What killed my Dad?

nadie43

Newbie
Dec 17, 2018
6
0
0
Hello DR1,

My case is probably not uncommon but I can't believe this is happening in my family. I was born and raised in D.R and brought to the U.S by my mom before turning 18. I have four genetic siblings(two older and two younger) and two half siblings my late father had with a second marriage he had divorced just prior his death.

About 3 years ago my mid 60s father suddenly died in circumstances me and my closest siblings don't know and have no documented proofs yet. My oldest siblings do know and have access to this information... herein the issue. Right after the funeral some family members approached me and warned me not leave D.R before getting death certificates. I asked for this certificate to my dad's ex-wife and older siblings only to be aggressively dismissed.

Some of the few details I've been able to gather is that my late father's ex-wife was able to get access to pension funds and other assets of my dad. Interestingly... one my older siblings has had a sudden increase of assets in D.R. I'm having to spend resources next year to make sure I clarify this situation for me and my siblings.

Due to my older sibling's obfuscation in conjunction with my late father's ex wife's(she's a lawyer) me and my closest siblings have been completely excluded from any post death matters. Me and my younger siblings have not had any participation or consultations on these matters. The argument being given by my older sibling and Dad's ex-wife is that there's nothing to worry about with anything because my dad "had nothing and left nothing" when I'm just asking for documentation.

I'm I being paranoid or are my concerns valid?

So far I've only received threats and insults from my older siblings and their acolytes for daring to simply ask stuff like; What killed my Dad?
 

ctrob

Silver
Nov 9, 2006
5,591
781
113
Condolences on the loss of your Dad.

After 3 years, you probably won't find out much about how the death happened. Sad but true. Grieve for your Dad, that's the best you can do.

You really need a good attorney in the DR. They can at least find out how the property was split up.

You must know where he was receiving a pension from? Have a lawyer in that country contact them. The Pension Plan managers have a fiduciary responsibility to your Dad regarding the payout. Was everything done (or being done currently if monthly payouts) correctly? Is it being disbursed monthly or was it a lump sum payout?

Any monies already paid out, consider them gone. It's not worth the trouble, financially and emotionally to try to recoup them int he DR. And maybe even for your physical safety. Good luck.
 

frank12

Gold
Sep 6, 2011
11,847
29
48
I can tell you from experience that when my father died and i was about to leave the island to go back to work, i told a group of Dominican relatives and friends that were sitting with me around a poker table of about 15-people, that i was just waiting on his death certificate in order to let the Social Security office know that he died and to stop his "Automatic" payments into his Dominican Banco Popular account (I shared the account with him).

When they heard me say this, it was the first time i saw real horror on my Dominican relatives faces. They screamed, they shouted, they threw things, they fell onto the floor and flopped around like a dead fish. It turns out that many of them were collecting Social Security checks from dead relatives who had passed away, and like me, they had access to their bank accounts (any relative or friend can be added to the same joint account very easily--it's a Dollar account).

So, what's going on here is not necessarily that your father had much assets (although he may have), but that his Social Security check is still rolling into his Dominican account on the 3rd of every month and people are living the high life as a direct result.

If i was you, i would contact Social Security and alert them to his death. His account will eventually be ceased/frozen while they investigate if he is alive or not. Once it is determined that he is dead, the checks will stop....and you will see a lot of unhappy people!

But, keeping this in mind, I heard from a relative that when their father was requested to appear at the US embassy to confirm his status, they simply sent his brother (who knew all of his details--SS#, Birth Date, last addresses, places of work, etc.) and the checks kept on flowing. The father today would be something like 120yrs old, and i think his family is still receiving his SS checks.

Frank
 

ljmesg

New member
Aug 6, 2017
526
1
0
Social Security is inherited by any existing spouse or ex spouse as the case maybe as well as by children.

There are certain qualifications that have to be met. Age, insurance, is the survivor working, etc.

Funerals are a great study. Everyone grieving on the outside while waiting to collect money on the inside.

Your mom is entitled to a percentage of his social security based in the length of their marriage.

I doubt she can access any pension money.

You should call Social Security and ask them what's going on with your fathers benefits. Typically, they get sent the death notice and automatically reapportion out any benefits as the case maybe.

As a child, you are entitled to any and all documents and information about the death and any estate.

Since you are being stonewalled you need to engage an attorney and have them start making inquiries and perhaps court orders and summons.

Its ugly business but nobody will protect you but yourself.
 

chico bill

Dogs Better than People
May 6, 2016
12,570
6,325
113
Social Security is inherited by any existing spouse or ex spouse as the case maybe as well as by children.

There are certain qualifications that have to be met. Age, insurance, is the survivor working, etc.

Funerals are a great study. Everyone grieving on the outside while waiting to collect money on the inside.

Your mom is entitled to a percentage of his social security based in the length of their marriage.

I doubt she can access any pension money.

You should call Social Security and ask them what's going on with your fathers benefits. Typically, they get sent the death notice and automatically reapportion out any benefits as the case maybe.

As a child, you are entitled to any and all documents and information about the death and any estate.

Since you are being stonewalled you need to engage an attorney and have them start making inquiries and perhaps court orders and summons.

Its ugly business but nobody will protect you but yourself.

Sorry for the loss of your father - That was a severe blow to our family to lose the Patriarch.

Children can receive benefits, if they are minors, but believe me the wife will get a very small survivor contribution. I think my mom's was about 1/3 of my dad's SS check.
I would think any US citizen's death which is reported to the Embassy gets reported to the SS office. (if they are citizens - but they don't need to be citizens to collect).

If a sibling or child reports to the SS office that a person has died, checks should be withheld and the recipient must appear at a SS office or a letter from a physician or medical facility must be provided.

I doubt a brother appearing at a US Embassy would work, they refer you to the SSA Federal Benefits Unit (FBU) in Santo Domingo and, although the Embassy takes reports of death of a citizen - I was not aware they handle anything that could involve investigation of potential SS fraud. But who knows - they are after all a federal agency and they seem to encourage fraud it seems.

There was a video on Detras Del Rumor several years ago where a middle age man was killed on his motorcycle after striking a cow. His wife came on the scene and was kneeling next to his body and crying, all the while she was going through his pockets. Of course maybe she was smart to check before the body was removed, but it is more than likely if he had anything of value those who first arrived on the scene would have already beaten her to it.

But it would not surprise me that Dominican relatives would try to game the SS system, even after a death. I am sure there are more than one case.
 

AlterEgo

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 9, 2009
23,097
6,247
113
South Coast
First of all, the OP said her mother took her to the USA, everyone is assuming the father lived and worked there too, but it sounds like he never left DR. When a husband collecting SS dies, the wife is entitled to his check. When my dad died, his SS was more than hers, so she gave up hers and collected his the last 6 years of her life. Children under 18 get survivors benefits, if they are permanently disabled (physically or mentally) they can collect over that age.

Meanwhile, I can tell you we know a lot of poor Dominicans in our campo, really dirt poor, but they own land that is worth quite a bit.

Your best bet is to hire an attorney, or if you prefer online since you’re not in DR, check out https://drsisterhoodwordpress.wordpress.com/ They have attorneys who have helped others with this same problem.
 
Last edited:

frank12

Gold
Sep 6, 2011
11,847
29
48
Some information here is not quite correct.

Let's back up to my father...

When my father died and i reported his death to SS office in the USA, i had to send in his death certificate. My mother, his ex-wife, had to prove that they had been married for at least 10-years. She did that, and in so doing, she was able to collect the "difference" between her check and his check. The difference was only $50. So, her check increased by $50 a month. End of story.

Secondly, even if my father would have remarried in the DR (he didn't), i was told his Dominican wife would only be able to collect his check if they had been married for longer than ??? X-amount of years (I don't remember how many).

Thirdly, I personally knew of Dominican families collecting their dead relatives SS checks after they had died in the DR, and hence, their deaths were never reported to the US Embassy or SS office.

Frank
 

CristoRey

Welcome To Wonderland
Apr 1, 2014
11,713
7,974
113
Hire a decent lawyer, get a copy of the death certificate then contact the social security
office to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes with this one. Good luck.
 

cavok

Silver
Jun 16, 2014
9,527
4,045
113
Cabarete
If a spouse dies, the other spouse is entitled to receive the larger of the two S.S. benefit payments.

The surviving Dominican spouse is not a citizen, he/she must have lived in the US for 5 years while married in order to collect survivor benefits.
 

bienamor

Kansas redneck an proud of it
Apr 23, 2004
5,050
458
83
If a spouse dies, the other spouse is entitled to receive the larger of the two S.S. benefit payments.

The surviving Dominican spouse is not a citizen, he/she must have lived in the US for 5 years while married in order to collect survivor benefits.

need to take a look at
https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/handbook.18/handbook-1845.html
https://maximizemysocialsecurity.com/can-my-wife-get-benefits-if-shes-not-us-citizen

The non citizen spouse could be eligible under the exemption without having lived i the USA
 

nadie43

Newbie
Dec 17, 2018
6
0
0
Thanks for all the comments... they shed light on this issue.

Just to clarify a couple of details.

My dad was a Dominican University Professor who retired as the Rector of a branch of the public university(UASD). His ex-wife was his student. He spent all his life teaching.

I'm currently a dual citizen and a male entering my mid 30s and spent all my life in D.R prior being dragged to the U.S by my mom. My dad never enjoyed these separations.

I'm not concerned about leftover material good and/or property as I have made plenty for myself. I doubt anything can be recoup at this point as well. I don't have much security concerns as I know some people will become hostile to me.

My main concern from the beginning and to this day is to establish the facts of what happened after my dad died and to make this information available to my family. I still hold quaint beliefs like Truth and Justice very dear.
 

Matilda

RIP Lindsay
Sep 13, 2006
5,485
338
63
It should be possible to get a copy of the death certificate and the medical examiners report as well as the autopsy report if one was done. In addition the transfer of assets and titles is not difficult to obtain.

Matilda
 

Auryn

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2012
1,551
1,121
113
OP I wish you luck. And if they are collecting his SS, may justice be served. It's obvious but, keep it on the down low that you made the call to stop the checks. Money makes people crazy and the DR is the wild west.
 
Sep 4, 2012
5,931
57
48
OP,

Have you traveled to the DR to try and get leads or solid answers to the situation and your questions?

If you father past here in the DR, a Certificado de Defuncion must exist and could be had by asking at the health department.

Was he sick and administered into a hospital?

Ask question there to the Doctors.

How about extended family members from his side, your aunts, uncles, etc?

His wife by laws is entitled to everything he owns - let that settle and take its course, otherwise you will torment yourself in vane and for no reason.

If you have doubts with SS checks and pension - call the waste fraud and abuse line and report it as such.

Here is the number for the office that deals with the certificate at the JCE: 809-686-8678
 
Last edited:

nadie43

Newbie
Dec 17, 2018
6
0
0
I've gone to the D.R and gather information about this as well as reaching out to a couple of lawyers. I'm gathering more information and should be heading to the island within the coming year to settle some of these matters. I'm a remote IT worker so should be able to sustain myself for as long as possible.

He was not married by the of time of his death but he did have children who are minor so I would assume that they have priority in any process.

I believe the only people who know the official information are Ex-wife & one of my oldest siblings who has done "our" family's side of the these matters minus any explanation to the rest of the family. The whole process was hijacked by my older brother and my dad's ex-wife and not shared in any form to my siblings as we live in the U.S.

He died at the hospital after getting admitted for some kind of infection, again without any official documentation this is just speculation. I don't believe there was any foul-play involved in his death but since I don't have any documented proofs I can't rule any option given how crazy things can get down there.
 

JD Jones

Moderator:North Coast,Santo Domingo,SW Coast,Covid
Jan 7, 2016
11,696
8,127
113
Hire a decent lawyer, get a copy of the death certificate then contact the social security
office to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes with this one. Good luck.

I think a bunch of you are missing the point the OP made about asking for the death certificate and being told to pretty much forget about it.

Also, his father was a professor who did not travel to the states, so the pension would be from UASD and/or his Dominican pension.

TBH, reading between the lines of his posts, it's almost like he would like to confirm there was no foul play in his father's death, perhaps in an attempt by the ex's family to get to his financial assets.
 
Last edited:

hammerdown

Bronze
Apr 29, 2005
1,466
107
63
I've gone to the D.R and gather information about this as well as reaching out to a couple of lawyers. I'm gathering more information and should be heading to the island within the coming year to settle some of these matters. I'm a remote IT worker so should be able to sustain myself for as long as possible.

He was not married by the of time of his death but he did have children who are minor so I would assume that they have priority in any process.

I believe the only people who know the official information are Ex-wife & one of my oldest siblings who has done "our" family's side of the these matters minus any explanation to the rest of the family. The whole process was hijacked by my older brother and my dad's ex-wife and not shared in any form to my siblings as we live in the U.S.

He died at the hospital after getting admitted for some kind of infection, again without any official documentation this is just speculation. I don't believe there was any foul-play involved in his death but since I don't have any documented proofs I can't rule any option given how crazy things can get down there.

From what you said and that statement alone makes me think the opposite....be very careful when approaching these people, and never alone and don't accept anything to eat or drink from them.....
 

Corey Kenney

New member
Jun 19, 2016
5
0
0
I don't understand peoples preoccupation with dead mans money, even those who are calling for a social security investigation.

I could care less, after I am dead and gone, about what goes on with any of my pensions, social security or VA.

Anyway, don't know if your father ever worked in the U.S., but if he did and paid into Social Security his minor children are eligible for Social Security and even back paid. These are the rules of marriage and SS.

If you are married for just nine months, your new spouse can qualify for survivor benefits. And you only need to be married for one year to permit your new spouse to qualify for spousal benefits. But if you get divorced before 10 years, you'll qualify for neither spousal nor survivor benefits.

***ALL children under 18 and over 18 if mentally or physically disabled are eligible for your father's SS.
 

cavok

Silver
Jun 16, 2014
9,527
4,045
113
Cabarete
I've gone to the D.R and gather information about this as well as reaching out to a couple of lawyers. I'm gathering more information and should be heading to the island within the coming year to settle some of these matters. I'm a remote IT worker so should be able to sustain myself for as long as possible.

He was not married by the of time of his death but he did have children who are minor so I would assume that they have priority in any process.

I believe the only people who know the official information are Ex-wife & one of my oldest siblings who has done "our" family's side of the these matters minus any explanation to the rest of the family. The whole process was hijacked by my older brother and my dad's ex-wife and not shared in any form to my siblings as we live in the U.S.

He died at the hospital after getting admitted for some kind of infection, again without any official documentation this is just speculation. I don't believe there was any foul-play involved in his death but since I don't have any documented proofs I can't rule any option given how crazy things can get down there.

You say you've gone to the DR and contacted several lawyers. Just why is it so difficult for you to get the medical records and death certificate? What is the "stumbling block"?
 

cavok

Silver
Jun 16, 2014
9,527
4,045
113
Cabarete
need to take a look at
https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/handbook.18/handbook-1845.html
https://maximizemysocialsecurity.com/can-my-wife-get-benefits-if-shes-not-us-citizen

The non citizen spouse could be eligible under the exemption without having lived i the USA

The SSA defines an alien as a citizen of a foreign country. Although a non-resident alien here in the DR can receive SSA payments, I don't see anything that excludes or exempts them from first meeting the 5 year residency requirement(?).