ETHICS in the DR.....Does it exist?

Ethics do exist in the DR but like everyplace else there are those who ignore them.
One of the main problems in the DR with ethics is that there are few professional organizations in existence to police them. Most professional groups are set up to promote the industry. In the US we have organizations like the AMA and the ABA that take their profession and its ethics very seriously. The medical associations in the DR is more concerned with wages and working conditions.
Mix in corruption and you can see how ethics is hard to maintain in the DR. Do you think that in the DR a lawyer as Famous and powerful as a F. Lee Baily could be disbared?

Tony C.

Another consideration...what is ethics...is it the same worldwide or do ethics change based on local morals? In many countries bribery is considered a cost of doing business. The US punishes American companies that engage in this practice even though they are trying to do business in these countries.

Is it right for the US to try to impose our sense of morals and ethics on others?

MommC

Sometimes the things you say get you in trouble. Sometimes the way you word your ideas tend to leave an aftertaste that I don't like. How about Ethics in DR: Is it different than in Canada, US ______ (add country of your choice here)? But for the sake of peace and harmony and whatnot I will assume that the latter was your question; I'll blame your _{^{too often}} unfortunate wording to the way your brain is wired and be done with it.

Yes, ethics varied from country to country and from culture to culture. Like El Jefe I think that one should not try to enforce one's ethical values on other cultures, or judge them by our standards. Things that may be completely normal and acceptable in one culture and being unimaginable in another. Vive la diferance! The only exception that I make is when those "local moral values" encourage, enforce and or excuse the violation of human rights. This we should never mess with.

As for Dominican Ethics, what kind of "ethics" are we talking about? The subject is too broad, is it Professional Ethics, Business Ethics? And yes, these do exist. Yes, we are all bound by it, most (all?)universities in DR have Professional Ethics as part of their program. Yes, all professional associations and unions have a way to enforce ethics among their members. Like everywhere there are issues, there has been improvements, there will be improvements.

Bribery might be "the cost of doing business" but it is still cnsidered un-ethical. Most countries I know of have laws against bribery. Whether it is imposed is another story.

Tony C.

Like jefe say, "bribery is the cost of getting things done..." in many countries. American companies often indulge in such practices when dealing businesses in foreign countries, which allow these practices. Ex: I know for a fact that a leading american telecommunication company had to bribe a million dollars to a person in the ministry of telecommunication of Saudi Arabia to get the contract to wire up certain parts of the country. My friend personally knew that person and yes the money was deposited in his Swiss account.
How do you think American airlines was able to secure certain landing slots at major airports in DR and maintain their monopoly for such a long time? Many major US carriers have to bribe people all over the world to get certain contracts done. Ex: right now a major US carrier is stepping into African market and they are in negotiation to get certain airline's maintenance contract to keep their planes FAA approved and mechanically sound. These contracts worth millions of dollar annually. You actually think the airline will win all these contracts without greasing up some political minister or a business man with contacts?
This is done everyday in almost every country.

I don't think that "ethics" are any different than other countries. You will find scumbags in every flavor.

I have learned to take the word of Dominicans that I am friendly and friends with, with a grain of salt. I think that they say what they think will make you happy and not necessarily what they will do or feel.

After saying that I will also say that I value the friendship of these people albeit they don't have the same understanding that I have of being a man of their words.

Tony C said:

Bribery might be "the cost of doing business" but it is still cnsidered un-ethical. Most countries I know of have laws against bribery. Whether it is imposed is another story.

Tony C.

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Sometimes Ethics can be confused with hipocrisy, you're ethical only to the point where you're not found out. Bribery is very visible in third world countries because every one has a hand out and you can bribe almost anyone from the smallest concierge to the president of a bank, but the president of the bank will make sure the bribery is disguised as "commission", "services rendered", etc. In developed countries, like the US or England, for example, bribery can be camouflaged as "campaign contribution", "charity donation", gifts (such as a valuable piece of art), etc...

And what about the famous "lobbyists" in the Washington, DC corridors and hallways, that's legal bribery if such an animal could exist...

And please, do not offend a NYPD officer's sense of ethics with a bribe of $100, he'll take you straight to jail, now if you offer $10,000 then you're talking...

I totally agree with both AZB and Jazz. Every culture faces the same ethical problems and questions, hence why it has been studied since the time of Aristotle!!

But the difference is in what Jazz said about taking someone at their word. In the social structure of the US (and I assume Canada), when someone says they're going to do something, they do it, and if they don't you can yell at them, because they were supposed to based on the fact they said they would. But in the DR (and other Latin cultures, believe me!) one's word isn't taken as law. This can be hard for us gringos to get used to, but true.

P.S. A prime example: I cracked up in my grammar class the other day when we were talking about phrasing probability and how puede que and es probable take subjunctive but others only do sometimes, etc. And our teacher informed us that 'seguramente' actually means 'a lo mejor'. No one else in the class laughed, but I was chuckling, saying 'it figures!'

on the topic of morals...

bugsey- very interesting reply. i have to agree with you on how we gringos take peoples word. we always do especially by using "intuition" and other factors such as how well we know the person.
I am returning to the DR next month and now am skeptical about the kind, friendly domincan people. It is hard for me to use my intuition and good judgement because of the language/cultural barriers, as i am cautious wherever i go even in my own country and people i talk to etc, should i be extra cautious here? Are a lot of Dominicans not as trustworthy as i thought they were?

And lastly, since ethics are part of morals, what are some morals that the Dominicans have- about life in general, how women are treated, interactions with others. also is there anything that Dominicans would not do that Americans would or vice versa?

Whether a act is seen, discovered or condoned is not the question. An un-ethical act is still un-ethical even if nobody is aware of it. Even in countries where bribery is rampant, there are laws against bribery of public officials.
We live in a society were Ethics are taking a back seat to instant gratification. A recent survey of High Schoolers in the US showed that a large majority of students believe it is ok to cheat on an exam to get good grades. Does the fact that the majority of students think that it is ok to cheat make it ethical?

Tony C.

Wow Tony I'm really impressed. Double wow never thought I'd ever say that to you.

ok, folks....

In order to have a true exchange of ideas or opinions , a basis for an argument has to be established. Namely, definitions for the terms "ethic" and "moral" have to accepted by all:

moral: adj. conforming to standards of what is right or just in behaviour;virtuous. arising form conscience or the sense of right and wrong.

moral:n. the lesson or principle contained in or taught by a fable,story or event. a concisely expressed precept or general truth.

morals: rules of conduct, especially sexual conduct

ethic: a principle or right of good conduct. a system of moral principles or values.

ethics: the rules or standards governing the conduct of members of a profession.

"Moral pertains to personal behaviour (especially sexual) measured by prevailing standards of rectitude. Ethical approaches behaviour from a philosophical standpoint; it stresses more objectively defined, but essentially idealistic, standards of right and wrong, such as those applicable to practices of lawyers,doctors, and businessmen."

American Heritage Dictionary

Ms. Mathilda

ms.mathilda said:

I am returning to the DR next month and now am skeptical about the kind, friendly domincan people. It is hard for me to use my intuition and good judgement because of the language/cultural barriers, as i am cautious wherever i go even in my own country and people i talk to etc, should i be extra cautious here? Are a lot of Dominicans not as trustworthy as i thought they were?

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It depends on your definition of trustworthy, Ms. Mathilda. (Why didn't you look up that one Mondongo????) I think there are as many people out to screw you in the DR as there are in the US, but there will be more people that will say they will do something/be somewhere and then not do it!

I don't think most Dominicans act this way specifically to be un-trustworthy or sneaky or anything, I think (as I said before) it is just a cultural difference. They are used to it and we are not. It doesn't necessarily mean you can't trust them but if the plumber says he's going to be there in an hour he might not show up for 7 or 8...

As I said before this lifestyle is by far not only in the DR. I think the fact that we are not familiar with this is a symptom of the North American tendency to run around like headless chickens in order to improve efficiency (both in work and daily life). Other cultures (i speak for europe and latin america) are a little more 'chill' when it comes to living.

Example: When we go out to eat in Boston, if the waitress doesn't come in 5 or 10 minutes, my mom wants to get up and leave and go to another restaurant because she thinks the service stinks. I warned her when she came to italy that if she did that she would spend the whole night walking around looking for a place to eat!

Bugsey is totally right...

I learned in the US the value of time and how to maximize it and in the process stressed myself to death. In the DR they have, in Pib's own words, the "cogelo suave" attitude (take it easy, don't sweat it). You'll go crazy if you try to rationalize this, like I did when I came back after almost 30 years of living abroad, now I just laugh and try to adopt the same attitude, even though it's hard sometimes.

Anecdote:

I went to an "express" car wash, the keyword here is "express", because when you go to a regular car wash they have big screen TV's (you might end up watching all 9 innings of a baseball game before the finish with your car), they also have restaurants, hair salons, nail places, etc. But an express is the one you see anywhere in the US where you're in and out in 5 minutes (the story of my life), here on the other hand, with only two cars in front of me, I waited 45 minutes to get my car in the "car washing" tunnel, they actually hand wash your car, including tires, before going in the washing cycle, after you get outside, it's another 45 minutes to get someone to dry your car, because they do a minutious job, even inside the car. When I got tired of waiting and was leaving with my car dripping wet, they stopped me: "where're you going, rubia (blondie)? I explained to him really mad the meaning of express car wash, he very calmly (and in a very persuasive Dominican way) asked me to take it easy and not sweat it, the world wasn't going to come to an end and asked me if I left platanos (Dominican bananas) boiling in the stove, I couldn't argue their philosophy because they don't understand ours, so I decided to wait my turn and just chill.

Response to Marilyn

The dont sweat it attitude applies also if you house is on fire. Your house will be completly burned to the ground before Los Bomberos find diesel fuel for the fire engine.

Same goes if you are involved in a traffic accident, by the time the ambulance gets to the scene, well too late.

Re: Boring

Onions&carrots said:

My definition of ethics is that this board has become so ethical it's boring. It's just like all of you boring bland potato gringos-real boring. Even the dominicans are boring. They aren't dominican anymore but a bastardized americanized version of a dominican. they are just like Taco Bell- america's version of Mexicana.

Lately all the threads are dull,uneventful with no spice to it. The topics create no stir. They feel like a swampy day in the Everglades. This used to be fun when Isaac Greene,Golo,Criss,AZB,Jazzcom and all of were slinging mud at each other. Now its all about boring garbage and mostly non-related dumb jokes. So I am going to take a hiatus from this site and return a long.long time from now.

I don't care if you reply. Just keep up with your ho-hum life. On the univision website there is a forum for the Dominican Republic.Its more exciting and full of real Dominicans saying it as it is. Check it out but its only in Spanish.

Seeya and wouldn't wannabeya!! PEACE! I'm outta here-ya heard me!

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I wouldn't want to be disingenous and say that I would miss your mostly immature tripe so I will just say bbye.

Ok, Jazz, I have no idea where you got that post, but anyhoo:

What do we think Dominicans would have to say about this one. I think it's a bunch of crap that perpetuates our rushing around:

from CNN.com

WARWICK, England (CNN) -- A mathematical formula calculated by a British university professor has found that time actually is money.

According to the equation, the average British minute is worth just over 10 pence (15 cents) to men and eight pence (12 cents) to women.

The formula is: V=(W((100-t)/100))/C, where V is the value of an hour, W is a person's hourly wage, t is the tax rate and C is the local cost of living.

It shows that there is no such thing as a free lunch or even a free dinner, while brushing your teeth for three minutes uses up 30 pence (45 cents) in "lost" time, and washing a car by hand has a hidden cost of ?3 ($4.50).

Economics professor Ian Walker, of central England's Warwick University, says process can show people just how valuable their time is in relation to any task they have to perform, from a lie-in or cooking a meal to sleeping and working.

He says it also allows people to work out whether they are getting a fair rate for overtime, as well as helping them to decide whether it is worth spending extra cash to save time.

He must have deleted the post since he kept on posting. I didn't make it up ya know. Go figger...

Listen, as a North American I have to agree that time is money but when you are in the DR things just don't appear to be what they are.

AZB was right and I agree with him. Either you move on and just take care of YOUR problems or they will eat you up and swallow you whole. Take it all with a grain of salt and move onwards and upwards constantly.