U.S. Corruption

People who gave a shit

I'll second that emotion!

It worked in Canada and Britain also!

You have to do more than make promises during the campaign....

Unlike the DR, where politicians promise to end corruption but don't follow through, politicians and law enforcement agencies in the US take action. The treasury department and FBI, for example, have agents assigned to combat corruption, and Congressional committees go into action at first hint of official corruption at the federal level.

I'm hoping that efforts underway in the DR to require politicians to run on their own merits will be an important step toward ending corruption by political leaders here. This gives oppostion candidates and parties an incentive for exposing corruption and enables voters to voice their disapproval at the polls.

A few "Things" that parents teach their children..

.....like responsibility,honesty,honor,work ethic,charity,the value of a good education,respect for others, self-respect!and where to find a garbage can!!"Just like here in the dominican republic!...."Oh,Oh,Oh,my nose is starting to grow!!!!!!!!!!" Criss Colonccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

I think checks and balances between the branches of government might have had something to do with it.

A simple will for change

The inherent desire of the average person in the United States to be treated fairly, receive what he/she earns and a desire for freedom.

from the day we kicked the British off our shores until we forced our Congress to Impeach a President that appeared to not be acting in our best interests, citizens have fought with guns and voted at the polls, but have always stood up for themselves

How can you expect something to change in the DR when there is no one group willing to step up to the plate?

Janice

Keeping in mind that the first "Americans"

as in United States of American were British I have often said the following.
Take a good look around the world today........
Where the British colonized there is order,due process,progress and a standard of living that is unparalleled. Where the French colonized there is disorder, civil unrest, and lack of progress (witness Haiti and yes even here in Canada -Quebec). Where the Spanish colonized there is corruption at all levels,lack of progress and apathy,and poor living conditions.
Thank goodness the Brit's came to North America or today the great nations of upper North America may be in the same state as the DR.

The only National level politician in the US that I've seen them go after lately for "corruption" is James Trafficante of Ohio. I think the only reason they went after him was he's a pain in the butt to his own party.

We don't have corrruption...we have lobbying and if folks don't think that is buying a politician they are asleep at the wheel. We're just more discreet...

English Order

Mommy

You had better check your history as to order from English colonization.

The US was formed by English dissidents, not those satisfied with the English "System"

As for English colonies or protectorates prospering and maintaining order, take a look at Jamaica, India, Pakistan, a little problem called the "Boxer Rebellion" (Though that was aimed at all foreigners) and you will find a miserable record for the "British empire. I could add Northern Ireland, but that is another issue

The English have been kicked out of almost every country they tried to control, hardly a model of order.

Spanish influence in the Western Hemisphere has fared far better

Just because your own Government can't deal with the Province of Quebec, don't blame the French, look at your own ineptitude.

Janice

British Empire

Everyone on this board should read "Why some nations are rich and some are poor" by American author, historian, and economist David Landes.

Without going into detail he delves into the history of Asia, American, Europe and explains why countries such as Egypt, Mexico are where they are today, and why countries such as Germany, US, Canada, Britian, Japan,ect are where they are today.

Most of the "English" speaking colonies(except Jamaica, Guyana, some African states, India Pakistan) have done very well.

"The inherent desire of the average person in the United States to be treated fairly, receive what he/she earns and a desire for freedom." Janice

I agree and you are right, they do desire for freedom because that is exactly what they don't have. The damn system controls everyone there.

I fully agree with criss, responsibility, honor, respect, family values and self-integrity comes from family/home education first and then from school. I have learned form the very beginning the value of one's words. Like we say: "words of a man...".
If your words don't have value then neither do you. I can understand, we can never fully deliver 100% of what we promise at all times but one should, at least, try to attempt to deliver his promises. I always try to stand by my words even if the deal goes sour, I stand by my words.
In my building, I have the most number of patients, not because I am a better doctor or practice a better specialty than the others (mostly dentists and also some lawyers) but because I always try to deliver my services as promised. Most financial companies are leery about lending money to foreigners because they think we will take off on them without a trace but Dominicans just love to rent their property to foreigners because we actually worry about paying the rent. We pay on time and without fault. I would actually cut back on my luxury, skip eating out and actually not rest in peace until I pay back what I owe.
I once made a stupid error. A friend of mine backed his car into my neighbor's parked car from my driveway. The owner was about to call the police and make problems for my guest until I came in to the picture. Knowing my friend, I gave my words to the neighbor that I will make sure that he would get paid for the damage. I was 100% sure that my friend would pay as he promised. My friend had given me his words that he would pay within a week. Well guess what, he disappeared and stopped receiving my calls. The pressure from my neighbor built up and I finally buckled. I paid the guy. It didn't cost me much about 150 dollars but I stood by my words and I gained respect of my neighbor. To me, my ex: friend is nothing more than a con artist with words that have no value. I would never respect that man nor I will ever trust him again. Funny, he still comes to me as though nothing had happened. I am sure he thinks I am a sucker but I know where he stands now. The money I had lost didn't make me poor but it did immeasurable damage to my friend?s reputation. Unfortunately you will find many people like him in Santiago.

AZB, you are sure confused

First you are 100% sure of your friends credibility, then you call him a con artist? You always stand by your word, yet you don't trust your friends?

There is no freedom in the US, but you and almost every person looking for freedom comes to the US?

I have read your anti Semite rants, your posts regarding the US Jewish conspiracy, and my "evaluation of your opinions :You are incompetent to form a valid statement

janice in an ugly mood

LOL janice

Thanks for a good laugh. I do need a bit of ass whiping every once in a while.
By the way what state do you live in? Judging From your friendly mood, I would guess NYC? I would be very surprised and sad if you turn out to be living in DR. What a shame.
You are right, in USA you do have the freedom to insult people and get away with it.
The real freedom lies here, in DR.
Viva republica dominicana. yeah!!!! weekend is here and AZB is dreaming of the beach.

I do need a bit of ass whiping [sic] every once in a while.

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I am hoping this means "ass whipping"...and not "ass wiping". 2 very different things.

Corruption in former British colonies

I have read David Landes' book and found it interesting, but rather simplistic. His arguments are based on global trends and there are too many "exceptions to the rule" available to shoot holes into his generalizations (however apt they are). Other books along this line of global development analysis that I have found to be much better include "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond (also a Harvard professor) and "Ecological Imperialism: the Biological Expansion of Europe 900-1900" by Alfred W. Crosby.

Actually, it appears that those countries that either have a strong tradition of democratic process and/or a strong tradition of centralized government with emphasis on education and creating a strong infrastructure for positive economic growth lead the world today. Neo-Europes, as Alfred Crosby calls them (lands that were favored by Europeans for immigration because of similarities in temperate climate and the lack of large numbers of indigenous inhabitants originally)are often today's global economic success stories, but not always. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and the United States of America are doing quite well. Argentina, Chile, and Uruguay, which also fall into this category are not doing as well. Countries such as Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan are also doing well, even if they are not Neo-European countries, but they have adopted either democratic institutions or have governments that generally support universal education and promote private economic investment and growth. It wasn't until these countries adopted these traditions post-WWII that economic development began to bloom

Many former British colonies DO NOT fall into this category. India and Pakistan had a gloss of British structure and government over a vast majority of non-European peoples with their own traditions, divisions, and cultural heritages. The British as colonial rulers often DID NOT train sufficient numbers of "colonials" to take over for them when they left. The vast majority of citizens in these British colonies did not adopt the British sense of governmental responsibility or ethics. When they received their independence they often rejected British notions of power-sharing and check and balances in favor (favour - for the Queen's English readers) of furthering their own traditional agendas based on tribal, ethnic, or racial identity. Most African countries fall into this category. Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, Grenada, and many other former British colonies in the Caribbean also fall into this category. Corruption is often endemic in these places. Divisions between classes and racial categories (in Jamaica between poor versus middle class versus wealthy, mulatto and black) often help thwart a sense of civic spirit for the country in general. Distrust between Indian descendents and African descendents have also caused serious rifts along party lines in Trinidad and Tobago and Guyana. Just like in the D.R., when these parties get into power, it is time to feed at the trough until they are voted out. The concept of civic duty and working for the good of the "pueblo dominicano" is still weak and it may take several generations before it comes to pass - but I will remain hopeful. Remember, democracy is in its infancy in the D.R. (I would argue that we can point to the 1978 elections as the foundation stone of the democratic tradition in the D.R.) and growing pains will be evident (just as they were in the U.S.A. - remember we had a civil war before we sorted things out to a degree). Let's just hope that those civic minded individuals (and there are many in the D.R.) might someday actually obtain some power to promote positive change.

I stand by AZB's words. The US has a system that works because all functional empires are cyclical. One day in the future this country will also fall because this is the fate of all functional empires. Just like the rise and setting of the sun countries also go thru this flux. The DR is down and the US is up. One day it will be changed but not because the Brits,Irish, Spaniards deem it so. It occurs because of natural laws present in the universe. The mass movement of human psychology is another fact of nature. The changing moods thru centuries of caring,wanting a change,apathy,disdain,corruption are unchangeable in humans.The cycle just repeats itself over and over in different countries. The DR will see its time for a US style gov't and who knows what the US will be. One thing is for sure none of us will see these changes.

Onions&carrots said:

I stand by AZB's words. The US has a system that works because all functional empires are cyclical. One day in the future this country will also fall because this is the fate of all functional empires. Just like the rise and setting of the sun countries also go thru this flux. The DR is down and the US is up. One day it will be changed but not because the Brits,Irish, Spaniards deem it so. It occurs because of natural laws present in the universe. The mass movement of human psychology is another fact of nature.

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Ugh, how simplistic do you want to make it? If you were one of my students, you just got a D-. First of all, all empires are functional or they wouldn't be....an empire. This is redundant and a tautological statement. Yes, all empires eventually end.. another simplistic point. Please illuminate us on the universal laws of human behavior O&C. We anthropologists have been working on these issues for well over two hundred years and the only universals that we have are terribly simplistic: all societies need to deal with the quest for reproduction, shelter, food production, superstructure (or the quest to explain the beyond, i.e. concepts of religion) and social organization. How they do it varies exponentially over the human experience. Let's not get too simplistic O&C, really, you are not dealing with complete idiots here.

AZB, no insults

I simply replied to your comments with an opinion of their underlying content.

If you feel that your own words are demeaning to yourself, well I believe that is a situation only you can resolve

No, I do not live in NYC, have no desire to live in the DR, I aspire to retire before I am 50 and see little hope of legally doing such in the DR. I did enjoy my one vacation to the DR and hope to repeat in the near future.

If freedom is "surviving" and going to the beach, that is not the life I chose. Your hedonistic lifestyle is not what I envision, nor have any interest in.

Nine years of post graduate education deserved greater remuneration than I could ever receive in the, and I do enjoy the fairness of the legal system in the United States as compared to most other countries of the World. (even the "Infamous" Kennedy relative, michael Skakel was just found guilty of a 30 year old murder)

Enjoy your weekend at the beach, I need to bill excessive hours to offset a miserable stock market

Janice

My hat is OFF to "Janice"!

I like both your content,and your style!Keep up the great work.On The DR1 Open Forum you are a refreshing breeze in a desert of "Hot Air"!Criss Colon