Advice needed

belkis

New member
May 15, 2004
19
0
0
I would appreciate any advice from POP residents regarding an issue regarding the purchase of a motorbike. No negativity or scathing comments required - just help and your opinions. Nearly 2 months ago my other half bought a new motorbike for cash at Lucillos in downtown POP. He was told at the time that the papers would arrive shortly - as it was a brand new model, there was a delay ( !!) When he chased it up after a couple of weeks they said it would take 45 days ( don't ask me why) By this time I was already uneasy but, typical Dominican, he was giving them the benefit of the doubt and assured me that the papers would be there. 45 days came and went last week and when he went down last Friday they said that the papers were "lost" in the office close to Casa Nelson ( sorry, don't know the official title) and said they were waiting for them to be found. We now have a situation where he only has a cash receipt, no papers for the bike, no number plate etc. I am arriving for a month in 2 weeks time and want this sorted - either the bike is officially his, or they change it for another that is complete with paperwork or ??? Typical Dominican, he just keeps accepting their excuses and although unhappy has not really pursued it with them. Does he go to a lawyer now, or what? Any advice would be gratefully received. Just to add, we have bought a number of bikes from them over the last 18 yrs and this is the first time we have experienced this.
 

CristoRey

Welcome To Wonderland
Apr 1, 2014
11,717
7,977
113
Any advice would be gratefully received. Just to add, we have bought a number of bikes from them over the last 18 yrs and this is the first time we have experienced this.

If possible, deal with the same sales person you purchased from last time. This may help to
speed things up a bit. If not, I would tell the manager you are thinking of purchasing two more
bikes (maybe for family at Christmas) but you can't do anything until they get the paper work
in order for your last purchase.
 

chico bill

Dogs Better than People
May 6, 2016
12,573
6,329
113
I would appreciate any advice from POP residents regarding an issue regarding the purchase of a motorbike. No negativity or scathing comments required - just help and your opinions. Nearly 2 months ago my other half bought a new motorbike for cash at Lucillos in downtown POP. He was told at the time that the papers would arrive shortly - as it was a brand new model, there was a delay ( !!) When he chased it up after a couple of weeks they said it would take 45 days ( don't ask me why) By this time I was already uneasy but, typical Dominican, he was giving them the benefit of the doubt and assured me that the papers would be there. 45 days came and went last week and when he went down last Friday they said that the papers were "lost" in the office close to Casa Nelson ( sorry, don't know the official title) and said they were waiting for them to be found. We now have a situation where he only has a cash receipt, no papers for the bike, no number plate etc. I am arriving for a month in 2 weeks time and want this sorted - either the bike is officially his, or they change it for another that is complete with paperwork or ??? Typical Dominican, he just keeps accepting their excuses and although unhappy has not really pursued it with them. Does he go to a lawyer now, or what? Any advice would be gratefully received. Just to add, we have bought a number of bikes from them over the last 18 yrs and this is the first time we have experienced this.

You might need to have an attorney call them and scare them. But it is probably legit but in the future get an attorney to go with you and for 3000 pesos you can have him look over the paperwork when you purchase new.

Yeah two months is too long and his bike might get seized with no paperwork to show AMET (aka Digisett)

If you buy one used take all the paperwork to the attorney, have him draft a bill of sale or the insurance offices of Franz Scheichl (upstairs behind Altice) and get your insurance and title handled from the same place.

Meanwhile you are in the land of manana and nothing moves at the efficient pace as your home country
 

belkis

New member
May 15, 2004
19
0
0
Quick update, he has been back this morning with a lawyer. Lucillos have asked for a week to get the papers. The lawyer has told them that if there are no papers by then, he expects a refund of the price paid, another motorbike by mutual agreement, or he will go to the Fiscaleria. I think the message has got across so we just have to wait and see. The abagado is going back with my other half next Thursday just in case. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
 

Cdn_Gringo

Gold
Apr 29, 2014
8,671
1,133
113
Registration of both my moto and my ATV took forever. 3 months in the case of my ATV with me checking in every 3 weeks or so.

No idea how long the registration for the moto took, as they said I'd get a call when the stored received the paperwork and the plate. Of course I never received a call. This was my first big purchase after arriving here and at the time I did not know to question every promise made. Over a year later, I checked with the store and sure enough the registration was in a drawer collecting dust.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
What most likely is happening is this, and you are not the first with this problem: The local dealer had that moto on consignment from the distributor. The distributor holds the title, pending payment. For whatever the reason the local dealer didn't pay for the bike, so the distributor is holding the title.

The real battle is between the local dealer and distributor for the title. You are the collateral damage.

Good luck. All the legal pressure available on the local dealer will not matter until the distributor releases the title. The distributor does not care about you and your problems. He only cares about the money the local guy owes.

You may consider returning the bike for a refund unless the local dealer shows you the original matricula. That would force his hand. He may say "no" but if he can't produce the tital, you will know why. If he produces the title then he's just a laggard.

Lesson take-away for future moto purchasers: before buying the bike have the dealer show you the ORIGINAL matricula for that particular machine to insure it is in his possession and ready for transfer.
 

belkis

New member
May 15, 2004
19
0
0
What most likely is happening is this, and you are not the first with this problem: The local dealer had that moto on consignment from the distributor. The distributor holds the title, pending payment. For whatever the reason the local dealer didn't pay for the bike, so the distributor is holding the title.

The real battle is between the local dealer and distributor for the title. You are the collateral damage.

Good luck. All the legal pressure available on the local dealer will not matter until the distributor releases the title. The distributor does not care about you and your problems. He only cares about the money the local guy owes.

You may consider returning the bike for a refund unless the local dealer shows you the original matricula. That would force his hand. He may say "no" but if he can't produce the tital, you will know why. If he produces the title then he's just a laggard.

Lesson take-away for future moto purchasers: before buying the bike have the dealer show you the ORIGINAL matricula for that particular machine to insure it is in his possession and ready for transfer.

That is what I thought was the case, that Lucillos hadn't yet cleared their purchase of the bike. This is similar to car dealerships in the UK but you would never wait 2 months for paperwork. I would rather he be refunded or given another bike, just have to wait and see. Personally, I would never have paid cash without seeing and being given the matricula at the time of the sale. Unfortunately, many thousands of miles away.
 

chico bill

Dogs Better than People
May 6, 2016
12,573
6,329
113
Quick update, he has been back this morning with a lawyer. Lucillos have asked for a week to get the papers. The lawyer has told them that if there are no papers by then, he expects a refund of the price paid, another motorbike by mutual agreement, or he will go to the Fiscaleria. I think the message has got across so we just have to wait and see. The abagado is going back with my other half next Thursday just in case. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

What did the lawyer charge ?
 

lifeisgreat

Enjoying Life
May 7, 2016
3,271
1,162
113
Belkis I would just wait it out... both on my moped and bike took about 4 and 6 months both new bought same day different arrivals dates for plates and ownership it’s legal to drive with no plate and with purchase contract , as wierd as it sounds..
 

belkis

New member
May 15, 2004
19
0
0
Belkis I would just wait it out... both on my moped and bike took about 4 and 6 months both new bought same day different arrivals dates for plates and ownership it’s legal to drive with no plate and with purchase contract , as wierd as it sounds..

Thanks, is a cash receipt what you would call a purchase contract? I am probably overworrying but I am concerned that if we are stopped by AMET that it won't be enough to stop them taking things any further i.e impounding the bike, especially with him having an extranjera as passenger :(
 

Cdn_Gringo

Gold
Apr 29, 2014
8,671
1,133
113
OP,

Is your other half a Dominican?

Dominicans and foreigners are treated differently at accidents or traffic stops.

Do they have a valid DR driver's license?

A foreigner using a non DR license with a vehicle that "you" purchased is just temping the cosmos to align against you. A Dominican without a license is strike 1 in any interaction with the authorities.

Does the moto have valid insurance?

Insurance is required for all motor vehicles. Operating a vehicle without insurance coverage is well, just dumb. Insurance is dependent on a licensed driver operating the vehicle on public roads.

A cash receipt? You can't buy a new vehicle these days without a pretty detailed form listing the make, model, serial number of the moto, the price paid, the date of the purchase and of course a couple of signatures. If this sales contract is missing, something hinky is going on. This sale agreement is the basis upon which the transfer of ownership from the dealer to the purchaser is based. There can be no transfer of ownership without one.

With this document you can get insurance and drive the moto provided you have insurance and a copy of the sales contract and a driver's license with you while driving. This is what is required by law, not necessarily what Amet enforces.

There is a time limit after which you are required to have your matricula and license plate for the vehicle. I don't know how long the grace period actually is.
 

belkis

New member
May 15, 2004
19
0
0
OP,

Is your other half a Dominican?

Dominicans and foreigners are treated differently at accidents or traffic stops.

Do they have a valid DR driver's license?

A foreigner using a non DR license with a vehicle that "you" purchased is just temping the cosmos to align against you. A Dominican without a license is strike 1 in any interaction with the authorities.

Does the moto have valid insurance?

Insurance is required for all motor vehicles. Operating a vehicle without insurance coverage is well, just dumb. Insurance is dependent on a licensed driver operating the vehicle on public roads.

A cash receipt? You can't buy a new vehicle these days without a pretty detailed form listing the make, model, serial number of the moto, the price paid, the date of the purchase and of course a couple of signatures. If this sales contract is missing, something hinky is going on. This sale agreement is the basis upon which the transfer of ownership from the dealer to the purchaser is based. There can be no transfer of ownership without one.

With this document you can get insurance and drive the moto provided you have insurance and a copy of the sales contract and a driver's license with you while driving. This is what is required by law, not necessarily what Amet enforces.

There is a time limit after which you are required to have your matricula and license plate for the vehicle. I don't know how long the grace period actually is.


Hi, thanks for your response. Yes, he is Dominican and I am a Brit. He told me he has got a receipt but on further questioning it is, as you say, a more detailed handwritten contract on headed paper with all the above info. Yes, he has got insurance.
My mind is a little more at peace now. Let us see if the matricula is produced by next Thursday as promised.
Many thanks for your helpful advice everyone. In the past we have always been given the matricula at the same time as purchasing the bike - this is the first time anything different has occurred.
 

Uzin

Bronze
Oct 26, 2005
1,386
20
38
Okay, here is another issue, the original distributor of the bike that imported the vehicle did not pay the tax, and not willing to pay it, or delaying it. The problem is the dealer did not check this, bought a bike without all tax and other fees paid and without all paperwork in place. Now he is at the mercy of the distributor that is not cooperating or maybe even disappeared.... !

This happened to me and a friend, I am still waiting for my title from Papaterra, after more than 1 year - fair enough I wasn't there to chase it before for 9 months, but the last 3 months has only resulted in a number plate (just last month) and no title yet - which I think is terrible. They keep saying next week, like yours, and I have raised hell there with their manager, but still they can't do much unless the distributor pays the tax bill of 18% and other costs for importing the bike- shame on customs that let goods through with bribe and back doors.... (they of course deny this is the problem, but you can't tell me titles take 1 year to come unless there is a substantial problem like this).

My only hope is that there is an official registration of this bike somewhere, because they gave me the number plate and that electronic chip sticker (did they bribed their way for that, who knows !). I can also get insurance with the purchase document and together have something to show to AMET, though they never stopped me so far.

This could get really nasty, my friend's bike was over two years old and had changed hands twice and everybody was still saying the title is in the post (okay, he shouldn't have bought it without a title, but at that time it was only 5 months old and they said it is normal for title to arrive in 6 months !). He didn't pursue it though. His research later showed exactly that, no tax paid by importer so no title could be issued. He actually found a number for the importer but the guy on the other end said he is not going to do anything about it, tough... !?

Finally when he tried to sell it, no title still, ran into problem. Well, he found the lawyer who had friends who had friends who had.... you know what is like !, to claim the title was lost - with records somehow suddenly appear on computers (hello!), so a copy could be issued ... !!!??? for the appropriate cost of course...! (what a country)

I have threatened Papaterra to take the bike back and refund in full, but they just laugh and say don't worry, the title is in the post. I guess ultimately need a lawyer involved, but that would mean a lot of costs waste of time and who knows, to litigate a minor civil dispute like this could take ages....who cares you have no title for your bike, I bet 50% of bikes here don't have one !

Good luck.

P.S. Someone mentioned check that the bike has a title before buying, but no new bike in the shop has title, they need to request and register it in your name, dealers don't get and put a title in their name (unless it is sold before maybe !). Maybe it is different for cars, I don't know. But I think it will be harder to import and slip through a car without paying tax... ! (but in DR anything possible !).
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Okay, here is another issue, the original distributor of the bike that imported the vehicle did not pay the tax, and not willing to pay it, or delaying it. The problem is the dealer did not check this, bought a bike without all tax and other fees paid and without all paperwork in place. Now he is at the mercy of the distributor that is not cooperating or maybe even disappeared.... !
I can assure you that Adaunas will not release any vehicle until taxes are paid.

The distributors bring in 20' & 40' container of bikes. Big bikes like mine come disassembled in crates. Small bikes like CG series motos come in three flat boxes, frame & wheels, engine, and tupperware & bits, and then are assembled.

Building a distribution network has slowed because I refuse the traditional Dominican method of consignment to dealers at no cost, payment upon sale, and the big distributors use unsavory collection methods I would never employ.
 

cruzan1

Active member
Sep 12, 2016
114
36
28
As others have stated it can take 3 months or longer to get your title and plate. Just keep a "copy" of your sales receipts and insurance on you when driving the bike. AMET will not give you any problems as long as you are wearing your helmet. If you do get pulled over just show the receipts. I went through all of this last year when I bought my bike. Also - grab a disc brake anti-theft alarm off of Amazon.com - $30.00
 

belkis

New member
May 15, 2004
19
0
0
I am so pleased I bit the bullet and posted this yesterday. Although having been called negative by some, I see myself as a realist and after 25 yrs experience ( good and bad) of the DR I have learnt to expect the unexpected, indeed at times the unbelievable. I will see what happens in the next two weeks before I arrive but I don't think I will ever cease to be amazed at some of the sharp practices that are carried out as part of everyday life over there. Hey ho ......
 

Cdn_Gringo

Gold
Apr 29, 2014
8,671
1,133
113
It is amazing how long it takes for some departments to do their jobs. Papaterra was mentioned above and that is where I bought my Yamaha. It all worked out in the end, but it took a very long time to get to the end - me being newly arrived here and used to the process taking a day or two from start to finish at home. Then again, you can't be on the streets without a plate at home so that must be what allows the registration process to take so long here. If the majority of people purchasing a moto could not use for it many months, they'd be burning tires...
 

Uzin

Bronze
Oct 26, 2005
1,386
20
38
I can assure you that Adaunas will not release any vehicle until taxes are paid.

I can assure you they do, occasionally one of those containers or disassembled crates, which I have seen myself in the Micky mouse assembly lines in Gaspar Hernandez, slip thorough while everyone seemingly on their breaks ...!!!, this was just the story of my bike and my friend's bike first hand, I have heard a lot of other secondhand stories about bike taxes not paid...

My friend being Spanish went to all the Gov offices involved, he discussed and argued with them in their own lingo, they presented him with the bill for taxes due for his 26-months old scooter, 18% of 54k pesos (9,720p), they said pay that now and the title will be issued, they showed him the computer screen that said this tax was not paid...!? Of course he managed to get the title in "other" ways I mentioned for 3500p... !

Don't compare DR with other countries, it's a totally different cattle of fish....
 

william webster

Platinum
Jan 16, 2009
30,247
4,329
113
Mine wasn’t a bike... but a car

I drove for months carrying the former owners title and my insurance
My proper title came months later....4-5

I was stopped during the interim period and never had a problem,
His title, my bill of sale and insurance