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  1. #11
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    [QUOTE=Big;1967505]
    Quote Originally Posted by Caonabo View Post
    Care to expand?[/QUOTE

    I think u know
    If I knew, I would not have asked. It is an attempt at carrying on a conversation in regards to proposal by an RD senator. Again, care to expand?

  2. #12
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    [QUOTE=Caonabo;1967508]
    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post

    If I knew, I would not have asked. It is an attempt at carrying on a conversation in regards to proposal by an RD senator. Again, care to expand?
    it has some very similar parallels to the issues that are going on in the U.S or should I say exactly the same dynamics. Border security, state sovereignty, economics, human rights etc

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caonabo View Post
    The article piece is from four years ago. That perhaps provides you with an answer in of itself.
    I'm pretty sure they built something.

    I will reach out to one of the Capellan cousins and see if he has an update.,
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobraboy View Post
    I'm pretty sure they built something.

    I will reach out to one of the Capellan cousins and see if he has an update.,
    Its called CODEVI and been there since early 2000’s. Built by Grupo-M, but now not exclusively Grupo-M facilities.

    It’s in Ouanaminthe, just across the river in Haiti. A bridge was built to access it, aduanas facilities built to handle customs when transporting goods to and from Santiago, dormitories for Dominican workers, cafeteria, and even a hotel for customers to stay in when visiting.

    One of the biggest challenges early on was instilling a dependable work ethic in the Haitians from the surrounding countryside. The desire to work and make money was there. Being at work on time, and getting them to show up every day of the work week was a challenge.

    The 2015 article linked above is Vicini and Fernando wanting to further develop cooperation between the countries on human development issues, not regarding initial construction of the free zone.

    http://www.grupom.com.do/codevi.php

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  6. #15
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    [QUOTE=Big;1967513]
    Quote Originally Posted by Caonabo View Post

    it has some very similar parallels to the issues that are going on in the U.S or should I say exactly the same dynamics. Border security, state sovereignty, economics, human rights etc
    Now I understand your original comment. Yes, you are correct, but let us try to keep it within the parameters of RD. Deviating will just cause a valuable thread to be shut down, but once again. The people of this region need the attention.

  7. #16
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    It has been successful in countries like Mexico, but that is a very big country. Plus, much of what is produced at the border heads to the USA.

    How much of the production is expected to be consumed in Haiti? How much in the DR? Isn't Dominican society concentrated away from the border with Santo Domingo and Santiago representing the main consumer markets in the country (and main industrial zones too)?

    I don't think the plan will work in general, but it has the greatest shot in the free trade zone factories.

    The other aspect is if its a good idea to make the border a major population center. While it's true that the Haitian side of the border is much more populated than the Dominican side, the region is among the least populated parts of both countries.

    This plan will also benefit Dominicans that likes using Haitian labor in large quantities. In fact, it's the best of both worlds because it allows Dominican business owners to tap into the vast labor market in Haiti while enjoying the protection and stability of the Dominican government. It's the main reason companies such as Grupo M built their factories right along the border, but in the Dominican side instead of putting the factories deep in Haiti where most of the people live. Don't worry, Grupo M factory has a door right on the border where Haitian workers use to enter the place and then go home in Outhaminthe (spelling?). It even has a bridge of its own and everything. Lol

    The plan even if entirely successful will not have an effect on Haiti for the simple reason that Dominican businesses that use Haitians en masse will not have the desired effect in the Haitian economy. Aside that there aren't enough, it's too faraway from the centers of Haiti's population and production centers (population always follow the production centers) to have a good economic effect.

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  8. #17
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    [QUOTE=Big;1967513]
    Quote Originally Posted by Caonabo View Post

    it has some very similar parallels to the issues that are going on in the U.S or should I say exactly the same dynamics. Border security, state sovereignty, economics, human rights etc
    But do the Haitians pay for it?

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NALs View Post
    How much of the production is expected to be consumed in Haiti? How much in the DR? Isn't Dominican society concentrated away from the border with Santo Domingo and Santiago representing the main consumer markets in the country (and main industrial zones too)?
    A tiny number.

    But the purpose of a Free Zone is employment, along with the accrued long-term economic benefits therein. Not consumption. More gainfully employed workers would be a massive boost for the Haitian economy, and may help with a more stable government. Full bellies are less prone to violence.

    If more Haitians could be gainfully employed in such ventures, this takes a burden off scarce Dominican resources, especially healthcare.

    A reduction of Haitian construction workers would result in higher wages for Dominican construction workers (along with costlier construction; not too concerned about that, because costs overall would still be low.)

    I see huge win/win value propositions of more free zones in the frontier regions.
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  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFA123 View Post
    Its called CODEVI and been there since early 2000’s. Built by Grupo-M, but now not exclusively Grupo-M facilities.

    It’s in Ouanaminthe, just across the river in Haiti. A bridge was built to access it, aduanas facilities built to handle customs when transporting goods to and from Santiago, dormitories for Dominican workers, cafeteria, and even a hotel for customers to stay in when visiting.

    One of the biggest challenges early on was instilling a dependable work ethic in the Haitians from the surrounding countryside. The desire to work and make money was there. Being at work on time, and getting them to show up every day of the work week was a challenge.

    The 2015 article linked above is Vicini and Fernando wanting to further develop cooperation between the countries on human development issues, not regarding initial construction of the free zone.

    http://www.grupom.com.do/codevi.php

    I was involved with a company in Haiti many years ago. To say it was difficult would be an understatement.

    Many of the employees had never used a toilet or a sink before. Getting them to concentrate on their particular task was a gargantuan effort.

    Many times a trained employee would do their task correctly for a day or two, then arbitrarily decide they would do it however they wanted. Unless a quality control person or lead was close by an operator could do a lot of inferior work.

    Quality was a challenge to say the very least.

    And yet I will say they were and still are wonderful people.

    I can only imagine what Haiti would be like if they had a functional government and good schools.

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  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobraboy View Post
    A tiny number.

    But the purpose of a Free Zone is employment, along with the accrued long-term economic benefits therein. Not consumption. More gainfully employed workers would be a massive boost for the Haitian economy, and may help with a more stable government. Full bellies are less prone to violence.

    If more Haitians could be gainfully employed in such ventures, this takes a burden off scarce Dominican resources, especially healthcare.

    A reduction of Haitian construction workers would result in higher wages for Dominican construction workers (along with costlier construction; not too concerned about that, because costs overall would still be low.)

    I see huge win/win value propositions of more free zones in the frontier regions.
    The investment has to be in Haiti for the government over there to be an issue at all. The fact is that most of the factories are on the DR side of the border while using an overwhelmingly Haitian workforce. I wish people would use an actual map instead of Google Maps and notice that the Dajabon River is in most areas of that province at the border and in some areas to the east of the border. At no point in the Dajabon province does some land east of the river is part of Haiti. Google Maps show the factories to be in Haiti when they are not. To make matters worse, that part of the border was officially signed in 1776 and 1777 by Spain and France, and hasn't been touched since!

    The same thing happens where Santiago, La Vega, and Espaillat provinces meet. Google Maps says one thing, but any official map clearly shows those borders to be wrong in the online source. They even have a sign at Acero Estrella welcoming everyone to Santiago. LOL

    The other issue is what will be done with all the other Haitians who will move to the border from many areas of Haiti looking for their piece too and not find it? The border is so close by and in most areas wide open and porous.
    Last edited by NALs; 08-08-2019 at 02:53 PM.

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