- Thread starter Serena
- Start date
Pedro Martinez
N
Not registered
Guest
Not yet
Maybe someday, but he has a LONG way to go. Remember Dwight "Doc" Gooden? He was as dominating as Pedro if not more so during his relatively brief time in the sun, 100+mph fastballs (Pedro usually throws mid 90's in early season but drops to 80's in September-October). Recall Valenzuela, Gidrych (Sp), Hersheiser, they had 7-10 years of great pitching, but nor the 20 year careers of some of the "greats"
There have been so many 3-5 year wonders. Pedro is only in his tenth season, posting only one (1) 20 game winning year. he is fragile spending an inordinately high time on disabled list, does not often go more than 5 innings, usually drops to the mid 80's by August, he is not a "dominating" pitcher like Drysdale, Clemens, Ryan, Randy Johnson and so many others.(His contemporaries, there are so many past pitchers that you just can't compare)
don't get me wrong, I would take Pedro in a heartbeat for team I owned, but I wouldn't count on his "durability"
My picks for the "best ever"
10 "Whitey" Ford
9 Warren Spahn
8 Christy Mathewson
7 Steve Carlton
6 Bob Feller
5 Cy Young
4 Nolan Ryan
3 Sandy Koufax
2 Bob Gibson (THE most dominating pitcher ever!)
1 Walter Johnson
ALL of us will have opinions I am sure, but look at statistics and make your judgment.
Janice, after becoming "unregistered, can't re register and never knowing what my name will be"
Maybe someday, but he has a LONG way to go. Remember Dwight "Doc" Gooden? He was as dominating as Pedro if not more so during his relatively brief time in the sun, 100+mph fastballs (Pedro usually throws mid 90's in early season but drops to 80's in September-October). Recall Valenzuela, Gidrych (Sp), Hersheiser, they had 7-10 years of great pitching, but nor the 20 year careers of some of the "greats"
There have been so many 3-5 year wonders. Pedro is only in his tenth season, posting only one (1) 20 game winning year. he is fragile spending an inordinately high time on disabled list, does not often go more than 5 innings, usually drops to the mid 80's by August, he is not a "dominating" pitcher like Drysdale, Clemens, Ryan, Randy Johnson and so many others.(His contemporaries, there are so many past pitchers that you just can't compare)
don't get me wrong, I would take Pedro in a heartbeat for team I owned, but I wouldn't count on his "durability"
My picks for the "best ever"
10 "Whitey" Ford
9 Warren Spahn
8 Christy Mathewson
7 Steve Carlton
6 Bob Feller
5 Cy Young
4 Nolan Ryan
3 Sandy Koufax
2 Bob Gibson (THE most dominating pitcher ever!)
1 Walter Johnson
ALL of us will have opinions I am sure, but look at statistics and make your judgment.
Janice, after becoming "unregistered, can't re register and never knowing what my name will be"
Nobody can argue that Koufax wasn't great but he only had about 5 years as a dominating pitcher so i would drop him from that list.
I would suggest adding one of the most underated pitchers of all time. Bert Blyleven. Probobly had the best Curve ball ever and he is up there in Wins and K's. His problem was that he played for lousy teams in small markets.
A few other pitchers to mention would be Ferguson Jenkins, Juan Marichal, Mickey Lolich and Jim Palmer.
What about Satchel Paige?
Tony C.
I would suggest adding one of the most underated pitchers of all time. Bert Blyleven. Probobly had the best Curve ball ever and he is up there in Wins and K's. His problem was that he played for lousy teams in small markets.
A few other pitchers to mention would be Ferguson Jenkins, Juan Marichal, Mickey Lolich and Jim Palmer.
What about Satchel Paige?
Tony C.
N
Not registered
Guest
As I said, everyone will have differing opinions and "greats," Mickey Lolich, Don Drysdale, Tiant etc etc etc
Just saying that even though Pedro has had a few impressive years, The "best ever" is hardly his at this time and I persoanlly doubt he will have a long career
Janice
Just saying that even though Pedro has had a few impressive years, The "best ever" is hardly his at this time and I persoanlly doubt he will have a long career
Janice
I suppose everyone will have a different answer depending on what they base "greatness" on. Longest career, lowest ERA, most wins. Everyone has their opinion and maybe I'm a bit biased, but even if you don't think he's THE best, you have to admit he is one of the greatest and will be in the Hall of Fame as long as he is able to continue pitching for many more years. I think he keeps improving and even if he doesn't have his fastball in the 95+ range all the time, he is the master of keeping batters guessing about what's coming. The change-up is unreal.
All that means nothing and you can never use the term "great" for a pitcher until he WINS.I am not talking about regular season games I am talking about bringing his team to the playoffs and getting up there and pulling one great performance after another out of your belly on 3 days rest or whatever it takes for you TEAM to win.(example. Curt Schilling last year).David Cone was a good regular season pitcher but he was a GREAT post season big game pitcher and his team won as a result (1996 yanks down 2 games to none against braves going to Atlanta -- Cone shuts braves down in game 3 and Yanks go on the sweep rest of series to win 4 games to 2).Understand?Pedro is not a proven Winner so he is not a Great pitcher.End of Story.Serena said:
ILoveDR
Show me the STATS!..you aint got any!!
Mickey Lolich 16 year career
W=217 L=191 PCT=0.532 ERA=3.44 IP=3638 H=3366 SO=2832
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=lolicmi01
Curt Schilling 14 year career
W=132 L=101 PCT=0.567 ERA=3.37 IP=2158 H=1924 SO=2032
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=schilcu01
Pedro Martinez 10 year career
W=132 L=59 PCT=0.691 ERA=2.66 IP=1693 H=1262 SO=1981
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=martipe02
If you are going to use facts...then use facts....here they are. I have already posted the stats for Ryan and Carlton. Cant you guys get it through those skulls that Nolan Ryan was a thrower and not a great pitcher?...he never had a great season...check the website i posted...Clemens and RJohnson and the only pitchers in the last 35 years to post the career stats close to what Pedro has...Schilling's 2001 season was his only good one...
Do your research, people...Blyleven?....he was a good pitcher .but he is just over a 0.500 pitcher..
Shit or get off the pot....put up some stats to back up your lame arguments.
If Pedro does not end up being considered a great pitcher, it will be because of his lack of durability.
Mickey Lolich 16 year career
W=217 L=191 PCT=0.532 ERA=3.44 IP=3638 H=3366 SO=2832
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=lolicmi01
Curt Schilling 14 year career
W=132 L=101 PCT=0.567 ERA=3.37 IP=2158 H=1924 SO=2032
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=schilcu01
Pedro Martinez 10 year career
W=132 L=59 PCT=0.691 ERA=2.66 IP=1693 H=1262 SO=1981
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=martipe02
If you are going to use facts...then use facts....here they are. I have already posted the stats for Ryan and Carlton. Cant you guys get it through those skulls that Nolan Ryan was a thrower and not a great pitcher?...he never had a great season...check the website i posted...Clemens and RJohnson and the only pitchers in the last 35 years to post the career stats close to what Pedro has...Schilling's 2001 season was his only good one...
Do your research, people...Blyleven?....he was a good pitcher .but he is just over a 0.500 pitcher..
Shit or get off the pot....put up some stats to back up your lame arguments.
If Pedro does not end up being considered a great pitcher, it will be because of his lack of durability.
Re: Show me the STATS!..you aint got any!!
You didnt read my post.Pedro never won a world series.He is not a proven winner.He plays on a team of losers and as a result he only cares about his personal statistics and that all red sox fans have to cling to.
ILoveDR
Mondo,mondongo said:
You didnt read my post.Pedro never won a world series.He is not a proven winner.He plays on a team of losers and as a result he only cares about his personal statistics and that all red sox fans have to cling to.
ILoveDR
N
Not registered
Guest
Lets play compare stats!
Bert Blyleven has 3701 Career Strikeouts & 4970 innings Pitched. Martinez has 1981 Career Strikeouts and 1693 innings pitched. Do you think that Martinez will ever match those numbers?
Another favorite pitcher of mine was Ferguson Jenkins. In 15 years as a starting pitcher he amassed 7 seasons with 20 or more wins. That is while pitching for the Expos and the Cubs. Pedro Martinez in 9 seasons as a full time starter has amassed the grand total of 1(One!) 20 game season. Do you think he is going to win 20 games the next 6 seasons?
Now lets talk about Lefty!
Steve Carlton:
4136 Strikeouts
329 Wins
5217.3 innings pitched
6 20 win seasons
4 Cy Young Awards
5 times led the league in innings pitched
5 times led the league in Strikeouts
4 times Led the league in Wins
4 times led the league in Games Started
3 times led the league in Complete Games.
Now those are Numbers!!!!!
If Pedro Puts up the same numbers in the next 10 years equal to his first 10 years(Highly doubtful) he will still come up way short in wins, strikeouts and innings pitched compared to Steve Carlton.
You see! I can dig up numbers also.
Tony C.
Bert Blyleven has 3701 Career Strikeouts & 4970 innings Pitched. Martinez has 1981 Career Strikeouts and 1693 innings pitched. Do you think that Martinez will ever match those numbers?
Another favorite pitcher of mine was Ferguson Jenkins. In 15 years as a starting pitcher he amassed 7 seasons with 20 or more wins. That is while pitching for the Expos and the Cubs. Pedro Martinez in 9 seasons as a full time starter has amassed the grand total of 1(One!) 20 game season. Do you think he is going to win 20 games the next 6 seasons?
Now lets talk about Lefty!
Steve Carlton:
4136 Strikeouts
329 Wins
5217.3 innings pitched
6 20 win seasons
4 Cy Young Awards
5 times led the league in innings pitched
5 times led the league in Strikeouts
4 times Led the league in Wins
4 times led the league in Games Started
3 times led the league in Complete Games.
Now those are Numbers!!!!!
If Pedro Puts up the same numbers in the next 10 years equal to his first 10 years(Highly doubtful) he will still come up way short in wins, strikeouts and innings pitched compared to Steve Carlton.
You see! I can dig up numbers also.
Tony C.
Fergie Jenkins
One of the most consistent pitchers in the game.
In 19 years as a starting pitcher he amassed 7 seasons with 20 or more wins, 6 of these were in consecutive seasons (while a Cub), with teams that were not even close to being contenders. In deed a "Hall of Famer(1991)" and "Cy Young Award Winner (1971)".
An unknown fact about Fergies record is that of all his losses 226, 83 were by 1 run, can you imagine if he had a team behind him
Actually a friend of mine who I caught ball for in his implement shed in the late winter and early spring months as he prepared to head for spring training. In fact I played with Fergie after he retired from the Majors.
Fergie is also an annual visitor to the DR each year with his close friend Vida Blue as they go to the great Dominican pitcher Juan Marichal's golf tourney each winter.
And to correct Tony C, Fergie never pitched for the Expos.
Stats.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=jenkife01
One of the most consistent pitchers in the game.
In 19 years as a starting pitcher he amassed 7 seasons with 20 or more wins, 6 of these were in consecutive seasons (while a Cub), with teams that were not even close to being contenders. In deed a "Hall of Famer(1991)" and "Cy Young Award Winner (1971)".
An unknown fact about Fergies record is that of all his losses 226, 83 were by 1 run, can you imagine if he had a team behind him
Actually a friend of mine who I caught ball for in his implement shed in the late winter and early spring months as he prepared to head for spring training. In fact I played with Fergie after he retired from the Majors.
Fergie is also an annual visitor to the DR each year with his close friend Vida Blue as they go to the great Dominican pitcher Juan Marichal's golf tourney each winter.
And to correct Tony C, Fergie never pitched for the Expos.
Stats.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=jenkife01
Pedro is better
Tony,
By your own statistics you showed how Pedro is Better.
"Bert Blyleven has 3701 Career Strikeouts & 4970 innings Pitched. Martinez has 1981 Career Strikeouts and 1693 innings pitched."
This means Bert had a ratio of 0.74 strikeout per inning pitched, while Pedro has a ratio of 1.17 strikeouts per inning pitched. That's about 64% more effective.
When it comes to wins we all know that pitchers nowdays do not pitch as often or as long as they used to, so its' almost impossible to get 20 wins or more in a season. your statistics of game started, games completed, total number of wins and innings pitched have no validity as they cannot be compared to today's pitchers who are usually pulled out after seven innings, who pitch every 5 games instead of four, etc. The only thing that's valid are winning percentage, strikeout ratios, ERA (Pedro's even more impressive as the average ERA has ballooned over the las few years)...maybe number of Cy Youngs (Even this is very subjective), etc...
As we can all see Pedro is way better than all of those pitchers you guys mentioned, when it comes to the things that can be compared apples to apples...
As for Pedro not being a winner...How the hell do you expect him to win a pennant by himself? He can only do so much...If he were with the Yankees, Arizona, or Atlanta he would have more rings than he could wear. Take last year for instance, I recall about 4 times when Pedro pitched, and left the game ahead, sometimes 4-0 and then the relievers would lose it for him. He had hardly any run support...How can you blame him for this? Most players cannot choose where they go...
Give the guy his dues...He's not a big guy like Randy Johnson or Roger Clemens, but can throw in the high 90's, can paint corners like no one can, and has the largest repertoire of any pitcher
...Simply amazing...
On a different note...I predict Alex Rodriguez will break Hank Aaron's record for most home runs ever
Tony,
By your own statistics you showed how Pedro is Better.
"Bert Blyleven has 3701 Career Strikeouts & 4970 innings Pitched. Martinez has 1981 Career Strikeouts and 1693 innings pitched."
This means Bert had a ratio of 0.74 strikeout per inning pitched, while Pedro has a ratio of 1.17 strikeouts per inning pitched. That's about 64% more effective.
When it comes to wins we all know that pitchers nowdays do not pitch as often or as long as they used to, so its' almost impossible to get 20 wins or more in a season. your statistics of game started, games completed, total number of wins and innings pitched have no validity as they cannot be compared to today's pitchers who are usually pulled out after seven innings, who pitch every 5 games instead of four, etc. The only thing that's valid are winning percentage, strikeout ratios, ERA (Pedro's even more impressive as the average ERA has ballooned over the las few years)...maybe number of Cy Youngs (Even this is very subjective), etc...
As we can all see Pedro is way better than all of those pitchers you guys mentioned, when it comes to the things that can be compared apples to apples...
As for Pedro not being a winner...How the hell do you expect him to win a pennant by himself? He can only do so much...If he were with the Yankees, Arizona, or Atlanta he would have more rings than he could wear. Take last year for instance, I recall about 4 times when Pedro pitched, and left the game ahead, sometimes 4-0 and then the relievers would lose it for him. He had hardly any run support...How can you blame him for this? Most players cannot choose where they go...
Give the guy his dues...He's not a big guy like Randy Johnson or Roger Clemens, but can throw in the high 90's, can paint corners like no one can, and has the largest repertoire of any pitcher
...Simply amazing...
On a different note...I predict Alex Rodriguez will break Hank Aaron's record for most home runs ever
Janice,
(Disclaimer: my usage of the term grandmother is generic and is not intended to appy to yours or mine). If all it took for your grandmother to be considered your grandfather is to have grown a beard, then let me posit that your grandmother was not your grandmother to begin with. In order for Janice to go from female to male...will you claim that all it takes is to get a crew cut? Do you already have an overabundance of testosterone? Do you aloready have a penis? Do you already belch and fart at will? Do you already have hair on your back? My point?....If Andy Petit had durability, would he be a hall of famer? Of course not. Durability is ONE of MANY factors that a pitcher needs to be considered great. What I am saying to you is that other than that ONE factor, Pedro domintates in almost EVERY other category.
"You say Schilling is not great? Maybe your statistics don't provide what it is to be great? "
Of course he was great last year. And since that is fresh in our minds, that is all "we" remember. But I thought you said that it takes a lifetime of achievement to be considered great? Look at the stats I gave you. Other than last year, he is just an above average pitcher.
"A measure of a true great pitcher is time, endurance and coming up big. you probably don't recall Ryan during the 70's, pitching 40 games a season, winning 19-20 every year"
hmmm...you must be referring to a Nolan Ryan that pitched in an alternate universe. Nolan Ryan lost almost as many games as he won in an era dominated by pitching. It is more than well recognized that this is the era of the hitter: see how many players now routinely hit 40 HRs...whereas back then hitting only 30 HRswas considered excellent.
Nolan Ryan career stats
W L ERA
1968 Mets 6 9 .400 3.09
1969 Mets 6 3 .667 3.53
1970 Mets 7 11 .389 3.42
1971 Mets 10 14 .417 3.97
1972 Angels 19 16 .543 2.28
1973 Angels 21 16 .568 2.87
1974 Angels 22 16 .579 2.89
1975 Angels 14 12 .538 3.45
1976 Angels 17 18 .486 3.36
1977 Angels 19 16 .543 2.77
1978 Angels 10 13 .435 3.72
1979 Angels 16 14 .533 3.60
1980 Astros 11 10 .524 3.35
1981 Astros 11 5 .688 1.69
1982 Astros 16 12 .571 3.16
1983 Astros 14 9 .609 2.98
1984 Astros 12 11 .522 3.04
1985 Astros 10 12 .455 3.80
1986 Astros 12 8 .600 3.34
1987 Astros 8 16 .333 2.76
1988 Astros 12 11 .522 3.52
1989 Rangers 16 10 .615 3.20
1990 Rangers 13 9 .591 3.44
1991 Rangers 12 6 .667 2.91
1992 Rangers 5 9 .357 3.72
1993 Rangers 5 5 .
(Disclaimer: my usage of the term grandmother is generic and is not intended to appy to yours or mine). If all it took for your grandmother to be considered your grandfather is to have grown a beard, then let me posit that your grandmother was not your grandmother to begin with. In order for Janice to go from female to male...will you claim that all it takes is to get a crew cut? Do you already have an overabundance of testosterone? Do you aloready have a penis? Do you already belch and fart at will? Do you already have hair on your back? My point?....If Andy Petit had durability, would he be a hall of famer? Of course not. Durability is ONE of MANY factors that a pitcher needs to be considered great. What I am saying to you is that other than that ONE factor, Pedro domintates in almost EVERY other category.
"You say Schilling is not great? Maybe your statistics don't provide what it is to be great? "
Of course he was great last year. And since that is fresh in our minds, that is all "we" remember. But I thought you said that it takes a lifetime of achievement to be considered great? Look at the stats I gave you. Other than last year, he is just an above average pitcher.
"A measure of a true great pitcher is time, endurance and coming up big. you probably don't recall Ryan during the 70's, pitching 40 games a season, winning 19-20 every year"
hmmm...you must be referring to a Nolan Ryan that pitched in an alternate universe. Nolan Ryan lost almost as many games as he won in an era dominated by pitching. It is more than well recognized that this is the era of the hitter: see how many players now routinely hit 40 HRs...whereas back then hitting only 30 HRswas considered excellent.
Nolan Ryan career stats
W L ERA
1968 Mets 6 9 .400 3.09
1969 Mets 6 3 .667 3.53
1970 Mets 7 11 .389 3.42
1971 Mets 10 14 .417 3.97
1972 Angels 19 16 .543 2.28
1973 Angels 21 16 .568 2.87
1974 Angels 22 16 .579 2.89
1975 Angels 14 12 .538 3.45
1976 Angels 17 18 .486 3.36
1977 Angels 19 16 .543 2.77
1978 Angels 10 13 .435 3.72
1979 Angels 16 14 .533 3.60
1980 Astros 11 10 .524 3.35
1981 Astros 11 5 .688 1.69
1982 Astros 16 12 .571 3.16
1983 Astros 14 9 .609 2.98
1984 Astros 12 11 .522 3.04
1985 Astros 10 12 .455 3.80
1986 Astros 12 8 .600 3.34
1987 Astros 8 16 .333 2.76
1988 Astros 12 11 .522 3.52
1989 Rangers 16 10 .615 3.20
1990 Rangers 13 9 .591 3.44
1991 Rangers 12 6 .667 2.91
1992 Rangers 5 9 .357 3.72
1993 Rangers 5 5 .
suarezn,
finally .... a thinking's man analysis....you are absolutely correct..the comparisons are only valid when done in percentages: strikeouts/9 innings...ERA...winning percentage...hits/inning.....etc...etc...and as I posted before, Pedro dominates them all...
TonyC: Steve Carlton pitched 24 years....of course his totals are larger than Pedro's....the ONLY way to compare them is to use averages..
finally .... a thinking's man analysis....you are absolutely correct..the comparisons are only valid when done in percentages: strikeouts/9 innings...ERA...winning percentage...hits/inning.....etc...etc...and as I posted before, Pedro dominates them all...
TonyC: Steve Carlton pitched 24 years....of course his totals are larger than Pedro's....the ONLY way to compare them is to use averages..
Mondongo
Funny how you didn't compare Martinez's stats to Carlton's!
I compared Martinez to Blyleven to point out durability. Durability is a important criteria before claiming that anybody is the best ever.
It should be easier for a pitcher to reach 20 wns in a season with all of the specialized bullpen help today. All a Starting pitcher has to do is give 6 good innings.
Pedro martinez has Had the Advantage of playing for Good teams. Not great but at least his teams give him run support. In 1987 Nolan Ryan had a ERA of 2.76 yet went 8 & 16. How does that happen? he played for a crapy team.
Pedro martinez is a great pitcher. Easily in the top 4 of pitchers today....but to say he is the best ever is ridiculous. Wait 10 years then debate.
I will ask you again! If Martinez was not Dominican would you be defending him so much? I really doubt it.
Wud,
I stand corrected. jenkns never did pitch for the expos. I guess I confused the fact because he is Canadian. Go Figure. What is really amazing is that he won 25 games in 1974 pitching for the Texas Ranger.
Tony C.
Funny how you didn't compare Martinez's stats to Carlton's!
I compared Martinez to Blyleven to point out durability. Durability is a important criteria before claiming that anybody is the best ever.
It should be easier for a pitcher to reach 20 wns in a season with all of the specialized bullpen help today. All a Starting pitcher has to do is give 6 good innings.
Pedro martinez has Had the Advantage of playing for Good teams. Not great but at least his teams give him run support. In 1987 Nolan Ryan had a ERA of 2.76 yet went 8 & 16. How does that happen? he played for a crapy team.
Pedro martinez is a great pitcher. Easily in the top 4 of pitchers today....but to say he is the best ever is ridiculous. Wait 10 years then debate.
I will ask you again! If Martinez was not Dominican would you be defending him so much? I really doubt it.
Wud,
I stand corrected. jenkns never did pitch for the expos. I guess I confused the fact because he is Canadian. Go Figure. What is really amazing is that he won 25 games in 1974 pitching for the Texas Ranger.
Tony C.
N
Not registered
Guest
Stats: Ryan v Martinez
Mondogoo
You love to quote "stats" as a measure of greatness, I prefer fan assessment and career achievements, as does the Hall Induction Committee
Pedro is an outstanding pitcher today, his career will ultimately decide if he makes the Hall of Fame, I personally don't think he will endure.
Refute my post WHEN: Pedro receives over 98% of the vote IF he is nominated for the Hall of fame (RYAN received 98.79%)
IF Pedro has his uniform retired by ANY team; RYAN'S was retired by 3, Angels, Astros and Rangers (The only person in MLB history to be so honored)
If Pedro throws over 5,700 strikeouts (Ryan has 5,714, a MLB record)
IF Pedro throws over 7 no hitters, breaking Ryan's record
IF Pedro wins 324 games, breaking Ryan's record
Joke: If Pedro plays for 27 seasons breaking Ryan's record
IF Pedro throws over 100mph, breaking the official MLB record held by Ryan (the ball left Ryan's hand and crossed the plate about 1/3 of a second later, kind of tough to hit)
If and when Pedro sets over 50 MLB records, then and only then will I consider that he is as good as Nolan Ryan, using your method of statistics for "greatness"
Mondogoo
You love to quote "stats" as a measure of greatness, I prefer fan assessment and career achievements, as does the Hall Induction Committee
Pedro is an outstanding pitcher today, his career will ultimately decide if he makes the Hall of Fame, I personally don't think he will endure.
Refute my post WHEN: Pedro receives over 98% of the vote IF he is nominated for the Hall of fame (RYAN received 98.79%)
IF Pedro has his uniform retired by ANY team; RYAN'S was retired by 3, Angels, Astros and Rangers (The only person in MLB history to be so honored)
If Pedro throws over 5,700 strikeouts (Ryan has 5,714, a MLB record)
IF Pedro throws over 7 no hitters, breaking Ryan's record
IF Pedro wins 324 games, breaking Ryan's record
Joke: If Pedro plays for 27 seasons breaking Ryan's record
IF Pedro throws over 100mph, breaking the official MLB record held by Ryan (the ball left Ryan's hand and crossed the plate about 1/3 of a second later, kind of tough to hit)
If and when Pedro sets over 50 MLB records, then and only then will I consider that he is as good as Nolan Ryan, using your method of statistics for "greatness"
Statistics only have value when you are comparing "Apples" to "Apples"
and "Oranges" to "Oranges",and over the same conditions!The pitcher from the beginnings of the "Big Leagues" until 15 or 20 years ago went to the mound with the idea in mind that they wanted to pitch a complete game,and be the winner!They hated to give up the ball if the manager came out to change pitchers.Then came the age of the "late" relief pitcher.Then the "middle relief" pitcher,the "short" reliever,and countless other "specialists"!What pitcher of today is going to run away with the "Copmplete Games Pitched" title?How may "Wins" will the "Middle" relief pitcher put up?There are a few "Good" pitchers working today,less "Great" pitchers,and "Too" many with loosing records making "millions" per season,just for showing up and taking the mound for 2 or 3 innings every few days.Baseball pretty much "sucks" except for a few games between old "Rivals" like the "Yankees" and Boston, some play off, and of course the "Series"! The "Strike" talks,and the "Great Finish" to this years ,I hate to say,"ALL" star game, should give you an idea where the player values lie!CRISCO
and "Oranges" to "Oranges",and over the same conditions!The pitcher from the beginnings of the "Big Leagues" until 15 or 20 years ago went to the mound with the idea in mind that they wanted to pitch a complete game,and be the winner!They hated to give up the ball if the manager came out to change pitchers.Then came the age of the "late" relief pitcher.Then the "middle relief" pitcher,the "short" reliever,and countless other "specialists"!What pitcher of today is going to run away with the "Copmplete Games Pitched" title?How may "Wins" will the "Middle" relief pitcher put up?There are a few "Good" pitchers working today,less "Great" pitchers,and "Too" many with loosing records making "millions" per season,just for showing up and taking the mound for 2 or 3 innings every few days.Baseball pretty much "sucks" except for a few games between old "Rivals" like the "Yankees" and Boston, some play off, and of course the "Series"! The "Strike" talks,and the "Great Finish" to this years ,I hate to say,"ALL" star game, should give you an idea where the player values lie!CRISCO