Thanks for a real discussion on race!!

How can you say enjoying not seeing a white person is not a racist comment? If it were said the other way around you'd be all over it....
(oh, or are only white folks capable of racsim?)

teminations of Haitians

While I disagree with the proposed treatement of Haitains, note that the statements being made are Nationalistic, not racist. Color is not the distiction but nationality and culture.

Isaac, I'd have to agree with you there, those statments you refer to about Haitians are racists too (I don't take up every arguement, I've already overspent my lunch hour).
Interesting point Shadley, that the basis of the comments is Nationality, not colour, but doesn't that still make the comments at least bigotry if not racist. Depends on how you define it I guess. Is race based just on colour, or something else?
We have our own instances of bigotry here in Canada too, (based on language), but the "racism" word gets tossed around even though racially the two groups are the same...

Well Said Shad!

Unfortunately as Hillbilly pointed out in the DR. the lighter you are the better chance you have to advance......That being said...see my comments on INAPA in "gov't Bashings.......
The Head honcho we met with was blacker than the ace of spades, very well educated, in a high ranking,well paying position. So while the colour of your skin and your facial features may aid or deter your advancement it is really your education level and your ability to promote your own abilities that is more of a determining factor in how far you advance in this country.....
The dislike of the Haitians IS more of a Nationalistic thing than a racial thing altho' in certain individuals racism is evident.
On the whole I have found to DR to be remarkable non-racist much like Canada....although there are exceptions to the rule.
By the way....for some reason I have found American Blacks to MUCH MORE RACIST than their white counter-part (with the exclusion of the KKK and the "Aryan Brotherhood"). Why is that????

Isaac,
You've never seen a white person in the DR? That's very strange.There's many white Dominicans that I know of. Perhaps your not as uptight when your on holidays as you are back home. Never use color or nationality as an excuse for not geting ahead in life.

since we are having a truthful discussion

I admit that we have racism in the U.S. Not to belittle that fact,or downplay anyones suffering I want to put a new spin on this.I believe that racism has created a whole cottage industry where people don't even have to try to succeed anymore.They don't want to get an education,or try to start a new business.They want to be the professional "victim".With cries of "racism" they think the world owes them a living.They paint the picture that it is impossible for a minority to make it in America.Well that is total B.S. Just look at all the people that come here from other countries that value education and hard work.Golo is retired at what ,his mid thirties?He seems well educated obviously he worked hard to get where he is today.Tony C is Cuban.From reading the threads,he has started several businesses,traveled the world,and is not looking for a government handout.AZB spent years in school,and is living his dream.Yes racism is real,the world would be a much better place without it,but that is no reason to just sit back and whine,and demand the world pay your way through life.Making claims that the U.S. is exporting racism is crap.We have more than our share of racism,but we are also the most diverse country on the planet

Listen man...

What part of the country do you live in? Have you ever beeen to the ghettoes of Atlanta , New orleans , or New York. True. Some people( not most) have grown complacent with their situations, but the fact of the matter is that many African Americans are born into social and economically challenged circumstances. I grew up in the ghetto. Before I managed to obtain My degree from Morehouse in History/Education, I was forced to sell drugs as a youth just so my family could eat. Iwasnt able to work legally until I was 16. those jobs were for minimum wage and disgusting. In the proceess of trying to do well I was shot in the chest by police for "looking like a suspect". It is not uncommon for people of African Heritage to Experience these factors.

Racism in the USA

It is alive and well,but out of about 275 million of us we seldome kill each other solely because of race.I can,t remember the last time a young boy,black or white or hispanic or asian,strapped a bomb to his chest ,went to a "Disco" where "THEY" go,and blew everyone to pieces! Our "Racism" is subtle. .....but we admire,and reward those of any race or color or religion,or from "far away lands" who work hard,or studies hard to make a better life for them or their family. Criss Coln

EXCUSE ME!!!

There's way too much "colour" going on here!!!
Let me make a comment on "attitude" and personal pride .
While travelling to Philadelphia to take our son to a special clinic (long drive from where we live in Canada), we decided to do some sight-seeing so our other children would have something "good" to remember about the trip (you know Liberty Bell and all that stuff!).
We took a wrong turn (I never was that great at reading a map with three young children in the van....) and ended up in a "slum" neighbourhood-that just happened to be "black"- I've seen "white" ones almost the same in the "wilds" of Tennesee,Kentucky and Virgina. There was garbage piled in every available square inch. If you could see a lawn it was three feet high grass with patches of dirt and lots of litter, there were apartment buildings with no front doors,few windows,and garbage piled three to four feet high in the stairwells uo to the third floor with people hanging out the windows calling to their neighbours across the street. I was disgusted to say the least.
There is no shame in being poor!! but there is shame in allowing it to drag you down to the point where you have no self respect (hmmmm - RESPECT- a word jjsk uses a lot also!)
I have seen dirt poor people here in the DR. Yes they live in a tin shantie with lots of holes and dirt floors. But those floors are swept every day. Garbage may be piled in the yard (because there is NO garbage pick-up, unlike Philly) but it is piles in one area of the yard. There may be no grass for lack of water but even the yard is swept clean every day. They share with their families and friends whatever they have......They don't cry "I'M BLACK" You have to help me because I'm descended from slaves (which they are!!) I have never had a break! YOU OWE ME BECAUSE YOU DID THIS TO ME!
Each and every one of us chooses the path we will take. Not all of us becomes millionaire but we all have the capacity to live our life with dignity,self respect and respect for others. We all choose wether we will be tolerant of others and their cultures and beliefs - regardless of race,creed or colour.

Nationalism-not Racism.....

You missed it......Most Dominicans are not saying they don't want Haitians here. What they are saying is they don't want them here illegally, taking employment from Dominicans, using the health care system (which is sorely inadequate as it is), and utilizing resources which they don't have in their own land.
Have you seen what the Haitians have done to their side of the island?????
It used to be the "best" most lush tropical part of Hispaniola.

Quamilus

I live in Boston.I have also visited all three of the cities you mentioned.I have also visited your native Jamaica.Your experiences prove my point.You moved here from another country ,had a rough time of it.You have experienced racism,and seen how rough it can be in America.We all know how corrupt the police can be.But you didn't quit did you?You went to a good school,you have an excellent education.I know things are hard for African Americans here,I never said that they were not,but things were not all that great in Jamaica either were they?I don't know what you do for a living,but with your education I am sure that you are doing better than me as an air conditioning tech.Bottom line is you did not quit .You fought on,and you won.You have the education,you are well spoken,and well traveled.African Americans could use more role models like you.Hard work and perseverance.

Re: Listen man...

Quamilus said:

Before I managed to obtain My degree from Morehouse in History/Education, I was forced to sell drugs as a youth....
In the proceess of trying to do well I was shot in the chest by police for "looking like a suspect". It is not uncommon for people of African Heritage to Experience these factors.

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Quamilus, I applaud you for rising above your difficult beginnings, but maybe you were shot by the cops because you were a drug dealer, not because of your colour?

No, Isaac, racism is not one group being better than another...it is of one race hating another another race...

Most Dominicans are of mixed race...many are as black or blacker than most Haitians...it ain't a racial thing for most...black Dominicans hate Haitians just as much as other Dominicans.

"my focus in the DR is to get away from the EURO and Gringo crowd " How do you expect me to feel as a caucasian when you refer to me as a gringo? Is this not racist? Actually it doesn't bother me since what you call me is unimportant, I've been called too many names for it to bother me now. But the point is...

Quamilus:

"I was forced to sell drugs as a youth just so my family could eat. Iwasnt able to work legally until I was 16. those jobs were for minimum wage and disgusting. In the proceess of trying to do well I was shot in the chest by police for "looking like a suspect". It is not uncommon for people of African Heritage to Experience these factors."

Who forced you to sell drugs? Which is more disgusting, selling drugs or flipping hamburgers for minimum wage? You were shot bypolice for " looking like a suspect". Were the police charged? Why did they fire? Could it have anything to do with your having been a drug dealer. Sorry, By bringing up your past career you have lost any credibility with me.

It is uncommon for people of African Heritage to be shot. It happens, sometimes by accident or sometimes because of the person's actions but it is NOT common.

What is uncommon is to become a drug dealer and blame it on others...most Black Americans don't turn to a life of crime. If they do it is by choice, not racism.

You may have turned your personal life around and not be doing criminal acts now. I am glad for you...but you also need to turn around some of your "poor me" attitude.

I do!

Isaac,you were more interesting when all you wanted to do in the DR was "Get Laid"! You now are starting to go on and on and on about this Haitian "Thing" and you sound like a "Black Racist", and a "FOOL"! Give it a rest.We could care less.I don,t care if the guy who "Squeezes" my juice in the morning is Haitian or Dominican!This is a non-issue.There is no answer.My wife is a "Black" dominican,and believe me she has no desire to explore her "African Roots"! Most Dominicans prefer to claim their "Spanish" ancestors.They don,t talk to much about the "African Thing"!I didn,t put your ancestors on a ship from Africa,an African did! My grandparents come from Holland cause they had nothing to eat.My grandfather worked and saved,and worked and saved(He also "screwed" a lot,cause my mother had 7 brothers,and 6 sisters) until he had a fuel oil distribution business,and what must have been the biggest house I ever saw in Streator Illinois! Don,t blame Europe for all your problems or "Whitey" either. By-The-Way,I can,t spell worth a shit either,but at least I take the time to spell check the "Big" words,you might consider doing the same!Criss Colon

Re: Listen man...

Quamilus said:

What part of the country do you live in? Have you ever beeen to the ghettoes of Atlanta , New orleans , or New York. True. Some people( not most) have grown complacent with their situations, but the fact of the matter is that many African Americans are born into social and economically challenged circumstances. I grew up in the ghetto. Before I managed to obtain My degree from Morehouse in History/Education, I was forced to sell drugs as a youth just so my family could eat. Iwasnt able to work legally until I was 16. those jobs were for minimum wage and disgusting. In the proceess of trying to do well I was shot in the chest by police for "looking like a suspect". It is not uncommon for people of African Heritage to Experience these factors.

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