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Apadridia, La Sentencia, Los Afectados y más
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Reconocido is a well known pro-Haitian NGO. They are the ones that pay for all the umbrella, t-shirts, and cardboard signs that are used in the supposedly ´spontaneous´ marches and protests. It´s a mistery where they get all the money for all of that.
Here is what I call the possessive adjective fallacy. When I express the correct opinion, which is backed by good, sound, logical reasoning and is as valid as any true fact, my opponents call it my opinion, as if the only thing the opinion has going for it is that I hold the opinion. Abolitionists ran into this when the crazy people labeled the anti-slavery opinions with possessive adjectives, That is only your opinion! when it was also the correct opinion, as demonstrated by good, sound, logical reasoning.
The afectados are not Haitians. They are Dominicans, a truth the racist bigots find inconvenient. Another truth is that nobody was stripped of Dominican citizenship and nobody has ever been granted Dominican citizenship. There is no such thing as citizenship. It’s not like some bureaucracy is part of your soul. There are documents with stuff written on them, and there are bureaucrats who pretend there is such a thing as citizenship, and they may actually believe it, because they are so used to talking like that, but there is no such thing as citizenship.
Article 11 of the Haitian constitution mentions who is a native Haitian.
https://context.montpelier.org/document/1285
The million dollar question: If Dominican laws don´t recognize legal rights from illegal acts and anyone that through some sort of fraud gains Dominican documentation that should had never applied to them, then hoe can any illegal Haitian immigrant ever legally lose their Haitian citizenship when, due to the initial fraud, they never legally gained Dominican citizenship?
If the son/daughter of all Haitians are born Haitian themselves, then their children are also born Haitian.
How can the son/daughter of any Haitian be “apatrida” anywhere in the world?
https://context.montpelier.org/document/1285
The million dollar question: If Dominican laws don´t recognize legal rights from illegal acts and anyone that through some sort of fraud gains Dominican documentation that should had never applied to them, then hoe can any illegal Haitian immigrant ever legally lose their Haitian citizenship when, due to the initial fraud, they never legally gained Dominican citizenship?
If the son/daughter of all Haitians are born Haitian themselves, then their children are also born Haitian.
How can the son/daughter of any Haitian be “apatrida” anywhere in the world?
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If there is no such thing as citizenship, then I don´t know what you are doing in this argument and creating threads that are precisely about citizenship.
You simply make no sense.
The abstract is what makes modern life possible. Without it there would be anarchy and no advancements in well being would be possible, rendering human life to its most primitive form as cave dwellers.
The concept of ‘apatridia’ implies the existence of citizenship.
By your own admission, you have no place in this debate because you don´t believe in the very thing it´s about.
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There is no such thing as citizenship, but there are benefits of being classified as a citizen. The afectados are Dominicans because they were born in Dominicana. If these Dominicans, with Dominican birth certificates can be stripped of the benefits of being classified as citizens, then nobody is safe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muvODWY6NZ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muvODWY6NZ0
Or gender, apparently. You may feel that there is no such thing as citizenship, but a few billions people on earth will disagree with you. I don't think you get to decide for other people. I am sure you use a passport. Born in the DR doesn't make you a citizen if your parents were not legal residents.
But born in the DR and living in DR all their lives makes them Dominicans. A legislature can declare that the Earth is flat but this does not make the Earth flat; and a legislature can declare that a Dominican is a Haitian, but all they are doing is manufacturing documents.
It's already been shown that, even under the old Dominican law, children of illegal Haitians are not citizens - so how could they have been stripped of their citizenship? What exactly is your issue here?
These persons were classified as Dominican citizens until the jus solis law was changed in 2010 and let us not forget the mass issue of new cédulas. If you already had a cédula that would expire in 2024 that style was declared invalid and you were supposed to get a new one if you still could. And what could be the harm in their retaining the benefits of citizenship anyway? What could be the harm in their being free to open bank accounts or get married or get a job or do whatever else a cédula is required for? They were born in Dominicana and lived in Dominicana their whole lives. It is their country.
As clarification, when it is said that this is possessive adjective country, town, neighbourhood this often presents misunderstandings. Nobody owns the country. Like possessive adjective birthday, it does not imply ownership. It means it is the country that pertains to them. It is their homeland.
Also, many of the victims and their families report bureaucratic obstacles, such as local registrars insisting on more documentation than the regulations required. There were painfully slow processes to get issued documents and some racist bureaucrats simply would not serve the Dominicans of Haitian ancestry.
Classified by who. Every country gets to decide who is a citizen and who isn't. Many of these people that were born in the DR but had parents from Haiti that didn't have proper paperwork were re-issued Dominican ID once they were able to prove that the parents were legally in the DR. You realize that just because you state something as a fact, doesn't make it true.
Legislation also says the DR exists. Benefits are also legislative and documentative. Oh wait, you don´t believe in legislation or the abstract.
If a legislation says the earth is flat, it does makes the earth flat before the law. You seem to not understand that legal reality is based on its own legal definitions.
Its the same with the legislation that says that everyone is equal before the law.
The same with the one-drop-rule that defined who was black in the USA.
In most countries legislation says you can only be a man or a woman, while in some countries legislation says a person can be any of 3 or 4 or 10 or whatever amount of genders. What anyone thinks about this is irrelevant before the law of each country.
Its the same with everything.
The point is that you are arguing for something that you yourself negate its existence. It´s a contradiction at its finest.
A person can claim to be whatever they like, but before the law the rules are clearly set and what matters is what those rules say. No one is Dominican because they say it, wish it, or have documents procured from an initial fraud. Dominican is what the Dominican constitution says. Every son/daughter born to a Dominican outside the DR is Dominican even if the person neber sets foot on the DR. The children of illegal immigrants in the DR are not Dominicans. Every son/daughter born to a Haitian is a Haitian regardless of place of birth. There´s nothing you can do about that and no amount of denying that will make it go away or change it.
In fact, the only thing your actions will do is for Dominicans to set the rule in stone. You are basicallydoing what the pro-Haitian NGO´s did regarding the definition of ´in transit´ in all Dominican constitutions since 1929. The Supreme Court of every country is the entity that sets the interpretation of anything in the constitution, its the maximum authority on making the rules clear. The pro-Haitian NGO´s simply denied the faculty that is given to all Suprene Courts. The end result was that Dominicans set the rule in such a stone that the NGO´s initial argument on ´in transit´ is now irrelevant. Guess what? Nothing changed except that now the rule is harder for them to challenge. That´s the Dominican way.
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Dominicans by mistake, not because they had the rights to be Dominicans. Was a very good decision to find a legal solution to those people affected that had they papers as Dominicans. Now the one who they have to force to give births certificates is to the Haitian goverment that is the one that wants to have Apatridas in their own territories and outside.
Classified under Dominican law. These were classified under the pre-2010 statutes as Dominicans and the classification as citizens was revoked under Dominican law. If it could happen to a category of persons who are unpopular to racists, it could happen to any category of persons who later find themselves unpopular. First, they came for the Communists....
Just because the Corte Suprema de Justicia rules that somebody was "in transit" does not mean that the person was in transit. Many parents were living in Dominicana.
Also there was a denial of due process, where the Migración bureaucrats simply ordered persons to board a truck and the victims were brought to a spot near the international line and were instructed to walk across the line into Haiti without so much as a court hearing.
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