the blinkers and plough forward with disregard to everything.

so instead i went for a comfortable life limited to things that suit me. when i am forced to interact with the outside world some days i may be gringa loca who gets a shovel and fills up the holes in the road and on other days i may neatly fit the pattern of nicely dressed stepford wife running errands in the town. i am who i always was. just older.

Drperson · Jun 24, 2017

cobraboy said:
It's funny how one's attitude changes when one morphs from a tourist to a resident.

When I first started coming to the DR in the late 80's, I recall how I felt that the "rules" didn't apply to me, that somehow my tourist status was somewhat a Get Out of Jail Free Card, not that I would do anything that would have landed me in jail.

The same attitude prevailed personally when I returned to the DR starting in 2004. I had changed since my first adventure two decades earlier, but I still had that "bulletproof" feeling. And I knew many who felt more bulletproof than I did. One guy that would hitch a ride down, a meek, mild, balding, pot-bellied milquetoast in Tampa became Porky Bad-Ass as soon as my small plane touched down. Drinking while driving? Pffft! Who's gonna stop him? Pot? No problem, it's everywhere and the chicas dig it.

But when I chose to put my final roots into Dominican soils, far away from the "typical" tourist zones, that attitude changed. I developed an acute sense that I was in Rome now, and needed to respect the Laws of Rome. And the longer I lived in the DR---it's been almost 10 years now---the more aware of not only prevailing law I became but developed a sense of who is trying to help Dominican society, and who thinks the rules don't apply to them.

So the trip in my WayBack Machine got me thinking: what is the correct, proper role of a foreigner travelling or living on DR soil? Do we:

Lead by example

Follow prevailing culture (about which many constantly complain), or

Just ignore it all and do as we damn well, please?

Personally, I'm becoming more and more adopting the first option: lead by example. To a certain extent, this may be of my wife's influence. Alida has always advocate applying all laws equally to all people, and even gives me grief when I don't use turn signals. She says that if Dominicans, many of whom respect gringo "do the right thing" ethos, sees those respectful, lawful actions they reinforce those behaviors in many locals, and those behaviors over time may have a wider effect on the culture & society as a whole.

Could be. I don't know.

I know others who say "the rules don't apply to me, I come here to get away from rules and could care less about prevailing culture or where it goes. It's all about me and my needs"

Others say "Dominicans can get away with it, so I'll try to get away with it, too."

I'm curious where you guys stand. What's your opinion? And are you a frequent tourist on a week or two holidays, snowbirds who come and stay for months on end, or do you live here 24/7/365?

Lead, follow or "screw it?" What say you, and why?

Great question. If you have a dominican spouse whom you respect and you are open minded it is usually better to follow their lead and example in most things. Throwing trash out the window would be an exception

sanpedrogringo · Jun 24, 2017

This is a very down to earth, but yet significant thread. Thank you for taking the time, and having the focus to bring this topic to light. I think people may find some of these answers to be very surprising, and they may erase some preconceived notions that some hold towards others......even without ever meeting them in person. My response to the question at hand is imminent.

judypdr · Jun 24, 2017

I never went through the "I'm a tourist" stage. I moved here and I've stayed here. I try to live here as I have always tried to live by following the 'golden rule' of treating others the way I would like to be treated. I try to do that every day along with a little 'pay it forward' for good measure. I try to perform little acts of generosity when I can, like paying for a soda for a child in line behind me or throwing in a few pesos if someone is a little short at the register. I yield to pedestrians and to traffic when appropriate (and I won't get rear-ended). I don't throw trash on the street and even pick it up occasionally (if it's not too gross). I'll give up my place in line to someone in a hurry and offer a ride to the nice little old lady that sells fruit at the beach. I try to be a good citizen of my world and do no harm and help when I can. I probably tip too much but I think, "I have more than most people" so I'll miss that 100 pesos a lot less than that person will appreciate it. I'm not perfect and I'm sure I could improve in a lot of ways, but I try my best to follow the law, even when others don't. I even try to forgive the motoconchos who continually cut me off... The one thing that annoys me so much that I often confront others about it ... when someone pulls their car up next to mine when I'm trying to pull out onto a major road. Then I can't see and I have to wait while the offender gets to go first. I may get shot one day when I roll down my window and yell at them! Overall, I consider this my country and try to treat it as I would my own home...maybe even better.

windeguy · Jun 24, 2017

I have learned that expats are not the tail that is going to wag this dog. I have probably written that at least 20 times here over the years. So I observe and react with the added insight of being married to someone from the DR. I still use my turn signals, dim my lights (at least some of the time) and do what I would normally do. But I realize there are times when normal does not work.

judypdr · Jun 24, 2017

windeguy said:
I have learned that expats are not the tail that is going to wag this dog. I have probably written that at least 20 times here over the years. So I observe and react with the added insight of being married to someone from the DR. I still use my turn signals, dim my lights (at least some of the time) and do what I would normally do. But I realize there are times when normal does not work.

I have always enjoyed your posts and think I would like you if I met you, but I'm curious about the "times when normal does not work." Without giving yourself any major grief, can you give an example? Maybe PM me? I always wonder what I'm missing that I might encounter in the future that might change my outlook...

william webster · Jun 24, 2017

I, too, am a bit of a hybrid.

I enjoy the freedom... taking a leak beside the road, having a beer in the car on the way home.

I try to ignore the poor driving customs and observe pretty normal habits myself other than when you need to 'do as in Rome' in order to get through an intersection or cross a street... stuck in traffic - unregulated traffic - calls for 'ingenuity' to put it mildly
(that might be an example of normal not working)

Certainly , I treat workers well, don't bash the lines (even call line smashers out on it sometimes)

Mine truly is a mixed bag at times but generally I maintain my principles from NoAmerica....
with my beer exceptions (which , in fairness, I did in NoAmerica) and an odd lapse when I have overdosed on RD or am SOL in a typical RD situation that has no solution.... and that can happen frequently depending on a few things

Sort of a non answer but it's not easy to explain....

CB clearly took some time constructing the question and my response is more hip shooting....

But it poses questions and makes one think.... good idea RC.

Overall, about driving - the old adage 'Safety First' is a good rule to follow.... always

I'll cogitate.......

Derfish · Jun 24, 2017

My own attitude is that it is important to fit in. We are in their country and the sometime Gringo attitude that They should do things the way we learned I find to be ridiculous.
On the other hand when I hit a motorcycle at night who didn't have a headlight on his bike I gave him 1000 pesos and shouted at him that he should buy a headlight because I didn't want to participate in his suicide.
But no the idea that we as Americans have what used to be called "the white man's burden" of training the natives to be civilized is kind of out of line.
Der Fish

beeza · Jun 24, 2017

I have too much at stake to not follow the rules.

A great job, real estate, a family, vehicles and other assets. So I tow the line most of the time.

We could start a whole new thread altogether about driving here. I like to think I am a good, safe driver. I have only had two fender benders in the eleven years I've been here. I am courteous and considerate most of the time. Although I have been known to run the occasional red light in the middle of the night and occasionally drive above the blood alcohol limit of most first world countries, but I don't make a habit of it. Perhaps once a week.

But other than that I am a law abiding citizen. I have my papers in order, I obey the rules and pay my dues. It's not as if the rules are hard to follow in any case. Try living in a Middle Eastern country as a foreigner by comparison.

cobraboy · Jun 24, 2017

windeguy said:
But I realize there are times when normal does not work.

I agree.

An example of what you mean are stoplights.

On a tour, my Prime Objective is getting everyone back to the airport without plaster of Paris or a trip to the ER. So far so good.

Sometimes our group will be in front of stopped vehicles at a stop light. I keep my eyes on the rear view mirrors looking for "that guy" who is genetically driven to run the red light, and get in front of motorcycles no matter what. So I can see him trying to weave through traffic, maybe going into oncoming traffic, to run that light & prove his chops.

So I look both ways and just go, running the red, knowing I had discussed this with guests, and why, and that they'd follow.

Yes, it's illegal. But in this case, "illegal" may keep the Prime Objective intact.

Another is I don't always abide by The Golden Rule. Sometimes my Spidey Senses go off when I meet someone on the streets or in a store. My sense says "no good, beware." So my reaction to "mah fren" can be a clenched jaw and cold stare and maybe a curt "Nos conocemos? Yo no soy tu amigo" or if they speak English "When were you deported?" I don't *like* doing that, but common sense tells me it's the best strategery.

But if my Spidey Senses are at DefCon 5 or HSAS Green, big smile and a handshake.

It's a fine line and balance between Doing the Right Thing/Golden Rule, and Self-Preservation.

cobraboy · Jun 24, 2017

william webster said:
I'll cogitate.......

Here?

:speechles :speechles :speechles

In public?

cobraboy · Jun 24, 2017

Drperson said:
Throwing trash out the window would be an exception

I hate that.

I'll bet on a dozen occasions I've picked up litter thrown from a car and gave it back to the perp. If I could.

Usually I just put it under their windshield wipers and not hand it to them through the window.

beeza · Jun 24, 2017

cobraboy said:
It's a fine line and balance between Doing the Right Thing/Golden Rule, and Self-Preservation.

Agreed. In our home countries, what would many people do if first on the scene of a horrific traffic accident? Answer, help of course. Administer first-aid, call the emergency services, and generally try to help the unfortunate individual. Sadly these altruistic acts can get you into a lot of bother if you do the same here.

keepcoming · Jun 24, 2017

Over 23 years now and of course my attitude has changed. Following the laws makes life a bit more peaceful, less to worry about. However I have learned it does not always go according to plan no matter how best one tries to do the right thing. Thinking that the rules do not apply to you because your special is a recipe for disaster as they say. For the most part I try to do my part, follow the rules of the road (as much as allowed), definitely no throwing garbage out the window, into the street, etc...

I do not look at it like leading by example (unless it is for my children). It is just the normal way of life for me. I do not worry about what others can get away with, to each his/hers own. I have never been a "if he/she can do it well so can I" sort of person. As long as I know I am doing the right thing, abiding by laws and what is asked of me then I am good. I would like to think however I have set a example for my children as that is what matters. I really do not give much thought as to what the rest think.

ju10prd · Jun 24, 2017

Having travelled to and lived in a number of developing countries and specifically in the Caribbean, I believe it appropriate to respect local laws and show understanding to the local population. As expatriates we will never be fully accepted into any Caribbean culture nor here in DR even if we have a Dominican spouse. Not accepting local values may be seen as being arrogant foreigners and behind the apparent warmth and smiles one may be surprised to find a level of hostility and resentment. But not all foreigners visiting or living in DR encounter normal Dominican society. In general they encounter Dominicans who have migrated to resort areas and to specifically exploit foreigners. Dominican society can be most welcoming even at a professional level away from the foreigner clusters when they see the foreigner has adapted to the culture and has embedded themselves into the country and are following the rules.

As I have said before, when you live in a foreign country it is best you isolate yourself from the expat community to enjoy your life fuller, and in my case unlike some other foreigners I live independently and follow the rules in each and every country I visit and live, and would expect the same of any person living in my country of birth. More importantly for me is to demonstrate my total respect for my Dominican partner by respecting her country which is the one where I have chosen to live against all others.

I wouldn't say I should lead by example, rather I should live as best I can as a foreigner like a good Roman in Rome.

cobraboy · Jun 24, 2017

ju10prd said:
But not all foreigners visiting or living in DR encounter normal Dominican society. In general they encounter Dominicans who have migrated to resort areas and to specifically exploit foreigners. Dominican society can be most welcoming even at a professional level away from the foreigner clusters when they see the foreigner has adapted to the culture and has embedded themselves into the country and are following the rules.

Exactly.

My personal experience has been that when those in the professional classes understand your efforts to be respectful of the culture, you are embraced. Will you be one of them? That depends on the personalities involved. In the states there are those who won't accept you culturally either.

2dlight · Jun 24, 2017

Great thread starter CB. I am both new and old here having left the DR when the population was only 3,600,000.This current trip is my fifth since leaving, so my attitude, perception and behavior are tempered by having lived most of my adult life outside the country,while at the same time maintaining ties with cousins etc. I still find the things that annoyed me on my first trip back: the disregard for the environment, living for today only, getting any advantage you can over someone, too many people who are experts at everything without any training(politics, religion, medicine, finances, geography, geology and space travel)who've never left the country. I have, however, met people willing to help, offer sound advice without personal gain and welcome me because I treat them with respect. I won't drive here until I'm permanent and I don't throw trash anywhere but in trash can and my taxi driver loves me because I hire him for the day when I'm not feeling Caribetours.

Expats, Snowbirds & Tourists : Lead, Follow or Ignore?

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