Citizenship update

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
5,485
338
63
I applied to be a Dominican citizen in November 2014. After a couple of document hiccups (UK birth cert was over 6 months old), then they needed divorce cert from husband No. 1, I was interviewed and passed in March 2015. I was told it would take maximum 6 months to do a DNI, DNCD and Interpol check and then I would be sworn in.

I was told to call every month or so, and always the same answer - waiting for Interpol. Lawyer friends and a translator friend, Olga, went physically to the Ministry of Interior and Police and always the same answer, waiting for Interpol.

Fast forward to April 2017, and the Ministry told friend Olga that if I had a police report from home country and buena conducta from here then that would override the non existent Interpol report. I did as requested and submitted.

Called every 2 weeks - in process. Eventually, mid August, so a week or so ago, Olga made an appointment for me to see a head honcho. In the meantime a lady at the same stage as me, who applied at the same time as me had been sent a list of the requirements she needed after submitting her police report - as her file had been processed and mine was still "in process".

These requirements included: renewing residency (when we both applied women married to Dominicans didn't need residency), redoing all certificates (as all older than 6 months), bank and employment details for both husband and wife, notarized document signed by 3 witnesses to say you live here, copy of every single page of passport, guarantee from husband (notarized) to say will pay for wife's maintenance and deportation if needed (how can you deport a citizen?), Certificate from Immigration to prove movement in and out of the country. There maybe more - I forget.

Before having aheart attack I wrote a paper going through each requirement and then referenced to the various laws to show they were illegal. The paper is in Spanish but if anyone wants it let me have a pm.

I went to the meeting prepared to fight. There was no need. The head honcho said of course I did not need residency, but took my old card to copy, also took my new virgin passport to copy each one of the blank pages. I said I was a writer and gave her my two books - so no need for employment information. As the books were too big for the file (!) she asked me for a writing CV. In addition I was asked for a buena conducta for my husband which I paid for at BanReservas there and Naturalization did it on their computer. I was asked to provide the standard bank letter from my bank, and the notarized document to say I lived here, and if I could promise to supply those within 3 days I could now pay my RD$5,000 pesos fee and I was scheduled to be sworn in on August 31.

They could not have been more helpful and she said they would only ask for the minimum requirements, so it appears the never ending list of new requirements does not need to be totally adhered to. Interestingly the head honcho asked why I had not been personally since my interview some 2.5 years ago and I said that I was always told waiting for Interpol, or in process so no point in going. She made it clear to me that had I gone personally before things would not have taken this long as they like to meet those who are going to be citizens, not just their lawyers or representatives.

So journey almost over, but for those thinking about it, don't panic at the list of requirements as it appears there is significant flexibility.

Matilda
 

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
42,211
5,966
113
The flexibility you achieved seems to me was available by the back door method. Not necessarily available to others in the same way.

The absolute stupidity of documents expiring during the processing time is what troubles me the most and what will apparently keep me from taking this route, which at one time seemed quite easy.

The absolute stupidity of a birth certificate ever expiring is the top of that pile of nonsense.
 

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
5,485
338
63
I don't think it was back door, and I was prepared to fight against the expiration of documents as that is contrary to the ruling of the JCE who determined that they don't expire, so what was on the list was illegal - ie that they have to be less than 6 months old. I just think that the person I saw was sensible and knew that the requirements were absurd. As I said I think it is about having a relationship with the office that makes the difference.
Plus I gave the name of the person I had the meeting with to someone at the same stage as me, she has called, and she also has been given the same degree of flexibility and given she applied before residency was needed she does not have to renew that either.
So it's not just me.

Matilda
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Sounds like a mess: rules that aren't rules and a bureaucracy that doesn't even know which rules are what.

I'm dipping into that pond very shortly and get conflicting info.
 

dulce

Silver
Jan 1, 2002
2,524
211
63
The flexibility you achieved seems to me was available by the back door method. Not necessarily available to others in the same way.

The absolute stupidity of documents expiring during the processing time is what troubles me the most and what will apparently keep me from taking this route, which at one time seemed quite easy.

The absolute stupidity of a birth certificate ever expiring is the top of that pile of nonsense.

IF she was going to do the process through the back door she would have done that in 2014 when she started the process. :smoke:
 

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
42,211
5,966
113
IF she was going to do the process through the back door she would have done that in 2014 when she started the process. :smoke:

What are the odds of meeting the head honcho of the process for any one else who runs into the morons beneath said head honcho so those morons can be told where to go? That is what I meant by back door method.
 

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
5,485
338
63
What are the odds of meeting the head honcho of the process for any one else who runs into the morons beneath said head honcho so those morons can be told where to go? That is what I meant by back door method.

Well have given cell phone number and name of head honcho to others in the process and she has agreed to meetings with them so I think the odds would be good. The learning from this is don't be fobbed off, ask to meet the person above the moron, and the expat way of making life easier by getting someone to hand in stuff for you, does not necessarily work in this case. She told me she likes to meet the husbands and the wives of those doing the citizenship by marriage route.

The office was incredibly quiet compared to how I remember it, so I think the rush to apply has maybe slowed down a bit.

Matilda
 

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
42,211
5,966
113
Well have given cell phone number and name of head honcho to others in the process and she has agreed to meetings with them so I think the odds would be good. The learning from this is don't be fobbed off, ask to meet the person above the moron, and the expat way of making life easier by getting someone to hand in stuff for you, does not necessarily work in this case. She told me she likes to meet the husbands and the wives of those doing the citizenship by marriage route.

The office was incredibly quiet compared to how I remember it, so I think the rush to apply has maybe slowed down a bit.

Matilda

Thank you. There is always a chance that things are different and can be handled in a manner that makes sense for everyone in the same situation.
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
Phew! One question though. I've never been told that women married to Dominicans didn't need residency at any point in the last 20 years.
 

AlterEgo

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 9, 2009
23,097
6,247
113
South Coast
Phew! One question though. I've never been told that women married to Dominicans didn't need residency at any point in the last 20 years.



That was the law until 2014.  It was challenged by a man married to a Dominican woman, and instead of giving the men that same privilege, they took it away from the women.  Typical.  
 

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
5,485
338
63
Phew! One question though. I've never been told that women married to Dominicans didn't need residency at any point in the last 20 years.

Alterego is correct. However, if you read the actually ruling (which I did) and the relevant law it refers to (which I did), it says that the spouse has to have resided in the country for 6 months. It does not say that the spouse has to have held residency issued by Migracion. Now the law was enacted in 1948 (probably before Migracion existed) but it has not been replaced. If you are thinking of doing it, do it before your residency expires and with 6 months remaining which is a Naturalizacion requirement. Mine expired mid 2014 and just having a copy of the card to show I had had residency previously was sufficient. As I say the law does not say that - the naturalization requirements just have it as one of their requirements - it is not written anywhere in the law.

Matilda
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
I now realise you meant they didn't need residency as a prerequisite for becoming a citizen, not that they didn't need residency. Correct?
 

cavok

Silver
Jun 16, 2014
9,527
4,045
113
Cabarete
Alterego is correct. However, if you read the actually ruling (which I did) and the relevant law it refers to (which I did), it says that the spouse has to have resided in the country for 6 months. It does not say that the spouse has to have held residency issued by Migracion. Now the law was enacted in 1948 (probably before Migracion existed) but it has not been replaced. If you are thinking of doing it, do it before your residency expires and with 6 months remaining which is a Naturalizacion requirement. Mine expired mid 2014 and just having a copy of the card to show I had had residency previously was sufficient. As I say the law does not say that - the naturalization requirements just have it as one of their requirements - it is not written anywhere in the law.

Matilda

When I spoke with Licelotte Minaya of Guzman Ariza about this last year she said that I had to be a legal resident for 6 months before I could apply for citizenship and that, if everything went right with the paperwork, I might not have to do a renewal(?).
 

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
5,485
338
63
I now realise you meant they didn't need residency as a prerequisite for becoming a citizen, not that they didn't need residency. Correct?

Up until the ruling by the Constitution or was it Superior, Court, women did not need to be holding residency with 6 months at least to run in order to apply to be a citizen. Men did. That changed for women as discussed in May 2015. In fact women at that time did not need to have ever held residency just needed to have been here and been married to a Dominican for 6 months.

Matilda
 

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
5,485
338
63
When I spoke with Licelotte Minaya of Guzman Ariza about this last year she said that I had to be a legal resident for 6 months before I could apply for citizenship and that, if everything went right with the paperwork, I might not have to do a renewal(?).

As far as I am aware you will not have to do a renewal however long the process takes as you are in process. The Ministry will give you a letter confirming that which you can use to prove you are legal.

Matilda
 

JD Jones

Moderator:North Coast,Santo Domingo,SW Coast,Covid
Jan 7, 2016
11,697
8,127
113
At times I feel like making a cold call to that office and having a face to face with the folks there, tell them what I've got, and ask what I need to make it happen.

I bet I would be given a very short list.
 

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
5,485
338
63
At times I feel like making a cold call to that office and having a face to face with the folks there, tell them what I've got, and ask what I need to make it happen.

I bet I would be given a very short list.

The latest list runs to three pages for those married to Dominicans - it used to be one page lol. If you would like a copy just pm me with your email. Of course the chances are it will change tomorrow.

Matilda
 

JD Jones

Moderator:North Coast,Santo Domingo,SW Coast,Covid
Jan 7, 2016
11,697
8,127
113
The latest list runs to three pages for those married to Dominicans - it used to be one page lol. If you would like a copy just pm me with your email. Of course the chances are it will change tomorrow.

Matilda

Yep, I've seen it. I'm just wondering what would happen if I cold called them and started chatting. A lot of these folks in Govt. offices will really go out of their way to help folks. (Not all, but I've run across a lot of them)
 

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
5,485
338
63
Yep, I've seen it. I'm just wondering what would happen if I cold called them and started chatting. A lot of these folks in Govt. offices will really go out of their way to help folks. (Not all, but I've run across a lot of them)

Correct which is what happened to me this time. They appeared to have all thrown their "jobsworth" hats out of the window. A lovely and very pleasant surprise.

Matilda
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
UPDATE:

We spoke to our lawyer, the general that many DR1ers use for residency. She is fairly well connected.

She said that many immigration lawyers are equally baffled about the change in citizenship requirements, and many of the changes are PN driven, with different departments putting their fingerprints on the new requirements.

There will be a meeting on Thursday between association lawyers and several gubmint bureaucrats regarding these specific issues. Her advice is to stay put until this meeting of the minds comes up with something more concrete and common sense.

Thank you, Lindsay, for bringing up this topic. I hope your trailblazing benefits all!