"Forget tourism" and new "facts" on DR history

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Estrelleta44

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give this gem a good read:
the article

i had never laughed so much due to a "news article" report as much as i did for this gem.... who would have known Trujillo wanted to merge the island and Haiti declined so he ordered the "perejil massacre" hahahahahahaha

not even going to comment on the "build a wall" thing... that whole article has to be a joke... it HAS TO BE!

i cant wait for the 2020 DR elections to see these people's reaction to Ramfis
 
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NanSanPedro

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This is an opinion piece and not a news article. I don't share her opinions. While I know of racist attitudes by some Dominicans, I have not seen that much of it, especially in the churches and bateys in and around San Pedro.
 
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Derfish

Guest
give this gem a good read:
the article

i had never laughed so much due to a "news article" report as much as i did for this gem.... who would have known Trujillo wanted to merge the island and Haiti declined so he ordered the "perejil massacre" hahahahahahaha

not even going to comment on the "build a wall" thing... that whole article has to be a joke... it HAS TO BE!

i cant wait for the 2020 DR elections to see these people's reaction to Ramfis

Several years ago I lived with a Dominican lady. It was OK for me to look at Dominican chicas, but I would get hit in the face if she thought I was looking at a Haitiana. I asked her more than once how she surmised that this one or that one was haitiana, and she assured me she could tell and was sure I could too.
Derfish
 
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mountainannie

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Mods - I may be taking this thread into Off Topic - perhaps touching on racism? perhaps Verbotten? Delete if needed.

My own opinion piece - as an American White woman who was in the DR as a journalist for 14 years...

Not meant to offend the sensibilities of Dominicans - Not meant to judge

Simply giving my observations - as close as I can get to what I saw as the reality on the ground --
It is, as said, an opinion piece. Not only that - it is clearly written by someone raised in America - with a US perspective on "racism" and "colorist". There are certainly both in the DR - despite the fact that it is one to the most "blended" places that probably exists in this hemisphere. Anyone who denies this simply has not read the classifieds which call for "buena presncia" or do not know what that means - has not picked up the SD Glossy Magazines to see that there is a Color Bar beyond which the pictures do not appear, has not been to a restaurant in the Nato/Piantini section with a very Dark Skinned Dominican/or Haitian as an escort..Has not heard about Pelo Malo vs Peso Bueno nor seen the pictures of such on the milk cartons given out in public schools.

I do not wish to open as discussion as to whether or not the Dominicans are "racists" since I honestly belive that the vast majority are not - in that they do not belive that "whites" are superior to "blacks" - they may... No one can see into another persons hearts.

But what is a Reality on the Island - which is only one of 7 divided islands in the world - is that there is a nation of 10 or 11 million persons of Extreme Poverty living in an environmentally degraded nation, which has not managed to become self governing despite 200 years of independence - Pressing against a population of 10 or 11 million persons who are about 50% themselves in poverty. The line that Dominicans hold against Haitians - against giving them "citizenship" status and papers - is so that they will not form a voting block inside the Dominican Republic. Thus the "colorism" lens - whatever that may be - is also complicated by nationalism.

And there is a deep and fascinating past on Hispaniola which the opinion writer has clearly not studied.

I went to a conference with both Dominican and Haitian journalist - my report - vis a vis the Trujillo/racism/historty question as answered by a former DR Ambassador to Haiti might be of interest-

http://www.ipsnews.net/2008/11/haiti-dominican-republic-media-unites-to-fight-stereotypes/
 
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KyleMackey

Guest
give this gem a good read:
the article

i had never laughed so much due to a "news article" report as much as i did for this gem.... who would have known Trujillo wanted to merge the island and Haiti declined so he ordered the "perejil massacre" hahahahahahaha

not even going to comment on the "build a wall" thing... that whole article has to be a joke... it HAS TO BE!

i cant wait for the 2020 DR elections to see these people's reaction to Ramfis

The attitude displayed in the article about the DR seems to be pretty common from some in the US. And most of those people never visited the DR for any length of time. 99% don't know who the DR celebrates their Independence Day from.
 
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mountainannie

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Mods - I note that the OP does not have enough posts to read the Off Topic section

So - if you could leave my post on for a bit?

unless the Thread Veers into a Food Fight?

thanks
 
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AlterEgo

Guest
Mods - I note that the OP does not have enough posts to read the Off Topic section

So - if you could leave my post on for a bit?

unless the Thread Veers into a Food Fight?

thanks

I will leave it as long as everyone conducts themselves as you have.
 
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Fulano2

Guest
give this gem a good read:
the article

i had never laughed so much due to a "news article" report as much as i did for this gem.... who would have known Trujillo wanted to merge the island and Haiti declined so he ordered the "perejil massacre" hahahahahahaha

not even going to comment on the "build a wall" thing... that whole article has to be a joke... it HAS TO BE!

i cant wait for the 2020 DR elections to see these people's reaction to Ramfis
Those stories, over and over repeated about slavery, discrimination are so tiresome. Always using these excuses make one weak and pathetical.
 
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bob saunders

Guest
well the writer of the article knows her audience but not her facts. I can only speak about my experience, and I can say I have seen several incidents between Haitians and Dominicans that showed obvious disrespect towards Haitians, but in both cases other Dominicans got involved and defended the Haitians and sent their fellow Dominicans packing. These incidents are pretty rare , at least here in Jarabacoa, and there are lots of Haitians here, both long term residents and lots of new illegals.
Lots of construction and lots of agricultural work. I know of at least three intermarriages between Dominicans and Haitians. The public schools are filled with Haitian children and everyday I see Dominican and Haitian kids playing together. At our school this year we had 13 Haitian kids, all but two born in the DR. There is no difference in the way teachers or anyone else treat Haitians. There will always be uneducated drunks and buffoons that make nasty comments to Haitian women, they do the same to Dominican women and school girls.
 
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the gorgon

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Those stories, over and over repeated about slavery, discrimination are so tiresome. Always using these excuses make one weak and pathetical.

you think slavery and discrimination are tiresome?

i wonder what your opinion would be if you were a victim...

you think they are an excuse? excuse for what?
 
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mountainannie

Guest
you think slavery and discrimination are tiresome?

i wonder what your opinion would be if you were a victim...

you think they are an excuse? excuse for what?

CAREFUL, My Friend

Let us see if we can actually keep this Thread Open for the benefit of the OP
who does not have enough posts to read or post in Off Topic

And keeping in mind that the subject of Racism in General
is NOT permitted here on DR1.

I do most certainly acknowledge - as everyone ought to - that no one who does not have a Black Skin - can actually HAVE the Experience of Racism

That Said

Let us not Try The Patience of the Mods

Who are Volunteers
 
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the gorgon

Guest
CAREFUL, My Friend

Let us see if we can actually keep this Thread Open for the benefit of the OP
who does not have enough posts to read or post in Off Topic

And keeping in mind that the subject of Racism in General
is NOT permitted here on DR1.

I do most certainly acknowledge - as everyone ought to - that no one who does not have a Black Skin - can actually HAVE the Experience of Racism

That Said

Let us not Try The Patience of the Mods

Who are Volunteers

i did not use the word racism in my posting..
 
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Luperon

Guest
I don't think the subject of reparations fall into racism.

The Dominican Republic needs to start having a "conversation" about reparations.

Just my opinion.
 
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mountainannie

Guest

The practice of Rest - avec -- as in "staying with" is certainly practiced in Haiti - and it certainly can be considered a form of "Child Slavery" - and was only made into a Sensation by a Haitian living in the USA who had been one as a child.

It is a practice that is brought on by poverty. Whether or not a child is treated well or ill depends on the family. I have Haitian friends who have taken in children - who do indeed do house work - but are also sent to school, which the family pays for.

I know of Dominicans on the border who have Haitians working for them, young girls of school age, that only work for room and board. Such is poverty.

I have a Dominican friend who was sent to live with his aunt in the country because his parents could not afford to raise him. He said he was lucky that he was treated well enough - that he was sent to school.

To simply term the practice "Slavery" is to eliminate its cultural context... which is exactly the issue that is being discussed with the OP.
 
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the gorgon

Guest
The practice of Rest - avec -- as in "staying with" is certainly practiced in Haiti - and it certainly can be considered a form of "Child Slavery" - and was only made into a Sensation by a Haitian living in the USA who had been one as a child.

It is a practice that is brought on by poverty. Whether or not a child is treated well or ill depends on the family. I have Haitian friends who have taken in children - who do indeed do house work - but are also sent to school, which the family pays for.

I know of Dominicans on the border who have Haitians working for them, young girls of school age, that only work for room and board. Such is poverty.

I have a Dominican friend who was sent to live with his aunt in the country because his parents could not afford to raise him. He said he was lucky that he was treated well enough - that he was sent to school.

To simply term the practice "Slavery" is to eliminate its cultural context... which is exactly the issue that is being discussed with the OP.

the extension of that is the apprentice system, as is seen in the British caribbean. people who are very poor send their children, mainly males, to live with people who have established businesses. so, a plumber, who has sufficient wherewithal to feed and clothe a youngster will have a worker whom he does not pay a salary, but whom he supports. the flipside is that the young charge gets to ''learn trade''. this is probably a youngster who would not have done well at plane geometry and Caesar's Gallic Wars, but will probably become a great plumber in the course of things.
 
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mountainannie

Guest
Cut and paste -

from my article - cited

...
...
“I do not blame Dominicans who hold negative views of Haitians since that is how they were taught since they were young,” said Giselda Liberato, coordinator of Intercultural Programmes for the development agency Plan International. “We were told terrible things. We were told that they were savages, even that they were cannibals. So it is not the fault of Dominicans who have been misinformed.”

“Many Dominicans do not have an opportunity to meet people of a high level of education. They do not meet their peers. We wanted Dominican journalists to meet Haitian journalists who are at the same level of education, so that they can meet one another as professionals,” she told IPS."...

Ruben Silie, sociologist and former general secretary of the Association of Caribbean States, explained to the group the history of the island from the discovery by Columbus to the present day. When questioned particularly about why Dominicans do not identify themselves with any African heritage despite the obvious racial characteristics in their appearances, Silie explained: “Under Trujillo, the history books were written to eliminate all mention of slavery. The people were told that they were descendants of Spanish colonists and Indians.”

The information caused a stir among the Haitians in the room. Marie Keetie Louis, a Haitian interpreter who lives in Santo Domingo, said, “But they were taught a lie. That explains so much about them.”

Jose Seruelle, ambassador from the Dominican Republic to Haiti responded: “One must remember that Trujillo was a fascist dictator, that he used the issue of Haitians for his own benefit. He did this to maintain himself, as a pretext to combat his opponents, his Dominican opponents. There was always the pretext of the blacks, the Haitians, who had to be put out of the country. But it should be remembered that this same Trujillo used the Haitian workers to exploit them and to enrich himself. There was hypocrisy there.”

“But in the interior of the Dominican soul, there is no racism,” Seruelle added. There is a racism that is present at the level of the schools, but this is fought more and more by the Dominican people and by the Dominican government because the Dominican government does not accept racism.”

...
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http://www.ipsnews.net/2008/11/haiti-dominican-republic-media-unites-to-fight-stereotypes/

my work - during my 14 years there - was to interview in French/(I could always find a French/Kreole translator in place) and Spanish and then write the articles in English
 
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