Culture shock - NO MEN TO POST

Matilda

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Sep 13, 2006
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Since I have lived in the DR, some 17 years, I know that I have gone through the so called four stages of Culture Shock : Honeymoon, Frustration, Adjustment and finally Acceptance. Thank goodness I am now in the last stage, but over the years I have seen several friends and acquaintances leave during the frustration phase. What do you think causes the frustrations in the frustration phase and why does it get so bad that people go?

Matilda
 

keepcoming

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May 25, 2011
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Hmmm..well the unwillingness to adapt and/or change. Coming from the USA, Europe, Canada, etc...we are use to comforts. We expect things like lights, running water, etc..where as our Dominican spouse (boyfriend, etc..) is much more adaptable. No lights, no problem. No water, no problem,etc... The little things turn into big things, etc... Of course there are the more serious issues at times such as infidelity (for some),etc... I have seen other frustrations. One is thinking solely about today and not tomorrow when it may come to finances. It is not easy, but in the end for many there comes that moment when you realize the little things do not matter so much. You begin to see there is much more to the relationship than the small petty things. You being to appreciate the relationship and accept it for all the good and bad.
 

janlindy

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Mar 8, 2011
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After living on a boat the "little things" like power & water don't frustrate me . It's the "gringo always pays" It's the one price for you and one price for a local. It's the be legal stay above the law when the law changes frquently. BUT I am not leaving and have moved on to the adjustment stage.
 

sylindr

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Nov 29, 2007
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I am here 9 years and currently in the frustration stage, we shall see if I make it through. I am soooo tired of getting one thing fixed but they break two other things in the meantime..... I am sure it will pass as I have been through small stages of this in the past but this is a little different and am contemplating selling my home and either renting or moving back time will tell i guess
 

Africaida

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I am curious Matilda....Do you think these stages, especially frustration, are different for a woman living in DR ?
 

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
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I am curious Matilda....Do you think these stages, especially frustration, are different for a woman living in DR ?

I don't think so. I know that everyone goes through the honeymoon phase, loving the joie de vivre of the Dominicans, the dancing, the music, the colmado, the weather but after different periods of time, in my case a few years, the fun things are overshadowed by the annoying things like the noise, corruption, mosquitos, stealing, lack of respect etc. I think those who just come on holiday tend to stay in the honeymoon phase indefinitely. I think all the research shows that both men and women got through the same phases - the time comes when the things you love about the DR are replaced by the things you miss about your home country - especially the food! But once you get through the frustration phase, and become more at peace with the things you can't change, then people tend to move into acceptance and indeed have no desire to go and live back in their home country - or they return and regret it.

Matilda
 

Africaida

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I don't think so. I know that everyone goes through the honeymoon phase, loving the joie de vivre of the Dominicans, the dancing, the music, the colmado, the weather but after different periods of time, in my case a few years, the fun things are overshadowed by the annoying things like the noise, corruption, mosquitos, stealing, lack of respect etc. I think those who just come on holiday tend to stay in the honeymoon phase indefinitely. I think all the research shows that both men and women got through the same phases - the time comes when the things you love about the DR are replaced by the things you miss about your home country - especially the food! But once you get through the frustration phase, and become more at peace with the things you can't change, then people tend to move into acceptance and indeed have no desire to go and live back in their home country - or they return and regret it.

Matilda

I understand I was just asking since it is in the Ladies only forum.

I among the lucky ones as I just come on the holidays, so things don't bother me as much as I am not there long enough. Again, many of the things that bothers expats in general, been through it as my family comes from a developing country. I do speak Spanish, so yeah, I get the ocasional whatsapp whether it s a medical bills, a telefono that I am supposed to bring back (the last request was a family member of my ninera who needed to pay back a loan at the bank hoy !!), but thanks to years of training with my own family, I am an expert at finding excuses, I am always broke :laugh:

Having said that, I feel that living in DR as a woman seem to be harder (i could be wrong of course) because of the machista mentality. I find men charming most of the times, but the attention can get super annoying for example*. Or, the fact that they always feel like they know better, some ready to explain your own country *sigh* In my case, it would probably that aspect of the culture shock that would annoy me the most, but i guess you don't know until you lived it.

*It goes both ways of course, listening to women complaining about their men, yet you realise 5 years later that they still with the same guys (after a brief stint apart).
 
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Matilda

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It is in this forum so that there can be a sensible discussion without the machista mentality lol. And has a good chance of staying on topic. I think the fact that you speak Spanish is a major advantage, the lack of communication ability often becomes a major frustration especially when dealing with authorities. The fact that you can get out of Dodge and only come for a short time, and also the fact that you come from a developing country again also help dramatically.
I really don't think it is much harder being a woman, in my opinion we tend to get less frustrated than the men, but having said that for those ladies here alone it cannot be easy.
Yes the men always know better - especially better than a foreigner and even better than a foreign woman lol. The things which annoyed me the most were my husband's family coming and taking over the house - cleaning it, washing my clean clothes, cooking everything in sight, but now i try and invite them when I have expat guests coming as I know they will clean the house from top to bottom, and they are not trying to say I don't clean, it is the way of saying thank you for having us. Me not understanding the culture at the beginning.
The other major annoyance was me shopping for a week and the kids eating everything on day one. I didn't realise they didn't do weekly shops, nor the sharing culture. "This is mine" was not understood. Padlock on the fridge sorts that!

Matilda
 

AlterEgo

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Jan 9, 2009
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I think I skipped the honeymoon, we both are firmly planted in the frustration department, but we’ve made a lot of adjustments that help a lot.  Can’t say either of us reached the acceptance stage, and that’s more so with him than me.  Our stress levels there, as opposed to NJ, are through the roof.  

I do think if we lived in “civilization “, i.e. Santo Domingo, even someplace like Bayahibe or even Juan Dolio, it might improve our life somewhat over living where we do, but who knows?

Once we receive medical clearance for him, we’ll head back down, but we both have decided that 3 months at a time is about our maximum, after four +, we’re both over-aggravated. 
 

mountainannie

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I don't think I ever intended to stay. Actually I never really intended to GO there - was just waiting for things to CHILL in Haiti in order to move there - but from 2004 to 2016 - they never did. My first landing in Las Terrenas was a shock - because I knew that I was at least going to be there - somewhere - for 10 years - til Medicare or the like. But lots of the gringas who came down were looking for a Boy Toy of some sort so it was assumed that I was like that.. I put a stop to that by becoming a volunteer teacher and so got along OK up there. It was pretty sad to hear the moto concho boys offer to "come in" after they dropped me off.. and had a bit of an adjustment to the mostly European women who would buy them with a pair of jeans..... Certainly nothing I was used to...

I befriended one woman - who had gotten embroiled with and married to a Dominican - had two children by him.. and I could only stand aside and weep for her - grateful that I was beyond that age of wanting - really - either the man or the children.

It was pretty amazing to me that I actually stayed as long as I did - but I had interesting work and made a few friends along the way and had a Devoted Staff.. amazing.. to have STAFF!! and the devotion was quite extraordinary..."qualqier cosa tu me llames" --- I am still in touch with both of my "hermanas" via FB - one has my dog.

I did have two "involvements" but they were reasonably mature and eyes open...

What finally really convinced me that I would have to leave in the end rather than stay was that it was a family place... and that I had no family there....

And that no one knew my songs....
 

ChelseaRose

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Jul 16, 2017
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I'm relatively new to the island (15 months), living in SD, planning on staying at least 5 years. I'm definitely in the honeymoon period- I love it here! I also find I'm a very flexible person, used to living and traveling in less-than-perfect situations and countries, so it doesn't bother me when we run out of water, the power goes out, etc. What I continually struggle with is the machismo and the cat calling on the street. At this point, I've learned to say hello first, and take it as a complement. But that doesn't help with guys who yell at me from their car - things in Spanish I'm sure I'm glad I can't translate. At what point does it just fade into the background? Or when will I just get completely fed up with it?

My american husband and I are about to renovate a small house in la zona colonial, and I'm nervous about the gringo tax... I don't want this to be an argument every step of the way. We are making friends with some locals and I realize that it's all about who you know- this person's cousin's friend is a plumber and that one can rebuild your wall, etc. I'm learning to think like a local, and use my (slowly growing) network. I'm not used to leaning on friends so much, but it seems like that's the way to do it here- use your connections.
 

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
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Good luck with the renovation - just be aware most things will need doing twice and you know nothing, even if you know they are doing it wrong! The Colonial Zone is beautiful. Also keep the tools used under lock and key as every time you paint for example you will have to buy new brushes - and tools have a habit of going awol. Try and see some examples of work these guys have done before as everyone claims they can build walls, do plumbing, are electricians and car mechanics but usually they don't have a clue and the main tools are kitchen knives (hide those too) a machete, a large rock oh and of course taypee.

Matilda
 

mountainannie

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I'm relatively new to the island (15 months), living in SD, planning on staying at least 5 years. I'm definitely in the honeymoon period- I love it here! I also find I'm a very flexible person, used to living and traveling in less-than-perfect situations and countries, so it doesn't bother me when we run out of water, the power goes out, etc. What I continually struggle with is the machismo and the cat calling on the street. At this point, I've learned to say hello first, and take it as a complement. But that doesn't help with guys who yell at me from their car - things in Spanish I'm sure I'm glad I can't translate. At what point does it just fade into the background? Or when will I just get completely fed up with it?

My american husband and I are about to renovate a small house in la zona colonial, and I'm nervous about the gringo tax... I don't want this to be an argument every step of the way. We are making friends with some locals and I realize that it's all about who you know- this person's cousin's friend is a plumber and that one can rebuild your wall, etc. I'm learning to think like a local, and use my (slowly growing) network. I'm not used to leaning on friends so much, but it seems like that's the way to do it here- use your connections.

Sadly - if you want the catcalls etc -- to stop - you will have to really modify (perhaps?) your dress and/or your walk.. I remember walking down the Malecon in a dress that I adored -- had worn a lot in the States - nothing revealing - but it was clingy - and had lots of flounce in the skirt... and I was happy and sort of perhaps bouncy - walking my dog.. I was innundated with cat calls. - guys practically pulling their cars over.. So I suggest that you dress WAY Down into sorta "Baggy Mennonite" and take yourself out to El Conde - find the old Coffee Shop which is set back in there -- and STUDY the women who are walking down there and the men on the corners who are WATCHING them and sending out the "Piropos" which are actually POEMS of praise... it is an old tradition there.. Women Strut their stuff.. Men admire it. You change your strut - they will change their behavior towards it.
 

mountainannie

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one of the realities of life down there - and about that culture - was the understanding that Dominicans do not believe that friendship is possible between men and women. I have had this one verified from so many sources that I had to finally accept it. As an American - and a product of co-educational Quaker schools - who firmly believe in the equality of the sexes and the deep bonds of platonic friendships - this was perhaps the ultimate deal breaker for me.

I came to understand that it was assumed that I was sleeping with every man that I "walked out" with. Doing work with various Haitian organizations - and therefore "keeping company" with more than one young Haitian - it became apparent to me that I was going to have to really make it clear what my relationship was. I had a long standing relationship with an internet cafe - and set up one young Haitian to work there. One day, the Dona - said to me something along the lines of "they did not like that young man for me" And I replied that he had been referred to me by the priest at the Episcopal Cathedral as someone who was working on journalism and planning to return to Haiti and they asked me to help him.

So - be aware - that the assumption on the street - is that one is indeed sleeping with any man with whom one "walks about" and that in Dominican culture - friendship between a man and a woman is not considered possible.

Fortunately - I did have at least one good Gay friend... and made friends with a group of Americans - but then they would just cycle out after their gig with the Peace Corps or whatever NGO was finished... which left me perhaps more lonely than if I had never met them..
 

Africaida

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Their problems, not mine

So I suggest that you dress WAY Down into sorta "Baggy Mennonite"


giphy.gif


:p
 

Africaida

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So - be aware - that the assumption on the street - is that one is indeed sleeping with any man with whom one "walks about" and that in Dominican culture - friendship between a man and a woman is not considered possible.

I was asked several times if a friend of mine was my daughter's father (it doesn't help that she is much lighter than me). The first time I visited DR she was 1, yet people remain convinced. :p
 
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mountainannie

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yes - certainly I can understand that - but you only come down here on vacation and the poster that I was responding to is LIVING here, restoring a house in the ZONA COLONIAL - and thus is entering the culture here. My advice was based on her query - like - "will the catcalls never end" -- and I base that advice on 14 years of living there - 12 of them in the Capital. If she is getting catcalls - it is based on how she is dressing and walking..

The Capital is a very different culture from the beach resorts. One does not wear beach attire there.. well.. let us say this - men do not wear shorts, for example - unless going to the beach or to play golf..

Based on the old Spanish cultural customs - SLEEVELESS dresses are not considered appropriate attire in public buildings

now it may come a REAL shock to many or most - when it seems that Dominican women wear both pants and tops that are one size too small - but understand that those clothes are worn by AVAILABLE women.. Not by the ones who are not.

This is simply based on what I have observed - I am a pretty good observer..

I certainly support a woman's right to wear whatever she wants to wear, wherever she wants to wear it.

But I am also old enough and wise enough to understand that what we wear, and how we walk and talk around men - have consequences..

We are only mammals, after all.
 

Africaida

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But I am also old enough and wise enough to understand that what we wear, and how we walk and talk around men - have consequences..

We are only mammals, after all.

Let's agree to disagree MA, I may come down on vacation but I live in NYC where catcalls are nearly as common as in DR !

Wisdom ?*roll eyes*

I understand the different dress codes given the areas and the fact that I only come down on vacations doesn't change the fact that women should be able to wear whatever they want.

I -and women in general-get catcalls whether I am dress with my work suit (5 days a week) and I don't walk and talk like some stupid airhead. Of course, if I am going out and dress with leather pants, I get more attention, that 's common sense.

So, I support the ban to baggy Mennonite clothing (besides they still thought you were getting down with the motoconcho) !!!!! :lick:
 

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
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Hmm I never get catcalls and my husband buys me Dominican hooker clothes. Must be doing something wrong. I must admit my favourite attire, especially in the capital, is cargo pants so I don't need to carry a handbag and tight Tshirts as my boobs still don't fail the pencil test - even at over 60!

Matilda