I know this sounds a little lame but... [in Spanish]

Pib

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Jan 1, 2002
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I got this by email

LOS DOMINICANOS SOMOS RICOS..........?

Un Dominicano le env?a un mail con una pregunta a otro Dominicano que radica en los Estados Unidos de Norteamerica:

"Y oigo que uds. son ricos all? en EEUU..."

Respuesta del Dominicano que vive en EE.UU.:

Juan, como se ve que los ?rboles no te dejan ver el bosque.
como puedes llamarte pobre, cuando eres capaz de pagar un
metro c?bico de agua m?s del doble de lo que pago yo. Cuando te das el lujo de pagar tarifas de electricidad y/o de tel?fono un 60% m?s caras de lo que me cuestan a mi.

O cuando por un carro que a mi me cuesta U.S. $10,000 tu puedes pagar US$28,000 porque tu si puedes darte el gusto de regalarle US$18,000 d?lares al gobierno y nosotros no; pinche Juan, NO TE ENTIENDO!.

Pobres somos nosotros los habitantes de la Florida, ya que el
Gobierno Estatal, teniendo en cuenta nuestra precaria situaci?n
financiera, nos cobra solo el 2% (hay otro 4% que es Federal; total =6%) de impuestos por I.V.A. y no 12% como a ustedes los ricos que viven en Rep. Dominicana.

Adem?s, son ustedes los que tienen "Impuestos de Lujo" (por
Alcohol, cigarrillos, puros, cerveza, vinos, etc.) que alcanza
hasta el 120% de impuesto, o los otros.

Porque si ustedes no fueran ricos, qu? sentido tendr?a tener unos impuestos de ese calibre? Pobre? De donde? Un pa?s que es capaz de cobrar el Impuesto sobre la renta POR ADELANTADO
como Rep. Dominicana, NECESARIAMENTE tiene que nadar en la
abundancia porque asume que los negocios de la rep?blica y TODOS sus habitantes SIEMPRE tendr?n ganancias y, por supuesto, como su nombre lo indica: RICOS.

Los pobres somos nosotros que NO pagamos Impuesto sobre la Renta si ganamos menos de US$3,000 al mes POR PERSONA. Y all? pagan polic?a privada, mientras que nosotros nos conformamos con la p?blica. Y env?an a los hijos a colegios privados y mira si seremos pobres aqu? en USA, que las escuelas publicas te prestan los libros de estudio previendo que no tengas
con que comprarlos.

A veces me pongo verde de envidia pensando que cuando en
Rep. Dominicana sacan un pr?stamo cualquiera, son capaces de pagar 23% anual de intereses, como m?nimo. -ESO ES SER RICO! No como aqu?, que apenas llegamos al 8% (generalmente 7.8%), justamente porque NO estamos en condiciones de pagar mas.

Supongo que como todo rico, tienes un carro y que estas pagando un 6 o 7% anual de seguro; si te sirve de informaci?n, yo pago solo US$345 por a?o. Saca la cuenta. ?Qui?n es el rico, y qui?n el pobre?

Vamos, hermano; te quedaste porque eres RICO. Son los pobres como yo los que nos fuimos...
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
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You ain't kidding, costs me more to live here than in Miami.
Saying that, living here has certain perks :)
 

MommC

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Mar 2, 2002
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Well....my spanish isn't that great but the writer of this piece makes sense.......Everyone in the Dominican Republic MUST be rich if they can afford to pay all the things mentioned above.
The sad thing is if you're an extranjero you must pay even MORE than the Dominicans to live here!!!
:D
 

DRtechie

"everyday is a holiday"
Jan 27, 2002
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with that said, how would I determine what the cost of living in DR would be as opposed to NY or anywhere in the US? Many companies offer cost of living adjustments but how would I go about negotiating something like that for DR?
 

MommC

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Mar 2, 2002
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See thread-Cost of living in Dr.....

Also to give you a basic idea....I live here much the same as I do in Canada (keeping in mind hubby and I aren't doing the party scene every weekend!!). We eat out once or twice a week,buy the same type of groceries,same clothes, same amount on gas for car,repairs are a bit cheaper,. We pay an equivalent amount for electricity,more for phone and internet and health insurance.
Golf is expensive so don't play as much as we do at home.
End result.....I spend about as much a month here as I do back in Canada.
Now if you want to live like an average Dominican, lower quality housing,platanos,yucca, arroz/abichuela for meals,stay in, cell phone for incoming calls,motoconcho's/quaqua and spend all the rest of your money on "brugal" on weekend......you can live pretty cheap.
 

MommC

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Mar 2, 2002
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Hey Criss......

Wanna deal wih INAPA for us.....or maybe AES..........
Maybe the difference is because you live here year round.
Do you have your "cedula" I.E. "residencia"?
We pay less on the golf course because hubby "works" here so we get Dominican rates.....I'm still trying to find out where the guy on another thread buys his bottled water for 13 pesos.....it's 15-18 here in JD.
And when we "lost" our phone to Hurricane Geaorge the only way Codetel would give us another one was if we took V.I.P. service even tho' we'd had a phone since 1990 with continuous service. They told us they were no longer putting in "servicio basica". So I pay RD$660. per month for my phone while my next door neighbour pays RD$225. for basic service.
Their power bill also runs about RD$160 per month while I pay RD$350-400 when I'm here and RD$550-650 when I'm in Canada. Same appliances,same # of lights,no air conditioning,no televisore. I've been fighting with them for three months now (taken in our passports to have them photo-copied three times,letter from building administrator & cerano to say we weren't here, a kazillion phone calls and as many visits to the office etc.etc.) to get a credit on my account (like all they have to do is come and "read" the contador!!!!!!)
So when in the DR it's very different than being in Rome (my husband grew up in Rome!!! :D)
 

AZB

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Jan 2, 2002
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I agree with criss. I pay as much or less as dominicans. It all depends on knowing the system and how to fine tune it to your advantage. Must learn to speak spanish and learn to think like dominicans so you would know their angle even before you start the negotiation.
One thing you would find out that an average dominican know far less about anything of, so called "information" than us extranjeros. Ex: if you ask a dominican where can you get your fridge repaired, you would get a simple answer "dejame investigar"; mean, "let me find out for you....". If you ask them where can I get my car repaired for cheaper price, you will get the same answer. If you ask them where can I have furniture custom made cheaper than the department store showroom prices, you get the same stupid answer.
so the bottom line is this: it doesn't matter if you are extranjero or a dominican, if you don't know the ropes, you will pay more. If you buy your used car from a lot or buy your foreign brand label food items in expensive super markets or eat in touristy restaurants then you will pay the pirce for your ignorance.
In my case, I came came to santiago with very little money in hand (lost it all in puerto plata). I investigated on my own of the following because I didn't have the money to buy name brand furniture. I went to wood shops and spoke to furniture makers. I showed them pictures of furniture from internet and asked them to copy it in coaba wood. They offered me reasonable prices and got it made in less than half the price than the furniture stores.
Then i went to a person who made good quality sofas for furniture stores. I showed him pictures of the style that I was interested in and asked for a good prices. then i went out to buy the cloth of my choice and had him make the sofas, again, for half the price of stores. I did the same for almost everything that I needed in the house. I did my home work and I saved. When they were charging me 10 times as much for electric i went to endenorte and fought like a tigre. they came to my house, inspected the place and asked me to install the meter right outside the house where it can be read easily. I did just that and now I pay like everyone else.
Another way to fix problems quickly is to know the dominicans who work in public service places. I see over and over again that the extranjeros never interact with the local dominicans. They always keep to themselves. In order to survive in this country with ease, you must have friends here. Its called networking, get to know dominicans and you will see how much time and aggravation you will save when time of trouble arises. Ex: if my car gets towed away or if I get a ticket for any traffice violation, i simply go to the cheif of police of amet on duty, tell him who i know and things get resolved right on the spot.
My friend's jeepita got towed away because his driver didn't carry car papers, unseatbelted and without license. That was a major series of offenses. I simply called my friend in the governor's office, he made the call to amet police station and the whole thing was resolved in minutes. Upon arrival, i found out the police chief at the station was a friend of mine and a supervisor was at my home for a BBQ party. Needless to say, how the whole issuse was resolves over a conversation of laughters and appologies on their part for causing us so much trouble.
i have friends who work in tricom phone company. All my problems get resolved in less than a day.
Coronel of policia national is a personal friend of mine; this almost guarantees that an average policeman can't touch me for BS reasons.
So you get my point, get involved with dominicans on personal bases and learn to understand and think like them. Believe me, this will save you alot of aggravation in the end.
 

MommC

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Mar 2, 2002
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Ahem......

Maybe works in Santiago...but not so well in SanPedro and Juan Dolio......The lady we deal with at AES in San Pedro is the wife of a very good friend of ours who lives in Guayacanes....at my place at least three x so far for dinners and a birthday bar-b-q for his best friend(also a good friend of ours). My hubby speaks Spanish very well (it came easy for him-he was born and raised in Italy and the two languages are VERY similar) and once he's been here a while he looks Dominican (only the name gives us away).
We formed a delegation last year of citizens of JD some "nationals", some "residente", some extraneros, and went to INAPA first in SP, then to the "capital". Had a very interesting conversation with one of the "big" bosses (even spoke very good English to me when I asked a question in very "poor" spanish!) What was even more interesting was that they pulled files on all the residents who were there and all the extranjeros. But the best of all was when they couldn't find even a "single" file for any of the "nationals" from our area!!!!! Hmmmmm! I wonder why???? That might explain why the nationals hadn't received "facturas" for their well water usage or been visited by an armed guard and a n employee of INAPA to disconnect water pumps. They came because they thought their "factura" had just been "delalyed"!
We had drinks and play pool with several "generals and colonels" from the Policia National and the Militar every Monday night at a local cafe........
The fellow we bought our apt. from is one of "Hippo's" advisors. He comes with his family to spend the day once or twice every year. The lawyer who looked after the paper work for our vehicle purchase is heavily involved with "Hippo's" party- we even bought raffle tickets from him before the last election to "help" the party and we buy our insurance from his wife. My hubby refuses to be intimidated by the "traffic" police and has yet in 14 yrs. to pay a ticket or give a "propina" so as not to get one.
Shall I continue?????
 

Pib

Goddess
Jan 1, 2002
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Maybe I should meet with AZB and Criss and get some advice from them. I am Dominican, 100%, speak above-average Spanish, have been living in DR all my life and yet I am one of those suckers...

I pay 24% interest on my mortgage. I strongly complained to my bank, even threatened to switch to another bank only to find out that no other bank would "transfer" the debt because it's not a "new purchase". How would you work that out? Waiting untill to win the lottery to buy your house "cash"?

I pay income taxes, I am not given a choice, it's taken straight out of my paycheck. How do you work that out? Making less money? Being unemployed?

I pay sales taxes, just like anybody else. How do I avoid it? Not buying anything?

I am not paying high interests on a car purchase because I cannot afford a brand-new one. I must have a vehicle to do my job, conchos is not a choice. What would you do? Buy a bike?

If I want to go out I pay the same heavy taxes on drinks that everyone does, not matter what I drink, be it Brugal or Dom Perignon. Not drinking sounds like the only choice to me. Would you?

Yes, you may cut on a few scattered once-in-a-year costs. But day to day life is just as expensive to everyone. Do Codetel give discounts for being Dominican? I sure as hell don't get mine.

Do Edesur give discounts to Dominicans? I sure as hell don't get mine. And I get disc'd if I don't pay. Wouldn't I know. Today was bills-paying day. I am not really friedly now... :mad:
 
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MommC

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Mar 2, 2002
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Heh Heh....Criss!

Like as I was typing my last post to this thread, there was a back-hoe in the parking lot digging a trench to put pipes to connect to the aquaduct (if it ever get finished!!!) They work for the company that is repairing the aquaduct...and we "hired" them on their lunch break to dig the trench for us. RD$500 for the 50 ft. of trench plus the pipe plus the connection to the main aquaduct!!(another RD$225.). Do you know what the company wanted to do this job???? Take a "wild" guess and it will be too low!!!!
I buy my seafood and fish from the local fisherman for the price they sell to the restaurants and pescaderia's. If they don't have a good catch the local pescaderia gives me a very good price because they know I buy on a regular basis.
I get my beef and goat(chibo) from a local fellow who calls me when he is killing an animal and we go and pick up what we want while the meat is still "hot" before it's had a chance to cool. Very good prices.......The fruit vendor makes sure I get the best he has or tells me to wait until tomorrow (although he may have a full stand) because he knows if the fruit is not good I'll buy elsewhere next time (i buy fruit every two days)....so yes I do know how to make my pesos go farther but there is lots you just can't work around.....as Pib pointed out.
Why are some people treated more "equally" than others?
(There are two Dom. families in this building (RICO) -their weekend getaway place) who have not paid for electricity in all the years I've lived here. But every weekend the air-conditioner and stereo go full blast....they've even left for the week with the "air" still on!!)
 

Moving to DR

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Apr 4, 2002
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Message to AZB

I was going through some old threads and was interested to hear about your solution for furniture. My husband (Cuban) and myself (British-Welsh) are moving to DR when school ends this year. He is already in DR sorting out papers and house. I would really appreciate you informing as to the location of some carpenters, furniture makers, etc. since starting from scratch is expensive. Cheers.
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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An excellent post, there, PIB. It brings things into perspective.

As for cost of living? AZB is right that in getting to know people a lot of stuff can be solved. Also going slow and going to the source is a way to save money.

As for the costs of lights and other public services, we are paying for theyears of ineptness and lack of planning on the part of every government since Trujillo. An example is the Santiago water works, now 10 years past its planned capacity date.

Santo Domingo is worse. You guys will be hauling in water on burros before long. Seems like we need a few good hurricanes to get this island doused really good.

HB