peole who gave a s**t?

If I remember the original post correctly, that phrase was taken out of context... It was aluding to why corruption in the US is less of a problem than in the DR... He wasnt stating that nobody cares in the DR, just that corruption is generally tolerated by the population/government....

lets not start another flame war here....

shadley000 is right....

You are taking the phrase out of context. Was this an honest error or an attempt to stir up trouble?

There have been many positive statements made on this board about the Mirabal sisters and other Dominicans who stood up for freedom. jazzcom merely replied to a question (posted by a Dominican) asking why the US had been able to significantly reduce corruption while the Dominican Republic hasn't yet been able to.

If you have a bone to pick, pick it with the Dominican who asked the question to which jazzcom responded.

If a Cuban arrives in the US in a homemade boat,

..and your mother arrived in an "airplane",does that make her better?"Freddy" is a "Show Boat",who practices "Self-Promotion" until I get sick!There is no "Freedom" of the press in the DR! All the news media are controlled by a handful of families!You read,hear,and see what they want you to see! The DR is free,because the US Marines came in and "Cleaned-Up" in "65"! CRISCO

First of all do NOT put words in my mouth. If you want to quote me you can do that but DO NOT make up BS and post that it came from me. After saying that I will go on.

The corruption in the DR is TERRIBLE. It doesnt hurt me and probably makes things just a little easier for me. It is the Dominican people that it hurts. Misappropriation of some of these Sovereign bonds monies is a prime example. 50 million or something like that for a hospital for senators?

If it wasn't for the coruption I probably wouldnt get 23.58 percent on my peso, or 15.xx on my dollars. If it weren't for the coruption I wouldn't get 25 dollar a night "NICE" hotels to stay at. I probably wouldnt get 10 peso beach chairs also. I wouldnt be able to buy a nice 2 bedroom condo for 29,000 dollars in a resort area.

I do have to tell you how amazed at what a 20 dollar bill US got me in 1968 in the DR from the ARMY.

I bet you don't even know the "why" to these statements, huh?

I bet you wouldn't stand up and do anything to fix these problems either.

When I was in Amsterdam I went to a bar with a friend to play chess, drink beer and rest my tired feet after walking all day in the rain. After two or three beers I ran out of Guilders. I had travelers checks, US dollars and credit cards. They wouldn't take any it for another beer. I had been tipping the Bartender after every beer and took them to the table where we had been playing chess. This guy, just like you, says to me in his German type accent "your American Dollars Von't be Vorth Shit here in 6 months" I replied to him. "I am just here to drink your beer, screw your women and **** in your canals and won't be here in 6 months". I turned on my heels and walked away hoping he would get up, which of course he didn't.

I felt like saying something of the sort to you but I really like the DR too much to insult it, but what I will tell you is this.

Yeah Jazz fight the good fight they are all losers and
terrorists anyway. Make'm feel the mighty $.

Ps. Problem is you don't make manny friends that way.

x_man said:

Yeah Jazz fight the good fight they are all losers and
terrorists anyway. Make'm feel the mighty $.

Ps. Problem is you don't make manny friends that way.

Click to expand...

Now don't put words in my mouth either. Only person I alluded was a terrorist was AZB but I feel different about him now. He also does not make gratuitous slams on Jews anymore either on the board.

So X, you think that this is the place for making friends? I actually have made some decent friends here come to think of it that I see in the DR when I go down and will probably meet others in the States.

I wasn't trying to make him feel the mighty dollar if that's what you were thinking. I was trying to answer a person that made up something that wasn't and trying to restrain myself at the same time. I actually am more calm when someone is trying to get at me than when someone is assailing Blacks or Jews or other groups gratuitously. I am a hard ass. I attract posts like that with my being so forthright. I should be more PC I guess.

Well X, here's to ya

Hi Jazz_man,
When you say it like that who could resist your 'cowboy' charm.
I guess diplomacy is a foreign concept for you.
No harm done or intended. X.

Out of Context "THREAD CLOSED"

Definitely taken out of context, but noW a mud slinging CONTEST is going on, wish I could say "THREAD CLOSED"

Wooddy...

acostate! es mui tarde. X

no mud slinging on my part. I said what I wanted to say.

Cant a guy have some fun?

Re: Out of Context "THREAD CLOSED"

Hlywud said:

Definitely taken out of context, but noW a mud slinging CONTEST is going on, wish I could say "THREAD CLOSED"

Click to expand...

Context? We don't need no Stinkin' Context!

Tony C.

Historical perspective on a touchy subject

If memory serves, it seems that the quote was taken out of context. Vulgarity aside, lots of Dominicans "give a shit". but, and this is important, there is a very Dominican saying that applies here: "In dirty water, everyone can fish" -rough translation.

This means that the status quo seems to benefit a lot of people.
The ones that drive with no papers; the ones that get water and electricity with illegal hook ups; the ones that do business and pay no taxes; those that have many employees and pay little or no Social Security....the list is probably endless.

From my august viewpoint, I tell my students that this has been here for centuries, in every important institution that ever goverened the land. The Church in the 1500s (at least until 1555 and probably quite a bit after Trent because of apathy and lack of communication and inertia) was, by any measure, only interested in obtaining worldly power and to this end had for sale just about anything a person needed. Dispensations, bishoprics, convents, and all the parrishes, as well as all the jobs within the Church, such as secretaries, scribes, judges and so forth were all on sale to the highest bidder. The Church, in turn, had given the administration of the Church in the New World to the Kings of Spain (for a modest fee). The practices of the Church were also not only tolerated by, but insisted upon, by the governments of the Colonies...that is, all the governmental posts were also for sale, again to the highest bidder, and in some cases for a fixed sum (the anata and the media anata). So the two most powerful institutions of the New World were completely corrupted from the git go...

From this scenario sprang the governments of the free nations in the 19th century. Now what model could they most easily follow? The US Constitution was readily available in translation, but it was too vague for a people used to having every little detail worked out for them. The first Dominican constitution had like 210 articles, of which only the last one was realy important, because it excused the President from any culpability for anything he did in the name of the Republic!! The rest was just paper, as the former president Balaguer has said on occasion..

Of course there are Dominicans that give a shit, but it is like swimming in peanut butter....For more than a decade the USAID and the PUCMM have had a program centered around institutionality and justice.....slowly, it is taking effect...but hell, I have snails that move faster on my garden walls...after all, Dominicans are working against 500 years of graft and corruption...

Go easy, do your bit, try and do things right...

Yes, I KNOW it is difficult.

HB

First...Bosch was thrown out of power by the upper class Dominicans who did not like his plans for redristrbuting wealth. They were protecting their property and fortunes from a man indoctrinated in socialism.

Second...please show proof that the DR is less corrupt than 40 years ago. I lived there 40 years ago and I know of no time my folks or I had to bribe a customs officer, at the airport or aduana, a policeman, or a politician. Was there graft, yes but it was at the higher levels.

Most of the immigrants to the US in the early days were not wealthy. They were often sponsored by someone wealthy and expected to pay that person back through either labor or goods. Some were educated, many were not. In my family, about 1/4 were "educated" and 3/4 were dirt farmers or miners with little if any education. They had one thing going for them...a work ethic that is missing in most parts of the US today.

The Mirabals, like most of the anti-trujillo faction were Landed rich who were protecting their wealth. Most were former Trujillistas who had benefitted from thir associations with El Chivo, until they had a falling out because of his paranoia or greed. I cannot think of one member of the Trujillo Assasination action teams that had not at one time or another been associated with him.

Wow, another good history lesson. I am a sponge for the info posted about historical events in Dominican History.

Harold your explanation about the success in the US is not even close. Political vs Economic refugees is just fishing on your part. I think it is not even close to being as simple as you put it.

I believe the question was " Why did the US overcome corruption, and when the DR hasn't been able to".

I said "the people gave a shit" or something close to that. I will stand by that statement. If more people gave a shit in the DR I believe that it would be in much better shape. Hillbilly states that there are very many pigs sucking on the same teat and that is the reason but I believe that class struggle is the answer and you all have to wiggle a lot harder and faster to achieve respect.

Look at the other threads. People say that North Americanos come to the DR with the expectations that they do business their way and that is wrong. Bribery is right.

How can you even think about being considered a world class country and people with attitudes like that? Honest people don't choose to do business that way! Business people don't choose to do business that way!

I wouldnt EVER go into a business climate like that! I want to earn my money not just figure out whom to pay off to survive.

My best friend in the US is Dominican who is supposedly connected along with his family in the DR to the creme de la creme. Every time I go to the DR he wants to hook me up with his brother, a General or two and even stay at a Generals home.

So far every Dominican I have met in the US has connections to make me a lot of money Gimme a break, even the people that know me think I will fall for this crap and make stupid investments or any investment in a climate like that.

Are there people that are trying to make positive changes in the DR? Are there good people in the DR? Are there honest people in the DR? The answer of course is "sure there are". Is there a big enough percentage of the population in the DR that wants to change the evil ways and make it better there? This is where we may differ, "I think not". Am I saying that the majority are bad people? The answer to that is NO, they aren't bad people but they just don't care enough to create positive change.

I have watched people (Dominicans) just about cry when they hear what goes on in the country they were born in. That's a shame and a shame on the country. Too bad for the people!
I have read Mondango here on this board cry and tears flow.

Oh well. For me, I will adjust and make my move there to live. I will structure my life so as to have a minimum of discomfort because of the parts I don't like there. Being an American I can't help you but I can point out to you what I feel is wrong and what will make it better for the masses in my opinion.

Sorry about anything that I said that insulted you. I don't want to cause you discomfort. I am just speaking my piece, expressing my feelings and still learning.

Regards

Generals and others

The Part II to my former expos? would haveincluded the English Puritanical Tradition, instilled in the colonial society back in the 1600s...Of course Englis Common Law was always very strict on things like "word of honor" and bribery of public officials.. Death was all too easily the answer.. and God fearing colonists were not about to be expelled from the colony for any number of common offenses that were routinely accepted in the Spanish colonies for reasons already stated.

As for Generals in the DR, they are amongst the most corrupt of the population. They have been stealing (or sucking the public teat, as one poster stated) since they were in school.

Example: Read todays news. there is a retired former head of the Armed Forces, Secretary of the Armed Forces, Lt. General, head of a political party based in retired army people and receiving his very juicy pension from the army--oh, did I mention that he was also Dom. Ambasador in Hait? for a couple of years and an expert in contracting Haitian cane workers at $5.oo a head??? NOW the s.o.b. is trying to get a $48,000RD pesos a month pension from the Chamber of Deputies!! What gall!!

Generals are trained to steal from the time that they are in the Military Academy....they all do it and everyone turns a blind eye...

Proof? Tell me how a guy with their official salary can obtain the riches that they all possess and flaunt!! Answer that!

someone once said that if we gave the country to the generals, since they are such great " economists" - especially the way they handle their money- the DR would be rich beyond belief in a few years!!

Sorry, a sore topic for anyone with eyes....

HB

Criss Colon answered the question

Criss Colon answered the question on page 1 with one simple word in his post......MEDIA!!!When the media gets ahold of corruption/scandal in the U.S., they have a field day with it and the politicians/officials involved are embarassed and fully prosecuted.Any potential coverup is blown out of the water once the media gets ahold of info.This does not seem to be the case in the DR.

By the way....I dont understand why Jazzcom is catching flak over his answer on the original post.
ILoveDR

I don't apologize for my views. My posts were my feelings. You did take liberties with what I said and your translations of what I meant. You weren't far off but far enough to make it NOT what I said albeit the feelings were close to your take on it.

I don't wish anyone discomfort. If you ever need to speak to me about my feelings you can Private message me or email me. I don't mind and I allow it unlike some others.

You will get a more civil response than posting things I said which I didn't because I don't feel that is civil to begin with. Perhaps that is where this thread should have been?


Good evening